Allison McMahon

Title
Counsel
Organization / Affiliation
Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC)

Allison McMahon spoke 163 times across 1 day of testimony.

  1. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Yes, Allison McMahon, Commission Counsel, and our next witness is Paul Leschied.

    19-146-02

  2. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And, Commissioner, Mr. Leschied's counsel is appearing virtually and would like to briefly address the Commission.

    19-146-14

  3. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Thank you very much.

    19-147-19

  4. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Mr. Leschied, you were interviewed by Commission Counsel on October 4th; is that correct?

    19-147-21

  5. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And, Mr. Registrar, if we could please pull up WTS00000049? Mr. Leschied, is that the -- a summary of the interview?

    19-147-25

  6. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And have you had an opportunity to review this summary?

    19-148-02

  7. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And do you have any corrections to it?

    19-148-05

  8. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Then we'll ask that it be entered as an exhibit. Mr. Leschied, you live in McGregor, Ontario; is that right?

    19-148-08

  9. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And that's about 15 kilometres from downtown Windsor?

    19-148-13

  10. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And what do you do for a living?

    19-148-17

  11. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And have you been a life-long resident of the Essex County area?

    19-148-21

  12. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And can you please tell the Commissioner about how you became involved with protests against COVID-19 public health mandates?

    19-148-27

  13. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And can you tell us about those protests?

    19-149-13

  14. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And are those the sort of weekly rallies that would take place starting in September ---

    19-149-21

  15. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And how would you typically hear about protests that you would attend or fundraisers or rallies?

    19-149-28

  16. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And would you post about it on social media or sort of join -- did you join any groups related to ---

    19-150-09

  17. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you weren't part of any sort of formal organizations?

    19-150-15

  18. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And a loose organization in the sense of just you have this network of friends who ---

    19-150-21

  19. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    M'hm.

    19-150-27

  20. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And did you help plan any of these rallies or ---

    19-151-01

  21. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I understand that in January 2022, and continuing into early February, there were slow roll protests on Huron Church Avenue. Is that right?

    19-151-10

  22. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And were you aware of those protests?

    19-151-14

  23. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you participate in them?

    19-151-17

  24. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Like attend them in any way or anything like that?

    19-151-20

  25. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And were you at that time following what was happening in Ottawa with the Freedom Convoy?

    19-151-23

  26. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And how were you monitoring that? Was it through social media, through traditional media?

    19-151-27

  27. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And we'll come back to that. But you didn't participate in any of the events in Ottawa did you?

    19-152-05

  28. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So the blockade starts -- at the Ambassador Bridge starts on February 7th as I understand it. In the days leading up to that, were you aware that there might a protest in that area?

    19-152-09

  29. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So we have heard evidence over the last day-and-a-half that there were social media posts about a slow roll and potential blockade. But that was not something that you saw?

    19-152-14

  30. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Was a blockade of the Ambassador Bridge something that you had heard rumours about?

    19-152-23

  31. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you attended the blockade for the first time on the evening of February 7th; is that right?

    19-153-01

  32. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And around what time would you have arrived?

    19-153-05

  33. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And for the rest of the week would you typically attend around the same time?

    19-153-08

  34. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so on that first evening, on February 7th, where were the protesters located?

    19-153-14

  35. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And Mr. Registrar, could we please pull up the map of Windsor, just so that we can see where that is? And so as I understand it, the egress point, as you referred to it, is north of College on Huron Church; is that right?

    19-153-20

  36. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So would that be in the vicinity of that purple icon?

    19-153-27

  37. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And Girardot, that's down the -- that's ---

    19-154-03

  38. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And that's about halfway between College and Tecumseh?

    19-154-10

  39. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so when you arrived at the protest that night, were vehicles blocking the intersection?

    19-154-13

  40. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so were they driving down Girardot, I'm sorry I'm going to butcher that street name - --

    19-154-18

  41. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- or were they driving down Huron Church?

    19-154-22

  42. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And approximately how many vehicles were blocking the intersection?

    19-154-28

  43. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you participate in that blockade?

    19-155-03

  44. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so then you walked in?

