Robert Drummond – Interventions

It was to oversee the two units and oversee their operations and whatever logistical requirements they had as well. And I had the lead for both sections reporting in to me, Michel Marin from the POU unit and John Ferguson from PLT.

10-176-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. And to also coordinate with the Event Commander, Mark Patterson.

10-176-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Superintendent Mark Patterson.

10-176-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-177-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-177-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-177-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. Superintendent Patterson.

10-178-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-178-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, from John Ferguson, from Staff Sergeant John Ferguson.

10-178-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. I don't know if it was necessarily defined at that point as Rideau and Sussex, but he -- the request was to meet with a City official in exchange to try to help move some trucks out of the area.

10-179-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-179-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-179-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They wanted to be closer to Parliament Hill, and it also, from our perspective, would've helped shrink the footprint and open up that road.

10-179-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It's a main artery in the City of Ottawa at Rideau and Sussex. It's the main access, it's a bus route, it's a emergency access for emergency vehicles, it's access to the Rideau Centre. It was a main area that we wanted to try get opened up. But equally, there were lots of other areas that we wanted to get opened up as well. Our goal was to try to help them move, and by reducing the footprint that would also help us.

10-179-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. I mean, ultimately, we wanted people to leave and to vacate those roads period, but in the meantime, as part of a negotiation strategy to try to reduce the footprint, yes we were interested in moving them.

10-180-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-180-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-180-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-180-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, it was also a negotiating strategy and a good faith move to negotiate with them.

10-180-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, we were continuously communicating. They might have been referring to the group specifically at Rideau and Sussex, there were challenges with that group, but the PLT group still went daily to talk to them.

10-181-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

And we talked to all, like we talked to as many groups as we possibly could during that time period.

10-181-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-181-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-181-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-182-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He's a doctor with the -- works in the OPP Behavioural Science Unit.

10-182-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-182-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe he has a private practice as well, but he works for -- he does work with the OPP.

10-182-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

M'hm.

10-183-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think was a win in the sense that we were acting in good faith to move forward with negotiations. So if we -- like if we didn't assist them with negotiations it wasn't a win for either side. Like PLT is used to try and bring both sides together to come to a solution, and that's what we were working on there. I don't know the specifics, I didn't speak to Dr. Collins at that point myself.

10-183-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I did run into Dr. Collins during the protest, but not specifically about this.

10-183-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-183-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-183-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-184-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't recall Staff Sergeant Ferguson telling me at that point about Dr. Collins. He may have, I just don't recall.

10-184-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think it was a positive thing, yes. It was a positive thing to move forward with the negotiations, yes.

10-184-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I think prior to that there had been a number of scenarios with PLT where they had not been able to move forward due to various reasons, and I think this was something they wanted to show good faith and move forward on an agreement with, with the protesters.

10-184-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't know if I would've referred to it as a exit strategy, it was a meeting to discuss options for them to move out of certain areas.

10-185-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-185-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-185-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-185-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-185-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-185-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-186-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. I personally didn't contact PPS at that point, but we did have a PPS representative at the NCRCC.

10-186-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The 8th? No. Later that week, yes.

10-186-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I do. I do see that.

10-187-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There were a lot of emails during that time period. I don’t remember that specific one. But if there is an email, I don’t doubt it may have occurred.

10-187-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I just remember it being later with Supt. Larry Brookson reaching out and speaking to us, closer to the day that we did the moving. But there may have been an email at that point. Like I -- like I said, it may have come through the NCRCC and then come back by email.

10-187-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Is there -- is there an email specifically?

10-187-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The ones I -- the ones I do remember were about more vehicles being on Wellington, closer to Parliament Hill. They were not in favour of that. But I -- I’ll be honest, I remember that happening later in the week; I don’t remember it that day but, I could be wrong about that. Maybe it was that day.

10-188-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-188-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t think they wanted more of them there. They were concerned about having more vehicles close up to Parliament Hill.

10-188-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They were not -- they were not interested in having more protestors closer to the Hill.

10-188-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Because they’d been there for some period of time. We were trying to shrink the footprint; that may not have met up with their -- you know, their goals at that point.

10-189-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t -- I don’t remember this email that you’re referring to, so I’d have to look at the email to know what was written in it.

10-189-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-189-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Yeah.

10-189-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, they had concerns about protestors, period, being close to the Hill. All of those issues were security concerns for them.

10-189-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-189-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s what I was told by John Ferguson.

10-189-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t -- I have no information that that occurred and I know from the PLT members that I spoke to, we don’t know who he’s referring to.

10-190-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No. I know that Sgt. Li Fung (phonetic) didn’t participate in that meeting. So I don’t know who Steve Kanellakos is referring to.

10-190-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think there may be a mistake on that part.

10-190-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I’m not sure what to tell you.

10-190-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-190-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-191-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s what was reported back to me by John Ferguson, and we ultimately didn’t see any movement at the intersection either.

10-191-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That particular group didn’t want to move, ultimately. I don’t think that Mr. Marazzo was successful in negotiating with them to leave.

10-191-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That group was maybe not aligned with all of the other convoy protesters. I think there were differences in their goals or their values. I know that Tom Marazzo went there to speak to them. I think he was hopeful that he could get them to move, and unfortunately, he wasn’t successful.

10-191-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-191-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, at that point we had been negotiating to do that. But ultimately, if he had been able to get them to move, and at that point I think we would try to see if we could get them to move. We hoped that some of them would leave, not just move to Wellington, but some of them would leave. So there were groups sort of behind, or east of that location that we believed wanted to leave but were effectively boxed in.

