Gabriel Poliquin

Title
Senior Counsel
Organization / Affiliation
Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC)

Gabriel Poliquin spoke 74 times across 1 day of testimony.

  1. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Bonjours. Call Mario Di Tommaso to the stand, please.

    20-081-01

  2. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Good morning, Mr. Di Tommaso.

    20-081-16

  3. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And for the record, my name is Gabriel Poliquin, senior counsel to the Commission. We just a have a few little points of business here. If we could pull up the document WTS00000041, please? While that's being brought up, you sat down with us, Mr. Di Tommaso, in September for an interview and you produced an interview summary, which I believe you and your counsel have had the opportunity to review; is that correct?

    20-081-19

  4. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Are there any changes you would like to bring to the interview summary today?

    20-081-28

  5. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So we'll enter the summary into evidence. The next documents I'll refer to, I don't think it's necessary to put them up, the first one is AFF000000114 -- or 14, for the record, and the second one being ONT.IR.00000001, which is -- the first one is the affidavit that you swore advising on behalf of the province, the Ontario's institutional report, which is the second document, but that document is accurate and complete; is that correct?

    20-082-03

  6. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. We will enter those into evidence as well. So, Mr. Di Tommaso, you're, of course, the Deputy Solicitor General for Ontario?

    20-082-13

  7. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Yeah.

    20-082-19

  8. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    That's fine with me.

    20-082-24

  9. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Indeed. We'll be discussing lots of dates and so ---

    20-082-26

  10. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    --- orienting yourself in time I think is probably advisable. So, yes, just to -- to start over, your position, of course, is Deputy Solicitor General for Ontario; correct?

    20-083-01

  11. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And are you the only Deputy Solicitor General?

    20-083-06

  12. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And only the corrections portfolio?

    20-083-11

  13. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And that was your position at the time of the events that are of interest in this Commission; correct?

    20-083-14

  14. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    January/February 2022?

    20-083-18

  15. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now just to set the table, if you could give us an understanding of the role of the Solicitor General as a government department within the Province of Ontario, the Government of Ontario.

    20-083-20

  16. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. I was getting to that. And so as part of your responsibilities, would you describe it as your -- a responsibility of oversight on the OPP that you would have?

    20-084-06

  17. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And yeah, we’ll get to that in detail in a sec. And the Solicitor General’s responsibility under the Police Services Act includes, to monitor police forces to ensure that adequate and effective police services are provided at the municipal and provincial levels; you would agree with that?

    20-084-14

  18. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    That’s correct. And, of course, that extends for the whole province of Ontario; correct?

    20-084-23

  19. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And when we talk about responsibilities of oversight, and here I understand that there’s a difference between the Solicitor General as a government department and your responsibilities, but when we talk about oversight of the OPP, what does that include?

    20-084-26

  20. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And we’ll get to specific examples, of course, of this when we get down to the facts, but just to clear something up, when you say expanding the size or the -- the size of the OPP; are we talking about the size of the OPP as a whole, or the size of the OPP deployed in a specific location?

    20-085-13

  21. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Okay, so just to summarize, is it fair to say that the kinds of decisions that your -- are in your jurisdiction; and forgive me if I use your in a broad sense, I realize that there -- the responsibilities are the jurisdiction of the Solicitor General, and you’re in charge of implementing those responsibilities on a day-to-day basis. But the sorts of decisions that are under your jurisdiction are when human resources need to be expanded, that has an impact, of course, on the public purse, as it were. This is where you come in; is that correct?

    20-085-28

  22. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And decisions that are under the jurisdiction of the Commissioner of the OPP are related to operations; is that correct?

    20-086-12

  23. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, during the events of January and February 2022, what were your -- how were your responsibilities implemented?

    20-086-17

  24. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    So just following up on a point here; you were informed that the plan was to have the convoy protestors parked elsewhere out of downtown and then bused in. So when did that information come to your knowledge?

    20-087-15

  25. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I’m -- wasn’t looking for an exact date but, you know -- so it was before the protest ---

    20-087-21

  26. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    --- happened? Okay. And you were informed of that by Comm. Carrique?

    20-087-25

  27. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And do you know where he got that information from?

    20-087-28

  28. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so before the protest happened, before that first weekend, you said you were comforted that there was some sort of plan; is that fair?

    20-088-06

  29. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, throughout this period how often were you briefed by Comm. Carrique?

    20-088-10

  30. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. You had daily phone calls. And were you communicating with him by text as well, is my understanding?

    20-088-16

  31. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And we’ll look at -- you took extensive notes throughout that period; correct?

    20-088-20

  32. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So we’ll be looking at some of those notes and some of those texts to unpack what you were receiving during those briefings. Now, did the Solicitor General, Solicitor General Jones, participate in some of these briefings?

    20-088-23

  33. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. At no point?

    20-089-02

  34. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, how often did you brief Minister Jones?

    20-089-04

  35. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    A regular basis being every day, or...?

    20-089-07

  36. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And did you have any phone calls with her as well?

    20-089-12

  37. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, would you say your briefings from Comm. Carrique were the only source of information you had about what was going on in Ottawa?

    20-089-15

  38. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Now, would it be fair to say they were your main source of information?

    20-089-19

  39. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. What were your other sources of information as to what was going on on the ground?

    20-089-22

  40. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you mentioned the Provincial Security Advisor; who is that and what are their responsibilities?

    20-090-01

  41. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And is it fair to say that you are the person in charge of informing the Solicitor General of what’s going on in the province, from a security standpoint?

    20-090-12

  42. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And is it fair to say that it’s the Solicitor General’s responsibility to brief and inform Premier Ford?