    19-155-07

  45. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And were there -- were most people in their cars or were they on foot?

    19-155-09

  46. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Roughly how many other protesters were...

    19-155-14

  47. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    They were standing in the intersection, on the sidewalks?

    19-155-18

  48. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And were there police present?

    19-155-22

  49. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    What were they doing?

    19-155-25

  50. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And had they set up blockades anywhere?

    19-156-01

  51. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And that's on February the 7th?

    19-156-07

  52. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And yesterday we saw evidence that protesters had started setting up a camp on the first night and had told police that they were staying put and not moving. Is that someth8ing that you observed?

    19-156-10

  53. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you weren't at College Street, for example?

    19-156-17

  54. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And you didn't sort of walk by there when you were ---

    19-156-20

  55. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And was your impression that they were backed up because of the blockade at Girardot?

    19-156-27

  56. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And what time did you leave the protest on that first night?

    19-157-02

  57. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you expect that the protesters would stay overnight?

    19-157-06

  58. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So while you were there you hadn't discussed with anybody that they might stay there overnight?

    19-157-12

  59. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you attended the protest again the next night; is that right?

    19-157-22

  60. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And was that friend somebody who had stayed overnight at the protest?

    19-158-01

  61. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you know any of the people who were in the trucks blocking the intersection that night?

    19-158-04

  62. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so on the second night, the protest is more centrally located at College Street. Were the lanes all blocked in every direction on, excuse me, was Huron Church blocked in both directions?

    19-158-10

  63. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So all four points of the intersection were blocked off by police vehicles?

    19-158-21

  64. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And approximately how many protesters were there that night?

    19-159-02

  65. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Both.

    19-159-05

  66. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did the crowd dynamic change as things got later?

    19-159-10

  67. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And could you describe what the atmosphere was like when you attended the protests?

    19-159-19

  68. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you talk to other protestors about their reasons for being there?

    19-159-27

  69. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    But there were personal vehicles there as well, ---

    19-160-08

  70. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- and individuals who weren’t ---

    19-160-11

  71. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- truck drivers?

    19-160-14

  72. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did they have different goals?

    19-160-16

  73. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    M’hm.

    19-160-21

  74. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And on the Tuesday, what was the police presence like?

    19-160-25

  75. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you have -- did you interact with any of the police officers?

    19-161-05

  76. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And did -- were they telling you anything about your right to be there or encouraging you to leave? Anything like that?

    19-161-11

  77. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So they weren’t advising you that you had to leave or be arrested?

    19-161-20

  78. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And were there more barricades on this night than there had been the previous night or was it pretty consistent?

    19-161-23

  79. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I understand from your interview summary that some protestor vehicles were able to come and go from the protest area?

    19-162-06

  80. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And how did that work, if there were the wooden barriers and cruisers stationed along the intersections?

    19-162-10

  81. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you see any other cooperation between the police and protestors?

    19-162-26

  82. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So something that you were aware of, but ---

    19-163-10

  83. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Mr. Commissioner, I just want to say for the record, the map that I referred to earlier is Doc ID COM00000930. And that’s a screenshot of the same map that was shown to you yesterday and a link for which was circulated to the parties yesterday. I just wanted to clarify that point. Now, on Wednesday night, were protestors still at College?

    19-163-17

  84. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And were there also additional protest sites?

    19-163-26

  85. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And just referring back to the map, Wyandotte is where there’s an entry to the Ambassador Bridge Port of Entry ---

    19-164-08

  86. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And was that -- to your knowledge, was that intersection completely blocked?

    19-164-14

  87. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    The Wyandotte.

    19-164-18

  88. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you -- were you aware of who was engaging in negotiations over things like emergency lanes?

    19-164-26

  89. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so at this point, was any traffic able to enter or exit the bridge?

    19-165-04

  90. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Were there also vehicles at the -- or protestors, excuse me, at the Tecumseh Road intersection?

    19-165-17

  91. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And what was the crowd like, relative to the previous nights?

    19-165-23

  92. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Yes.

    19-165-27

  93. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Sort of a party-like atmosphere, or?

    19-166-05

  94. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And were people drinking alcohol?