10-192-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

If we had been -- if he had been able to get permission -- if they had -- sorry; if they had agreed to move, we would have had a discussion about getting them -- see if we could have gotten them to move.

10-192-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-192-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

On that particular day?

10-192-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think we felt that we -- they could move and then we -- I followed up with Command later, and they weren’t in agreement.

10-192-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-193-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-193-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s John and I speaking about that move, and we had hoped that some people would leave on their own. That didn’t pan out. And then ultimately, I think -- I believe I had a conversation at that point, and it wasn’t approved for them to move further west -- yes, further west.

10-193-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-194-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That changed during that conversation. At the beginning we had had a conversation where I did believe that they were going to leave, but then ultimately, I learned afterwards that it was about negotiating, just moving up the street, on Wellington. And then ultimately, that didn’t get approved.

10-194-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Sorry; I should have clarified that that changed during that conversation.

10-194-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

In the beginning yes, but then that changed, and then we didn’t have approval for that.

10-194-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, that’s the -- this is the ongoing PLT relationship with working with just both sides, trying to come to a mutual agreement. And this is one of the areas where we were, you know -- I think this was also a communication gap as well, about what was understood, and we were trying to get -- we were also hoping that people would leave, and that didn’t occur. And there may have been a miscommunication with -- between us and Tom Marazzo about what we understood was happening.

10-194-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-195-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-195-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-195-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I can’t -- I don’t -- if I can look at my notes, looks like?

10-195-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Took place? Meeting with -- between ---

10-195-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think we were at before. I believe we thought they were going to leave, I think was maybe our understanding, and then afterwards, when it wasn’t, I advised it was an approval to move.

10-196-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. I'm just looking at the -- we're just talking about the 1738 timeframe?

10-196-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, that’s when John asked for approval for the west side. I advised that there was not approval at this time. And I was -- I did know that earlier ---

10-196-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- because we had had that conversation earlier, I believe, with -- probably on the 7th.

10-196-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That would have come through Supt. Patterson. Also, the chief would have been involved in that decision.

10-196-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but I think there was a conversation I had on the 7th with Mark about that.

10-197-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

But I think we had had discussions about it the day before.

10-197-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, when we asked, it was about to move, and then when it came back to say that they wanted to move west, I told them there wasn’t approval to move west at that point.

10-197-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe we'd had a conversation about it. I just want to look back here.

10-197-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-197-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-198-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think John's referring to moving west onto Wellington.

10-198-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. We're not using POU actions to move them.

10-198-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-198-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-199-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-199-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-199-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-199-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. Yes.

10-199-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I knew that Tom Marazzo wasn’t having any further luck getting them to move. I knew that much, yes.

10-200-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-200-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

But that was a common theme.

10-200-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-200-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-200-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Sorry, say that question again?

10-200-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Except that they weren’t present in the meeting.

10-201-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

My information is they weren’t, so there seems to be a gap there.

10-201-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Did Steve Kanellakos say which officers they were?

10-201-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Unfortunately, you'd have to ask someone who was in the meeting, because the information I received from John Ferguson is that there were no OPS members present in the meeting.

10-201-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, because they told me that they didn’t know because they weren’t present.

10-201-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-202-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-202-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That the City had been -- had negotiated with the protestors to move vehicles out of the residential areas on the streets that ran north/south on -- to Wellington, and to move vehicles to Wellington, and then hopefully, any ones that didn’t move would leave the area.

10-202-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-202-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-202-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-203-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-203-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Maybe not in that meeting but once I’d met with them in person, that was the understanding.

10-203-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That was always my understanding. I may not have it into these notes but -- and I may have just remembered from my memory when I met with them a few hours later. But certainly, when I went to the meeting with them in person with the City with Kim Ayotte and Steve Kanellakos, it was about consolidating vehicles onto Wellington.

10-203-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I may not have made a note of it but my understanding had always been that they were going onto Wellington.

10-204-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe that was the case, yes.

10-205-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-205-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

M’hm.

10-205-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

At this point?

10-205-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I just -- you know, I just made a -- that there may be some groups that don’t move because we’d already dealt with Rideau and Sussex a number of times and they hadn’t moved before and had issues there.

10-205-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, I believe the City was hoping to get Rideau-Sussex as part of that agreement.

10-206-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

M’hm.

10-206-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He wanted to know what the impact would be. Like, how many -- would there -- if this happened, would it free up more resources for us? Would that -- like, because we had a lot of officers, you know, going through those areas, working, controlling those road access. Would that shrink the footprint? How many things would that free up, you know? And we planned to deal with the groups that don’t move, and Rideau-Sussex was one of those of those groups that we were concerned about, and we needed a traffic plan to facilitate that, and we want to protect the neighbourhoods that once they - - you know, if you do move trucks out of them, we don’t want them to come back in.

10-206-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I mean, I think we -- you know, we didn’t what this exactly -- how this would work out -- I mean they were -- we knew that the convoy groups were fractured and didn’t -- would they all move as they agreed or not? I think that was something we’d seen. And we’d all certainly seen the Rideau-Sussex group had been very difficult to deal with. So yes, I think there were some concerns whether they would all cooperate ---

10-207-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- and whether it would work out the way we had hoped.

