Michael J. Morris

Title
Counsel
Organization / Affiliation
Government of Saskatchewan (SK)

Michael J. Morris spoke 303 times across 9 days of testimony.

  1. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good morning. My name is Mike Morris, and I'm the Director of Litigation for the Civil Law Branch of Saskatchewan's Ministry of Justice. I'm appearing with my colleague, Mitch McAdam, who is the Director of the Ministry's Constitutional Law Branch. The Government of Saskatchewan has been granted full standing before the Commission and intends to participate in both the evidentiary phase and the policy phase for the proceedings. February 14th was a very significant day from the Government of Saskatchewan's perspective. On the morning of February 14th, a First Ministers call was held. The phone call was chaired by the Prime Minister. That phone call was the first time the Federal Government told the Government of Saskatchewan that it was considering invoking the Emergencies Act and declaring a Public Order Emergency. The Government of Saskatchewan indicated that it did not want the emergency declaration applying within the province, and other provincial governments did the same. Later that day, the Federal Government proclaimed a Public Order Emergency. It was not geographically limited, as requested by Saskatchewan, and other provinces, and as we know, it remained in effect until February 23rd. For its part, the Government of Saskatchewan is primarily interested in four areas, which will be explored in this Inquiry: The first area is whether there were reasonable grounds to believe that circumstances amounting to a public order emergency existed on February 14th. The second area concerns whether the consultation requirement under section 25 of the Act was met. Saskatchewan's position is that the Federal Government had already determined that a nationwide emergency would be declared before the First Ministers' call on February 14th. The call was not so much about consulting, as it was about telling. The third area concerns whether the emergency measures were overbroad. The financial measures, for example, imposed broad responsibilities on financial institutions, with little guidance, and they created offences for not complying with those new responsibilities. The final area concerns to what extent Saskatchewan residents were impacted by the emergency measures. The Government is concerned that residents' rights may have been unnecessarily infringed by these measures. The Government looks forward to participating in the Commission and assisting the Commission in fulfilling its mandate. Thank you.

    01-035-11

  2. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good morning. Can I be heard in Ottawa?

    07-105-01

  3. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, Commissioner.

    07-105-04

  4. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    My name is Mike Morris and I'm Counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Good morning, sir.

    07-105-06

  5. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    We have about five minutes, give or take today, so it won't be too long. I have some fairly straightforward questions for you, I think. Sir, will you agree with me that OPP officers have authority to enforce the Criminal Code and provincial offences including under the Highway Traffic Act?

    07-105-10

  6. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And am I correct that OPP officers have always had this authority including in the City of Ottawa?

    07-105-18

  7. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So it follows that OPP officers have not required the provincial or federal Emergency Act to be invoked to have those powers then; is that correct?

    07-105-23

  8. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And will you agree with me that intentionally blocking a public road with one's vehicle can constitute an offence under the Criminal Code?

    07-106-02

  9. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And can it also constitute the offence of mischief?

    07-106-07

  10. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And can it also constitute an offence under the Highway Traffic Act?

    07-106-10

  11. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Now we've heard some evidence about what's been called the Coventry Road incident, and I understand that occurred on February 6th of 2022; correct?

    07-106-14

  12. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I understand that the Ottawa Police Service arrested a number of people in relation to fuel that they were stockpiling at the Coventry Road site; correct?

    07-106-18

  13. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And are you familiar with the offence that these people were alleged to be committing?

    07-106-24

  14. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And would that be aiding and abetting mischief which was occurring in downtown Ottawa by trucks occupying the core?

    07-106-28

  15. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Assuming these people were committing an offence, would OPP officers have had the same authority to arrest them as the OPS?

    07-107-05

  16. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And that's the offence of providing fuel for people participating with their vehicles in the downtown core and blockading roads; correct?

    07-107-13

  17. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So at this point, we've heard evidence, a quite a bit of evidence about there being a lot of trucks in the Ottawa downtown core. My question is, were there checkpoints for vehicles entering the downtown core before the Federal Emergencies Act was invoked on February 14th?

    07-107-19

  18. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes, sir.

    07-107-26

  19. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    To your knowledge, were there road closures or traffic diversions before the federal Emergencies Act was invoked on February 14th? And I'm talking specifically to prevent vehicles from entering the downtown core in Ottawa.

    07-108-06

  20. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And am I correct then that decision on blocking those streets would have been -- that would have been the decision of the Ottawa Police Service?

    07-108-18

  21. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And do I understand correctly, I believe I heard you say that there were road closures and blocked streets before February 14th when the federal Emergencies Act came into effect. Is that correct?

    07-108-24

  22. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. If I can, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about a demonstration that occurred in Ottawa in April, known as the Rolling Thunder demonstration. Are you familiar with that one?

    07-109-01

  23. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I will be quick, Commissioner. Thank you.

    07-109-07

  24. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I understand there was no emergency legislation in place when Rolling Thunder occurred in April; correct?

    07-109-11

  25. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And checkpoints, or I guess, roadblocks or controlled access was used for Rolling Thunder. Is that correct?

    07-109-15

  26. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And Rolling Thunder was successfully managed and resolved; correct?

    07-109-21

  27. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.

    07-109-25

  28. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good afternoon, sir. Can you hear me?

    07-259-14

  29. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. Sir, my name is Mike Morris, and I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. I’m just going to have a few questions for you today. Would you agree with me that the OPP, the RCMP and the OPS did not need the Federal Emergencies Act to be invoked to set up an integrated command structure?