    20-090-17

  43. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And that is -- and to your knowledge, is that Premier Ford’s main source of information, in terms of public safety in the province?

    20-090-21

  44. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, did you have any briefings from Chief Sloly during this period?

    20-090-26

  45. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Right. And we’ll get some -- to some of those discussions, but you didn’t have the same relationship with Chief Sloly as you had with Comm. Carrique?

    20-091-02

  46. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Right. And my understanding is, of course, the Chief of Police of Ottawa reports to the Ottawa Police Services Board; is that right?

    20-091-10

  47. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now -- and we'll get to more details later on, but as a general matter, if you have significant concerns with the way a Police Chief in the province managed a situation, could you pick up the phone and call that Chief of Police and let them know what your concerns are?

    20-091-14

  48. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And in what circumstances would you pick up the phone and let them know your concerns?

    20-091-23

  49. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    I suppose let me put the question this way. So, of course, I understand that Chief of Police reports to the OPS but suppose a Police Services Board were to talk to you and say, "We have concerns about our Chief," would that be an opportunity for you to express your concerns directly to the Police Chief, or is that just not done?

    20-092-01

  50. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Why is that?

    20-092-12

  51. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now turning to Windsor, did you have any regular contact with Windsor Police Service Chief Pat Mizuno?

    20-092-17

  52. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now turning to some dates here and we'll start chronologically with the first weekend. Before the convoy made it to Ottawa, you already had some information that they were coming and you -- we'd established that you were comforted that there was some kind of plan to deal with the situation. Did you have any concerns for that first weekend?

    20-092-21

  53. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Yes, and we'll get into that first weekend in more detail. But before the weekend began, I take it your expectations would -- given the experience of the Police Service, given the leadership that your expectations were that was this going to be a passing event, a short-lived event?

    20-093-15

  54. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And that information, that conflicting information was before the weekend started?

    20-093-28

  55. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And the fact that there was conflicting information, did that raise any concerns with you that the risk assessment might not be correct, or did you have any misgivings at that point?

    20-094-04

  56. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now what changed after that first weekend?

    20-094-11

  57. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And you said that at first you were comforted by the fact that there was a plan that they would not be entrenched downtown, and once they were entrenched downtown, did that surprise you?

    20-094-20

  58. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And did you get any answers to that question at the time?

    20-095-01

  59. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so, at that point, that first weekend, the protestors are entrenched downtown. What were the public safety risks in Ottawa at that point, from your perspective?

    20-095-04

  60. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    And when you say you didn't hear about it, do you mean you didn't hear about it from Commissioner Carrique?

    20-095-18

  61. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. If we could bring up the first text, it's ONT00005311, please? So these are texts exchanged between you and Mr. -- or Commissioner Carrique. Thomas TC is Thomas Carrique; correct?

    20-095-22

  62. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. If we could just scroll down a little bit, I'm not sure if there's an answer from you, but do you recognise this text?

    20-095-28

  63. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so if we could just start from the top, please? So in point form he reports, "Road services and heavy equipment have been utilized to maintain emergency routes. - OPS parking remaining convoy vehicles on Sir John A MacDonald Parkway. Roadway almost at capacity. - Downtown remains gridlocked."

    20-096-04

  64. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Oh, sorry.

    20-096-14

  65. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    I'm sorry.

    20-096-16

  66. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    "Downtown remains gridlocked. Vehicle traffic is not feasible." If you could scroll down? And if you look at the second point, "Crowd continues to grow but remains calm. Crowds estimated to be 1,000 at Parliament Hill and another 1500-2000 within the streets. - PPS reported no major issues." And I believe it says further down that -- or that maybe the next text, but we can go to that later. Is it fair to say that this text, this -- which is a situational report, and informal, but a situational report, that the news can be characterised as being everything's under control. Is that a fair ---

    20-096-18

  67. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could turn to the next text at ONT00005316, please?

    20-097-07

  68. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Correct. I believe that's the continuation of that text chain. Starts with, "Crowd diminished overnight but remained in good spirits." Again, "PPS/OPS reported no major issues..." And other pieces of information." Again, is it fair to say that, from your perspective, everything's under control?

    20-097-10

  69. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And we’ll turn to maybe one or two more texts. The next one is ONT00005319, please. So here’s a piece of news that’s a bit more concerning, perhaps. “Protestors appear to be more aggressive and confrontational with police today compared to previous.” There are: “…several vehicles attempting to circumvent roadblocks.” If we could scroll down? And we see that: “…a convoy 50km in length may be headed to Ottawa - Convoy is unconfirmed.” I don’t know if that changes anything from your perspective of things being under control?

    20-097-21

  70. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    If we could scroll up? I think it’s January 31st. Oh, we don’t have the date. I believe on the previous one it said January 31st, and this is the continuation of that text.

    20-098-10

  71. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    20-098-20

  72. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So it would be fair to characterize it this way, that there are issues going on in Ottawa that of course require law enforcement to intervene, but there are no issues with law enforcement at that point, from your perspective?

    20-098-23

  73. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Now, on February 3rd, you have a call with Rob Stewart, who at the time was the Deputy Minister of Public Safety Canada. Do you recall that phone call?

    20-099-01

  74. Gabriel Poliquin, Senior Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And we’ll turn to your notes for that one, just to jog your memory, if you need to. That’s ONT00005153, please. Part of it is redacted. If we could go down to -- just scroll down, please. Okay. So you have a phone call at 1300 hours, I think, with Deputy Minister Rob Stewart. He says that there are 300 commercial -- CMV. That’s commercial vehicles?

    20-099-06