10-207-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-207-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It might have been outside of the meeting but I though it was in the room. I think we were still at -- I still we were at ---

10-207-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think we were at -- we were out at TPOF at the NCRCC, yeah. He did express some concerns to me. I thought it was in the meeting.

10-208-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Just that we didn’t know whether all the groups would cooperate and we knew for certain that the Rideau-Sussex group was a difficult group to deal with.

10-208-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, that they were negotiating and we didn’t -- we didn’t know. Now, to be fair, Supt. Bernier didn’t -- weren’t aware, but I’ve since learned that, you know, members of the executive had been speaking with the City.

10-208-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, it would be ideal that we would know while we were doing planning and police operations that that was in the works, but we weren’t aware. But I mean, ultimately, the goal was to try to shrink the footprint. So if it was something that would have assist us, we were interested in pursuing, but there were some risks attached to it if not all the groups agreed.

10-208-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, we were interested in doing anything that would help shrink the footprint ---

10-209-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- and reduce some of the pressure on a lot of the residential areas. I mean not all -- not everyone of those scenarios was ideal.

10-209-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, to go represent the Police Service.

10-209-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

To speak to the City to find out what the arrangement was, attend the meeting, ultimately, and then report back any concerns that I found.

10-209-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-209-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think there was an expectation that I would raise questions if it was going to be a problem for us. And I reported back after the meeting to Deputy Ferguson and to Rob Bernier about what the outcome was, what the plan that the City and the protesters had reached.

10-209-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-210-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-210-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-210-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, we wanted to ensure public safety and wanted to see the logistics of doing what they proposed.

10-210-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Like you said, it was the letter for very high level and I wanted to know sort of the nuts and bolts about, “Okay, how do you want to do this? What is your plan?”

10-210-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-210-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think I was -- the expectation was that I was going to report back about what -- so this was an arrangement separate with the City. We were not part of that arrangement, at least -- we -- myself -- the Integrated team, and Rob Bernier, and myself, we weren’t aware of it at that point, so when I went to the meeting, it was to find out what the deal was between the City and the protesters and what were logistics behind it.

10-211-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It was cautious optimistic ---

10-211-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- caution. We were cautious about it.

10-211-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-211-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Robert Bernier and Trish Ferguson.

10-211-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I believe during the meeting we were -- we each had concerns that, one, we weren't aware that our group at the NCRCC weren't aware that the City had been negotiating ---

10-212-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- and we wanted to find out more details about what their plans were.

10-212-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-212-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-212-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-212-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe they did. No, it would have been -- I think it was the next day that ---

10-212-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- they expressed concerns. It wasn't that day.

10-212-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-213-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-213-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, it was a very short conversation.

10-213-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No. He just asked me to attend.

10-213-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't remember specifically asking me to report back, but it would be understood that I would be -- would report back through the chain of command.

10-213-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

To go and listen to what they proposed and raise any concerns and look at whatever logistical implications are for us and any safety concerns.

10-213-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, the safety part of it. If we were going to have to -- I mean, ultimately, there would be some form of a traffic plan to make that happen ---

10-214-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- and to see what we could do.

10-214-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Yes, there would be PLT and traffic resources.

10-214-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-214-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-214-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-214-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That's -- I realize that's the first time it's in my notes, but that was my understanding the whole time.

10-214-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-215-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-215-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-215-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-215-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I can help you there. My writing's not the best.

10-215-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I can help you, if you have a -- I can help you.

10-215-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-215-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. They didn't feel that they had any control there.

10-215-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct, yes.

10-216-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, the protesters advised that they didn't have any control over those areas. They didn't have influence on them.

10-216-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-216-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That they would leave.

10-216-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe they talked about vehicles leaving the city, going out to either the location out in the east end, or a location in the west, like, Arnprior. There was a place down in Richmond. There was sort of out by Herb's Trucking out in the east end going toward Vankleek Hill there, that location a lot of vehicles went to too.

10-216-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

But they were agreeing to leave the core.

10-216-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-217-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Absolutely, yes.

10-217-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-217-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-217-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Right here, right outside.

10-217-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-217-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-217-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-217-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We -- in the room, when we had a discussion, I think we looked at a map and we had a discussion about going to Bay, so it would open up more lanes west of that location, particularly the -- having the whole intersection of SJAM with trucks in it created other issues. Again, same sort of problems at Rideau Sussex. It's a main artery going across the border into Quebec. It accesses the Civic Hospital going -- turning if you're going west. So there was an interest to try to open up more area.

10-217-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, it does.

10-218-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe Kim Ayotte had the maps there.

10-218-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think there were maps on the table, if I remember. I don't -- don't quote me on that. I ---

10-218-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- it's -- I don't remember bringing maps. I think the maps were there on the table.

10-218-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I do.

10-219-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That was the map that I was referring to.

10-219-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That was my map in the room.

10-219-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, I did.

10-219-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I certainly understood they wouldn't all fit on Wellington, and I kept highlighting that with them.

10-219-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

And I ---

10-219-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I think they truly believed they could try to fit in as many trucks as possible, and that they would -- the trucks that didn't fit would leave. But I wanted to get sort of a clear response about how that was going to work.

10-220-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-220-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

So during the course of the, you know, the first couple weeks there, we had PLT had met groups that wanted to leave, but unfortunately, were effectively blocked in. And some of them felt intimidated, that they couldn't leave. And we'd seen some of that activity on -- particularly on -- at Rideau Sussex. There were groups that were blocked in. I can think of there were groups that I think had come from the Maritimes that were sort of trapped in there and they wanted to get out, and they couldn't get past the group that was holding the intersection.