    19-166-10

  95. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    You didn’t see anyone drinking? Okay. Or using drugs?

    19-166-13

  96. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And what was the police presence like on Wednesday night?

    19-166-16

  97. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And it looked to you like they were not Windsor Police officers?

    19-167-01

  98. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So moving to Thursday night; in your witness statement you said that the police started to encourage protestors to leave the area; is that correct?

    19-167-07

  99. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. It was on Friday. And was -- that was a change in messaging from what you’d heard previously from police?

    19-167-14

  100. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And how did the protestors react to that message?

    19-167-18

  101. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And what would some level of achievement be?

    19-167-25

  102. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did it feel like the protestors were united on that point; or did people have different motivations and ---

    19-168-06

  103. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    But there wasn’t sort of a formal list of demands that you were aware of?

    19-168-14

  104. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And before Friday night did you believe that the protest was lawful, and you could remain there without fear of arrest?

    19-168-17

  105. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And on Friday did that change?

    19-168-21

  106. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    What did you understand about the injunction that night?

    19-169-01

  107. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. But you knew it had been granted?

    19-169-04

  108. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    If I could please pull up WPS -- I believe it’s seven zeros 49. And it’ll be page 16. This is an affidavit that was filed in the injunction proceedings. And on page 16 there is a message to demonstrators, which I understand was distributed by the Windsor Police Service on February 11th. And you can see on the screen that it says: “The Windsor Police Service wants to make demonstrators clearly aware that it is a criminal offence to obstruct, interrupt or interfere with the lawful use, enjoyment, or operation of property. The offense itself is known [to] mischief [of] property. The unlawful act of blocking streets at and near the Ambassador Bridge is resulting in people being denied the lawful use, enjoyment and operation of their property and causing businesses to close down. We are providing notice that anyone blocking streets or assisting others in the blocking of streets may be committing a criminal offence and must immediately cease further unlawful activity or you may face charges. You could be arrested if you are a party to the offence or assisting others in the direct or indirect commission of this offence.” Is this something that you saw while you were at the protests?

    19-169-09

  109. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you see it at any point?

    19-170-14

  110. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Is it consistent with what you were being told by the Windsor Police Service that night?

    19-170-17

  111. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So you weren’t aware that you might be charged with mischief, for example?

    19-170-21

  112. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. I understand that Friday was the last day that you attended the protests, is that right?

    19-170-24

  113. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And why was that?

    19-170-28

  114. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And on the Friday, Ontario declared a state of emergency; were you aware of that?

    19-171-09

  115. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did that influence your decision to leave the protest?

    19-171-13

  116. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And that brings up the issue of media coverage, which is something that you spoke about in your interview summary. Did you feel that the media coverage of the protest was generally accurate?

    19-171-21

  117. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And how was it being painted?

    19-172-03

  118. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And in -- was there any information about the effect of the blockade that you felt was inaccurate, in terms of the kind of economic impact on ---

    19-172-15

  119. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So it was just sort of the images that you were seeing didn’t reflect what you were ---

    19-172-21

  120. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I’m going to go briefly back to the State of Emergency that was declared on February 11th -- effective on the 12th, midnight of the 12th. If we could go back to WPS000000049, please? And page 19. So this is another flyer that I understand was distributed on the 11th. Is this something that you saw?

    19-173-01

  121. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, I'd like to ask you about sort of the organization of the protest and the leadership, which is the man that we've already touched on a little bit. But your evidence earlier was that you weren’t aware of any formal plan around the protest; am I getting that right?

    19-173-09

  122. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so you don’t know who started it or how they disseminated the message to go to Huron Church and ---

    19-173-17

  123. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Giradot? Okay. So to the best of your knowledge, it just came together kind of organically?

    19-173-21

  124. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you observe anyone who appeared to be speaking on behalf of protesters to police?

    19-173-26

  125. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So as far as you were aware, police were sort of just interacting with protesters?

    19-174-01

  126. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So when you say that there were groups that they would be engaging with, do you just mean that on a given day, that you might see them talking to a particular group of people, but the next day you'd see them talking to someone else?