10-220-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-220-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think, if memory serves, they asked about bringing a slip tank, which is a tank that you put into the back of a pick-up truck. They talked about how that would be safer than bringing small like 25-litre cans up. And I told them I would not agree -- like I wasn’t in a position to agree to bring any more fuel up.

10-221-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-221-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, there was a safety -- fuel was a safety concern.

10-221-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I mean, yes, they -- obviously, they needed fuel to keep trucks running and stay warm, but fuel -- you know, there’s a lot of rules around how fuel’s handled and we always had safety concerns about whether a fire would start or someone would get hurt with fuel.

10-221-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

So we were very cautious about wanting -- allowing people to use fuel. We wanted fuel in a very controlled environment.

10-221-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, it was more about trying to keep that lower intersection open. And when I asked them, I said, “Look, that intersection’s a problem for us”.

10-222-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

“Can we move back a block or two?”. And I think -- I believe Steve Kanellakos shared that -- you know, we -- I think it was -- they understood when I brought it up that, you know, ideally, we would like to not have that intersection blocked as well.

10-222-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-222-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I asked them like, I mean, you know, yes, you’re going to move to Wellington, but what’s the -- what’s the end, what’s the strategy. What is your plan after that? I mean, I had been with them in the room for a couple hours. We’d eaten some pizza. Like I was talking to them a little bit. I just asked, you know, what -- what is your long-term goal here? What do you -- what’s going to -- and then they told me it was to meet the government.

10-222-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, no, but I just asked like where -- I just asked them -- I was in the room with them for a period of time. I asked them, “What is your goal here? Like how long are you going to try to stay here? What is it going to take for you to leave the street?”. And I think if you read further on in my notes, I do tell them, “You can’t stay here indefinitely”.

10-223-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

“There’s going to be consequences if you stay”.

10-223-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-223-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. Yes, it is.

10-224-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-224-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-224-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-224-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Not that I remember.

10-224-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-224-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think I made it clear that they -- our expectation is that they weren’t staying.

10-224-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-224-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was some resistance. We learned in the morning that not all the groups had agreed, that there were groups that weren’t -- they weren’t moving.

10-225-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I did, yes.

10-225-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I briefed them on what had occurred. We had more discussions later that night. You know, they were cautious. Same thing. You know, let’s see what they can do. Can they really do this? I don’t remember there being any -- you know, I explained what the concerns were and that they couldn’t all fit onto Wellington. And I also had concerns about the -- you know, whether they could -- would the trucks actually leave because we already knew that there was fractures within those groups.

10-225-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, we already knew about, you know, the Coventry Road situation, and they were up front with us to tell us that, you know, they couldn’t -- they didn’t have influence over Coventry Road. They didn’t have influence over Sussex and Rideau. And we suspected there would be other areas that they wouldn’t necessarily have. But we were interested in seeing if it would help shrink the footprint.

10-225-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I reported to Trish Ferguson and Rob Bernier. I was following the chain of command and I expected that Deputy Ferguson would have then notified the Chief.

10-226-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I read the letters and I went to the meeting. It was pretty clear to me what the -- the arrangement was that they were going to stack vehicles up on Wellington and then try to clear the residential streets with -- from the balance.

10-226-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I didn’t -- I didn’t speak to him directly about that. But he was in the meeting the next day in the morning. There was a briefing in the morning where we discussed what was going on.

10-227-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Was -- I believe so. I don’t know how he would have -- it was my understanding. I think it was pretty clear from the letters. And I think it was pretty clear from what I reported back up through the chain of command what we were -- what we were doing, and then the next morning it physically was happening.

10-227-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, it was a lesser of two evils, yes. We were -- yes, more vehicles on Wellington created -- would create a problem later, but we were trying to relieve pressure on the residential areas and try to reduce the footprint.

10-227-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I didn’t directly, no, but I would have expected that he had a representative at the NCRCC that would have been advised.

10-228-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

And I would expect that the Integrated Command Team would have had some contact with them as well.

10-228-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-228-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we are, thank you.

10-229-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I understood it myself, but there may have been some confusion with some other groups, yes.

10-229-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think one of the confusions was whether it was a 24-hour arrangement or a 72-hour arrangement.

10-229-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, the 15th.

10-230-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-230-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-230-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-230-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Not all the groups understood the arrangement and they were -- I believe the different convoy representatives were going around trying to get different groups to agree and understand what’s going on, and I think there were some groups that weren’t in agreement, was one of the problems.

10-230-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I think the traffic plan -- the traffic units and the PLT groups understood what we were going to do.

10-230-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I’m familiar with the name. I can’t put a face to him right now.

10-231-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He worked for the City.

10-231-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-231-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-232-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, I’m not sure -- like, I wasn’t in that -- like, the -- I don’t if -- you may not be familiar with the NCRCC but there’s multiple rooms. I’m assuming he’s in one of the main rooms there but that is not my understanding of how things went. We had delays in the morning with getting contact with Chris Barber and the PLTs connecting with him about getting some of the trucks moving. I know that was a delay in the morning. I know we did want to set up options for people to just leave, and that's maybe what he is referring to. But ultimately, we started moving trucks. It did take a number of hours to get that done, but the main impediment was that there were a number of groups who didn't seem to be onboard, and the protesters were still dealing with them.

10-233-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, there may have been some logistical on-the-ground things that may have occurred that I am not aware of, maybe they were moving a barricade. Like -- so when we do things like that, and I'm just -- this is hypothetical, I don't know ---

10-234-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- but you know, an example. To move those big cement jersey barriers you need a special -- a loader with a, like a clam device, and sometimes there is issues with getting heavy equipment in or moving things or opening up barricades. And sometimes there are little bits of confusion about, you know, we were running -- you know, there were three or four, you know, different police services were all there working, and getting everyone to understand what the instructions were, there may have been -- I can't say that there wasn't some glitches along the way, but ultimately, we got vehicles moving later that day.

10-234-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-234-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- Drummond.

10-235-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-235-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I -- does it actually title a meeting at the top of it, or is it just ongoing conversations?

10-236-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't have notes of it being a meeting, so it may have been an ongoing conversation in the room. I don't have a recollection of that.

10-236-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't have an independent recollection, and I don't have any notes about a meeting occurring at that time.

10-236-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay. Yes, I see that.

10-237-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

This is the 13th we're -- or the 14th?

10-237-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think ---

10-237-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but you're seeing a pattern with my notes about meetings, so I'm not sure that this is a meeting. I'm wondering if this is just being captured with the scribe and Rob Bernier.

10-237-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-237-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-238-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, I know the Emergency Act was coming out, yes.

10-238-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't remember if it was the -- it was the 15th that it actually gets invoked, correct, the next day?

10-238-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The 15th it gets invoked, though?

10-238-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay. So it got invoked that day? Yeah.

10-238-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-238-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-238-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

From the Emergency Act being invoked?

10-238-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but we have been -- there was POU planning going on, but I don't know that one followed the other.

10-239-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-239-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-240-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That there were trucks that weren't moving. There were groups that weren't moving their... There was a group on Bank Street that didn't want to move and the PLT had then since moved on -- moved over to -- they had sort of started going east to west, working the side streets, and they had basically left Bank Street and then were trying to work over on Kent to try to move trucks to Wellington. And there -- we hadn't seen any vehicles leave to go offsite, as originally agreed upon by the -- between the City and the protesters.

10-240-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. So there would be vehicles -- like from a weekend to a Monday, there would be a bit of a -- you'd see an ebb and flow. We saw a -- like there would be more vehicles come into the city on a weekend than there were on a weekday, so there would be the natural Monday vehicles leaving. But we didn't see a marked departure of vehicles leaving the residential streets as we had hoped from the arrangement between the City and the protesters.

10-240-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We just moved vehicles there. We would -- felt that we would have to give them notice that we were going to be doing POU options.

10-241-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. There were always POU options being considered.

10-241-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

For the time being, yeah, at that point.

10-241-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-241-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, that would be bad faith. But I had made it clear to them that going to Wellington was not a long-term.

10-241-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I couldn't give them a timeline. Like we would give them notice, and ultimately later that week we did give them notice.

10-241-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We didn’t have enough resources to do that at that point.

10-242-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That sounds correct, yes.

10-242-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-242-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. We weren’t going to do POU action after we just moved the trucks there.

10-242-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Oh, yes, it could be conceived that way. But we can only -- it’s -- we can only do one piece at a time. Like, the idea that we would start on Wellington first was unlikely. We would work our way to Wellington.

10-242-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

And I think that’s ultimately what you’re going to see later in the week.

10-243-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Later that evening. I think we had stopped moving vehicles by the time it got dark.

10-243-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The next morning there was some issues about the City contacting me about whether we were going to move more vehicles. The PLT Traffic Units thought there was only a 24-hour move. We had some more discussion about that, but ultimately there wasn’t really much room left on Wellington.

10-243-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That topic had been brought up on Monday night, that we were running out of room on Wellington anyways.

10-243-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-244-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-244-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-244-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was a -- I don’t know if it was that -- if it’s there, it would have happened -- yes, I know Larry Brookson reached out to us while we were doing the truck movements and wasn’t happy about it, yes. And I understand why.

10-244-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe Trish brought it up and may have brought it to our attention. I don’t believe I made an independent note about that.

10-244-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

But that -- I would agree that that would be one of their concerns.

10-245-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It might be referring to the Emergencies Act being invoked that day.

10-245-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, we -- it was sort of going into the next day that we had discussions about that, going into the 15th where we were concerned about we didn’t have the -- I think the proper term is orders coming from the Emergencies Act. We wanted to see what the outcomes would be.

10-245-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

In the short term, yes, it would require us to use PLT and Traffic resources to make those moves. But the hope is that we would shrink the footprint and then require less officers to hold the footprint. But, ultimately, we didn’t -- the footprint did not shrink ---

10-245-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- as much as we had hoped.

10-246-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s how it’s written.

10-246-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We helped these -- creating the traffic plan and facilitating moving the vehicles.

10-246-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We sought legal advice on a lot of topics during that time period. A daily event, to be quite honest. So I don’t know what -- I mean, I understand we would be looking for advice on that topic. There was an issue raised and they wanted to see what the Mayor’s position was and get an opinion on it. I assume they would have talked to Christian; you know?

10-246-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It doesn’t say at that point, and I don’t have independent notes about the legal issue.

10-246-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-247-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The ---

10-247-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Yes, Larry Brookson, yes.

10-247-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-247-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think it means that the arrangement between the City and the protesters was done already.

10-248-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, that’s how I would read that.