    19-174-07

  127. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So there was no consistency in who was ---

    19-174-13

  128. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you have a sense that the protest would have ended at some point if the police hadn’t intervened, or was it the police intervention that brought it to an end?

    19-174-19

  129. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    But at that point on Friday when you left, there was no sort of sense that everyone was going to start packing up and leaving?

    19-174-26

  130. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Now, something that you mentioned earlier was that some people at the protest felt that they wanted to talk to somebody in government; is that right?

    19-175-02

  131. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so -- and I know that this is something that you had mentioned in your interview summary as well, is that you felt like politicians were refusing to kind of engage with the protesters and hear them out; is that true?

    19-175-13

  132. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So as apart from the protesters generally, for you personally, was it a goal to have a politician come and speak to you or acknowledge the protest?

    19-175-20

  133. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Could we please pull up ONT00000858? This -- if you could scroll down a bit -- keep going a little bit more -- thank you. This is a letter from the solicitor general of Ontario, Sylvia Jones, to the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police, which is dated February 11th. And it states: "This letter is being sent regarding the protest activity occurring in Windsor and restricting access to the Ambassador Bridge, which must end. The Government of Ontario is proposing that a meeting occur within an agreeable time period between a select group of protest leadership and representatives of the province to allow their issues to be heard. To move forward with our offer to schedule a meeting, all protesters must leave the protest site immediately, denounce all unlawful activity, and encourage a period of quiet. This means no unlawful, unpeaceful, unsafe protest activity to occur between the time of acceptance of this offer until the meeting takes place." Have you ever seen this letter before?

    19-175-25

  134. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So it's not something that you -- was shared with you on the 11th?

    19-176-25

  135. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Was the offer set out in this letter something that you think you would have been interested in?

    19-176-28

  136. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Why is that?

    19-177-04

  137. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so you don’t think that other protesters would have wanted to do -- to accept this offer of a ---

    19-177-09

  138. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Were you in contact with anyone involved in the Ottawa protests?

    19-177-15

  139. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And were these friends from Windsor Essex County area?

    19-177-20

  140. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Were they involved in the leadership of the ---

    19-177-23

  141. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- Ottawa protest? They were just protesters joining the movement?

    19-177-26

  142. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you -- were you in touch with anyone who was in the leadership of the Ottawa protests?

    19-178-03

  143. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    For example, this Commission has heard from Chris Barber.

    19-178-08

  144. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Pat King?

    19-178-11

  145. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And when you say you asked if there any sort of connection, was this -- were you asking for support or was this ---

    19-178-16

  146. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- is there an existing - --

    19-178-20

  147. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Can you tell us about the rumours that you were hearing about the connection?

    19-178-28

  148. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And so besides Pat King, were you in touch with somebody like Tamara Lich?

    19-179-05

  149. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    James Bauder?

    19-179-08

  150. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Any other person who sort of identified as a figure -- a leadership figure within the ---

    19-179-10

  151. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- convoy movement?

    19-179-13

  152. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Was disrupting cross-border trade one of the reasons that protesters decided to blockade the bridge specifically?

    19-179-15

  153. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you think that that was the reason that the bridge was a good location ---

    19-179-20

  154. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    --- for protests?

    19-179-23

  155. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Now, we heard evidence yesterday about children present at the protest. Is that something that you saw?

    19-179-28

  156. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Did you ever hear anyone suggest that children could be used as human shields?

    19-180-07

  157. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And after the blockade ended, after that first -- after the weekend where the police cleared out the protest on the 12th and the 13th, were you aware of any discussion about doing another protest at the bridge?

    19-180-10

  158. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    So there was -- you never heard of the slogan "Taking back the bridge" while the police were kind of busy in Ottawa?

    19-180-15

  159. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    On social media? Never saw that?

    19-180-19

  160. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    And was there -- there was no discussion of re-establishing the blockade after the injunction expired?

    19-180-22

  161. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think is important for the Commissioner to know?

    19-180-26

  162. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    Those are my questions.

    19-181-03

  163. Allison McMahon, Counsel (POEC)

    No, there’s no re- examination. Thank you.

    19-217-14