10-248-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t remember -- I mean, Trish obviously brings up that PPS is not happy or -- like, the comments aren’t attributed -- well, some of them are attributed to people and some of them are not.

10-248-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

By PPS.

10-248-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-249-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-249-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-249-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-249-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-249-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. Dave Radu is an RCMP officer.

10-249-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-250-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, that was an issue we faced the whole time, this -- you know, ultimately, it goes into the conversation I had with them at the meeting on the 13th that they couldn't stay there forever, that we may -- the police would, at some point, be coming to deal with that issue if they didn’t want to leave. And we brought up the same issue there, that we were concerned about what the orders were going to be from the Emergency Act and would we be then going there at some point to enforce them?

10-250-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. I know I refer to it as orders, but regulations might be the proper term.

10-251-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. We weren’t going to be doing enforcement immediately, but at some point, we felt we probably would go there, if they wouldn't move. We were still very hopeful about resolving it using PLT or other means, at that point.

10-251-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There were many things. It was the Act, it was -- there was not enough -- there wasn’t a lot of real estate left on Wellington, and not all the groups were prepared to move, and a lot of them weren’t moving as per the agreement.

10-251-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Wasn’t full, but we -- ultimately, we were going to run out of room sooner or later, right? Whether there was room for 5 more trucks or 10 more trucks, it didn’t really change the outcome. There wasn’t enough room for all those vehicles.

10-251-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-252-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay. So I had told them that it was full, but whether there was room for a few more vehicles, I can't say. I wasn’t on the ground to see it myself, but from the view from some of the camera systems and some of the information I was receiving from officers on the ground, that we were running out of space there.

10-252-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Hodgins, Tim Hodgins.

10-252-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It's about that we don’t think there's enough room left. Maybe there is some room, you know, not going out there and measuring exact ---

10-253-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- amounts of how much room there is, but ultimately, whether we move a few more trucks or don’t move a few more trucks, we can't fit them all.

10-253-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-253-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It was one of the factors.

10-253-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Not all of it, no.

10-253-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It would have been on the 15th. That meeting would have been finalized on the 15th.

10-254-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think he was telling Larry Brookson that, was he not?

10-254-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I'm not sure. So that -- is he saying that the deal's done? I thought we were -- when you showed me that it was about him speaking to Larry Brookson?

10-254-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Can you bring that back up please?

10-254-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. And he says at the bottom, he says he gets it that it's done. Like, I'm assuming that means that the deal's done, like, that they've made the deal.

10-254-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know the point. You showed it to me before.

10-255-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, the next morning, the City is contacting us about whether we're still moving vehicles or not, so I think that wouldn't have been clear between Steve Kanellakos and the chief the night before, because they were reaching out in the morning ---

10-255-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

-- to see if we were going to continue to move vehicles.

10-255-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, but they wouldn't have -- I don't think that they would have gotten that from that meeting with the chief because I think that was in the morning with the PLT and the traffic units.

10-256-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, we didn’t move any more trucks after that, but I think, in my -- I -- it was at in the morning where weren’t going to move any more, after we -- the totality of all the events, the space, the invocation of the Act, the fact that a number of the groups weren’t moving, and they hadn’t left the other groups who we didn’t see a marked departure. It was the totality of all those issues coming up on the morning of the 15th.

10-256-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-256-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I communicated that with Kim Ayotte.

10-256-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-257-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, it was to shrink the footprint ---

10-257-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- and relieve pressure on some of the residential areas.

10-257-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It could have been, yes, depending on how it worked out, but it -- I don’t think it worked out the way the City had hoped because they didn’t see -- not all the groups were aligned and the groups didn’t leave as they had hoped. The ones that couldn’t fit onto Wellington didn’t leave.

10-257-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Those were all factors, yes.

10-257-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-258-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-258-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-258-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Peter’s a Staff Sergeant.

10-258-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-258-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-258-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I was aware of it the next day, yes.

10-259-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

At that location, yes.

10-259-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It may have.

10-260-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-260-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s how many trucks were there. We had had hopes that some would leave.

10-260-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Some of them might not all want to go up there, move on their own.

10-260-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, that’s fair.

10-260-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, it’s the 7th.

10-261-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-261-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-261-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

"This would open up the Rideau/Sussex/Mackenzie area."

10-261-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-261-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-262-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-262-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-262-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-262-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Number ---

10-263-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

On how many would have -- -

10-263-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-263-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Right.

10-263-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-263-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-264-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-264-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-264-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-264-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t remember that at that point but I obviously have notes about that. I don’t remember the feedback from Russ Lucas but it sounds right.

10-264-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That would be the 10th, yes.

10-265-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

“Continued PLT negotiations”.

10-265-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-265-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-266-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-266-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe so.

10-266-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-266-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Nice to meet you.

10-267-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay.

10-267-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. He did.

10-267-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He does.

10-267-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-267-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-268-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That’s fair.

10-268-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-268-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I would say yes.

10-268-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It would depend on each topic.

10-268-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Okay. I wasn’t privy to those meetings, but.

10-268-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-268-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-269-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. But there were periods where he was getting direction from the Chief there as well.

10-269-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but Superintendent Patterson made it clear that the direction was coming from the Chief.

10-269-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-269-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I can only tell you what was relayed to me by Superintendent Patterson.

10-269-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

At that meeting, no.

10-270-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don’t have it in my notes.

10-270-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but the letters made it clear that it was -- they were going to be going onto Wellington.

10-270-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-270-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-270-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I can’t speak to Chief Sloly’s understanding, but that was my understanding from the letter. That was certainly my understanding when I went to the meeting with the city, and that was what I communicated back. And that what was done at the update meetings. So there would -- it was clear to me that that’s what was going on and that was what was being communicated through my chain of command and at the next meeting the next day where Chief Sloly was present.

10-271-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-271-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, but we had those discussions. There were updates, and there were operational movement happening at the NCRCC on the ground on the videos. You could see it on the camera systems that were set up.

10-271-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-272-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-272-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think we gave a briefing that that’s what was -- that was the planned intent, that the trucks were going to move onto Wellington.

10-272-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

At that briefing, yes, I would have said we were moving trucks onto Wellington.

10-272-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No. I may not have written it down in my notes, but ---

10-272-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- it’s clear to me throughout the whole process that was what was happening.

10-273-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-273-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Some of it, yes.

10-273-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-273-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-273-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-274-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He was providing input, yes.

10-274-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-274-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I would agree.

10-274-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-274-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we have.

10-275-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we have.

10-275-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, it's all good.

10-275-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I did not.

10-275-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I do not.

10-275-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-275-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we had some concerns.

10-275-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was non-retired members that were ---

10-275-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There were members that were not retired.

10-275-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-276-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah, true.

10-276-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was concerns about information flowing out of the organisation, yes.

10-276-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I believe there was. There was one member that I was aware of, and we shut down his access to his corporate accounts. But I don't know what came of that investigation. It just at the time, as a precaution, we shut down. He wasn't currently working, he was on a leave of absence.

10-276-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-276-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-276-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we were.

10-277-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-277-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-277-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-277-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-277-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Yes, it was.

10-278-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

In the beginning, certainly we had a resource problem for sure. Absolutely.

10-278-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-278-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There were efforts on all fronts. I mean, I would -- I went out on the street on foot and was involved in some enforcement, particularly with the firework situation, but they weren't -- they were difficult scenarios because they were large crowds and there were officer safety issues when we did some of that enforcement work.

10-278-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, there could have been injuries.

10-278-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-278-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We tried to take efforts to curb those things, and we did do enforcement where possible, but it wasn't perfect.

10-279-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-279-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Absolutely.

10-279-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-279-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I would agree with that.

10-279-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We tried to do enforcement in a lot of areas, and it was met with mixed results.

10-279-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't know if I'd go that far. We certainly did take a stance and we had -- once we got more POU units on the ground in the evening on the QRT teams, we did try to do enforcement and try to stop some of those things. But we weren't successful on all fronts, I agree with you.

10-280-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They could've been injured, yes.

10-280-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah. I -- that was the first time I had heard his name. I can't speak for the entire Service, just myself.

10-280-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There were various reports ---

10-281-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

--- over the course of the ---

10-281-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-281-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The Freedom Convoy group is what I -- how I would remember that.

10-281-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

That was one of the -- that came up on a document, yes.

10-281-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-281-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I was not aware of that.

10-282-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No. We had made arrangements for him to meet with a City official, as he had requested. I don't know about the other comments that you've made.

10-282-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-282-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

At Rideau and Sussex, yes.

10-282-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Well, I'll be honest with you, I can't confirm that. We may have moved some. I wasn’t keeping track of every jersey barrier in the core.

10-282-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

So there was some confusion, I believe, about whether they were leaving or moving.

10-283-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No. Well, we hadn’t requested that yet.

10-283-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, once we'd reached - - if we had reached some sort of agreement. We had City crews available to us 24/7. That wasn’t difficult to move a barrier.

10-283-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-283-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Are you referring to Rideau and Sussex, which -- that’s not necessarily a residential area. That’s a commercial area there.

10-284-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It could have been done, but we didn’t reach an agreement, and the group there didn’t want to move.

10-284-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I had had dealings up with that street. I had been up to Rideau and Sussex during the course of the events.

10-284-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They made it clear on a number of occasions they weren’t too happy.

10-284-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-284-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I think there was some -- there were some issues about whether they were leaving or moving, and I had spoke to Inspector -- or Supt. Patterson earlier, and we didn’t have approval to do that.

10-285-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

To move west.

10-285-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The Event Commander, Supt. Patterson.

10-285-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

So at that -- so around 1738, I have notes about that I -- when I talked to John Ferguson that I had talked earlier to Mark Patterson and we didn’t -- and the chief was involved -- and we didn’t have approval to move west at that point.

10-285-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-285-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

The Event Commander.

10-285-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-286-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-286-07

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I didn’t hear that piece, no.

10-286-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

These are referring to me coming to the meeting on the 13th at City Hall, yes, that would be me on the 13th. I wasn’t on the ground on the 14th.

10-286-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We were attempting. We moved 30 to 40 trucks up onto Wellington.

10-286-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It stopped for a number of reasons.

10-286-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, they just -- they couldn't seem to finish the deal in the sense that they -- there were groups that they couldn't get to move. There were groups that weren’t on board.

10-287-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was a group on Bank Street.

10-287-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-287-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

See, that was something. You know, we didn’t have -- it wasn’t clear who belonged to what groups, right?

10-287-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They didn’t wear team jerseys explaining who belonged to which team, so to speak, out there.

10-287-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We allowed trucks ---

10-287-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We allowed trucks to move that agreed to move. We moved those trucks.

10-288-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, we didn’t stop anyone on the Monday, no.

10-288-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Good afternoon.

10-288-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-289-05

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I'd have a hard time putting a number on it, but there were a lot of different groups here.

10-289-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I would agree with that.

10-289-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-289-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-289-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They were.

10-290-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-290-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I wasn’t up until then. That was the group that was there. I don’t have a lot of detail about their background or their beliefs or goals.

10-290-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

During the events, on the actions-on days, yes, when we were dealing with them on the 18th, yes.

10-290-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Are you referring to the group that was out of Coventry Road?

10-290-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, that’s the name that was provided to me as well.

10-290-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

JetForm Park, yes.

10-290-27

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-291-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I remember that was in an email, yes.

10-291-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-291-10

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-291-13

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-291-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-291-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.

10-291-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-291-25

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-291-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-292-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-292-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I’m not familiar with her Tweets, to be honest.

10-292-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I didn’t read them.

10-292-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Again, I’m not familiar with that but that doesn’t surprise me that that would have occurred.

10-292-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I have seen some of them, yes.

10-292-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I do.

10-293-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I would agree that there was some dissention amongst the groups.

10-293-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-293-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We tried to identify the larger groups when possible. That didn’t always pan out as we had hoped.

10-294-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

There was definitely some fracture -- the groups were very fractured and had different views on things.

10-294-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, a lot of them ---

10-294-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. Yes. Ultimately, I believe most of the -- particularly, you know, I would say that -- the people who came from out West, I suspect that they would have liked to had a chance to be on Wellington.

10-294-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-294-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, we had to do a traffic plan to divert some of them.

10-294-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We didn’t see a noticeable move. Some may have moved. Like, the problem is we don’t have a system in place where we’re, like, marking a truck and saying, “This is truck 105. This is 110,” things like that, so vehicles come and go and, you know, it’s hard for us to keep track of every vehicle.

10-294-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct.

10-295-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. I believe they were already there. They weren’t new that day; they just didn’t move.

10-295-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

A separate ---

10-295-16

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-295-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yeah.

10-295-23

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-295-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Very fluid.

10-295-28

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-296-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-296-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We had some information. There were different -- OPP were keeping an eye on some of the ones that are outside the City of Ottawa -- Arnprior, the one in the east end.

10-296-09

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They were sharing intelligence on that.

10-296-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-296-18

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

It was at times, yes.

10-296-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-296-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, unfortunately.

10-296-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-297-04

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, it was volatile.

10-297-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, I read that in the Hendon Reports.

10-297-21

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I know the document you’re referring to, yes.

10-298-02

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

This is -- I mean, I see the comments that are made there. This is a private company, it's not a recognised intelligence group that we would've dealt with back then. I know that company had been -- had sent information to us. I think they were looking to -- for us to get involved in their product.

10-298-26

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Well, I mean, you know, there was -- there were people who made comments between us and what had happened at the U.S. State Capitol. You know, there were similarities to what occurred. I mean, we didn't have the same storming of the Hill type that the Americans had, we had a -- you know, vehicles camped out on roadways. So there were differences. We didn't have the same level of violence and mischief that had occurred down in Washington.

10-299-06

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

We know that now. Exactly. We know that now.

10-299-15

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes.

10-299-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I saw parts of it. I watched some of the video. I was away last week.

10-300-03

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

I don't recall that, no. Was that the -- I didn't see all of his evidence.

10-300-08

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I don't.

10-300-12

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No, I don't. I'm not familiar with that company. I had seen that email, and I think we had maybe had a presentation from them earlier in the year through Chief Sloly, but I think they're a U.S.-based company. I'm not really familiar with them.

10-300-17

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Good evening.

10-301-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes, I have.

10-301-19

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Rideau and Sussex. We're looking southbound here. That's the Westin Hotel on the left.

10-301-22

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

They were very anti- government, anti-authority. Farfadaa was one of the groups that was there. We had had conflict there and calls for service there to try to deal with the -- even problems within the groups with each other. I think you've heard today that the Freedom Convoy group also was not successful in trying to reach any resolution with them trying to move or do things differently out there. And this video I believe was shot on the 18th of February when we were doing what's called "actions on" for a positive action with the Public Order Units. We were clearing out that intersection, and clearly there are people that are not obeying the direction from the police officers on the scene and are entering into altercations.

10-302-01

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

So there is a -- the fellow with the backpack, you can see that at the beginning the Public Order Officers, the ones that have the yellow on, are trying to get that person to keep moving on and he is hanging onto a, I think it's a parking sign, but he's hanging onto a sign there. Ultimately, he's being combative and not listening to direction. And behind, you see the officers that are not in yellow, there's -- they have darker clothing, they are what we would refer to as less lethal officers. They have weapons with them that would fire like a rubber bullet or gas if required, and they are behind the line which you see in yellow, and I believe one or two of them become involved with that individual. There's a -- you can't see enough because -- but obviously they're on the ground. I researched this incident, and I know that what happens is the person on the ground places a -- kind of a hold on the officer's leg and won't let go, and the officer believes that his leg is going to be broken. He delivers strikes with the tip of the R1 gun to get him to release.

10-302-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Yes. The subject was arrested. There was an Injured on Duty Report filed to the officer. He had medical treatment after that with the EMS. And that -- the subject was processed for charges.

10-303-14

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

He was seen by paramedics.

10-303-20

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

In relation to this incident, yes.

10-303-24

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

Correct. Yes.

10-304-11

Robert Drummond, Supt (Ott-OPS)

No.