    07-259-17

  30. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I gather you’d agree that those same police forces didn’t need the Federal Emergencies Act to be invoked to come up with an operational plan for removing the occupation in Ottawa, correct?

    07-259-27

  31. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And you signed off on the operational plan that was ultimately used on February 12th on behalf of the OPP, correct?

    07-260-04

  32. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And I understand the RCMP approved that same version of the plan on February 12th as well; is that correct?

    07-260-09

  33. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I think we’ve heard that the OPS approved that same version of the plan on February 13th, correct?

    07-260-13

  34. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And when you signed off on that plan, you were confident that it could be implemented to end the occupation, correct?

    07-260-17

  35. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And the February 13th plan did not contemplate any powers under the Federal Emergencies Act, correct?

    07-260-21

  36. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And as commander of the Integrated Planning Cell, if you had thought that such powers were needed, you would have told someone, correct?

    07-260-25

  37. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.

    07-261-03

  38. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good evening, Mr. Freeman. Can you hear me?

    20-214-01

  39. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. My name is Mike Morris and I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. I just have a few questions for you.

    20-214-04

  40. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Mr. Freeman, I expect you’re familiar with the Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety?

    20-214-08

  41. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I understand that that council involves federal, provincial, and territorial ministers and officials? Is that correct?

    20-214-12

  42. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And there is an ADM level table for that council; correct?

    20-214-16

  43. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And do you sit on that ADM level table?

    20-214-19

  44. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I’m interested in February of 2022, during the protests. So you did participate in that table at that time; correct?

    20-214-23

  45. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And am I correct that officials from the Government of Saskatchewan also participated in that table at that time?

    20-214-27

  46. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And this has been referenced already in your evidence, but I understand that there were meetings of the ADM level table on February 4th and 8th. Does that accord with your recollection?

    20-215-03

  47. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes, my understanding is that the meetings were organized by Transport Canada and they were specifically because Transport Canada wanted to develop a common strategy to deal with demonstrations on roadways. Is that fair?

    20-215-11

  48. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And these were effectively ad hoc meetings then? Is that what you’re indicating?

    20-215-18

  49. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And they were organized then on relatively short notice?

    20-215-21

  50. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And then in your experience, such FPT meetings can be set up on very short notice? Is that fair?

    20-215-24

  51. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And can they even be set up on weekends if needed?

    20-215-28

  52. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And during those meetings on February 4th and February 8th that were set up on short notice and which were ad hoc meetings, you had good participation from the FPT representatives; did you not?

    20-216-07

  53. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I also understand that there was discussion at those meetings about, of course, this common strategy to deal with demonstrations on roadways, but that discussion was really about what might be accomplished with existing provincial and federal law? Is that fair to say?

    20-216-12

  54. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    You’ll correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that there was no discussion of the Federal Government potentially invoking the Emergencies Act on those meetings on February 4th or 8th; was there?

    20-216-19

  55. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    That would have been a big deal, if there was discussion of that nature, wouldn’t it?

    20-216-25

  56. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And in your view, would those meetings have been an appropriate forum for the potential invocation of the Federal Emergencies Act to be discussed? And I’m thinking particularly because you have MTO officers that may need to exercise certain responsibilities if the federal law was used and new responsibilities were placed on them.

    20-217-04

  57. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    If that information were made available to you, for example, on February 8th, it would have been valuable and you would have been pleased to receive it; correct?

    20-217-16

  58. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    It might be above your pay grade? Is that what you’re indicating?

    20-217-27

  59. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.

    20-218-02

  60. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good morning, sir. It’s Mike Morris, counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. I’m saying good morning because it’s still morning here and I think your internal clock’s probably still set to Alberta.

    21-122-05

  61. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I just have a few questions for you. Sir, I understand that in February of this year, you represented Alberta on the FPT Crime Prevention and Policing Committee; is that correct?

    21-122-11

  62. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And that would be a committee which is composed of officials from the federal, provincial, and territorial government; correct?

    21-122-17

  63. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And, as such, that committee would include representatives from the Government of Saskatchewan, then; correct?

    21-122-21

  64. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    My understanding is that the committee met several times before the Public Order Emergency was proclaimed on February 14th; is that correct?

    21-122-25

  65. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And my review of the material indicates that the committee met on February 1st, February 7th, and February 11th; does that accord with your understanding?

    21-123-01

  66. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And did you attend the meetings on the 1st, 7th, and 11th?

    21-123-06

  67. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    At any of those meetings, did federal officials indicate that the government was considering invoking the Emergencies Act?

    21-123-11

  68. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    In your view, would the committee have been an appropriate forum to discuss whether it was advisable for the Federal Emergencies Act to be invoked?

    21-123-15

  69. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But in the end, you never had the opportunity to have those consultations, then; correct?

    21-123-23

  70. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And just a couple more. In your experience with these FPT meetings, can they be convened on very short notice?

    21-123-26

  71. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And would that even include on weekends?

    21-124-03

  72. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you very much, sir. Those are my questions for you.

    21-124-07

  73. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good evening, sir. My name is Mike Morris. I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. I only want to talk about one phone call with you tonight. So it should hopefully be pretty straightforward. It’s a phone call you had with Deputy Minister Stewart of Public Safety Canada at about 8:55 a.m. on February 14th. And like any good police officer, I think you made good contemporaneous notes, so that’s going to help us out quite a bit. I just ask that the following be pulled up by the Registrar. ONT00003847. Do you recognize your notes, sir?

    21-378-09

  74. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Dated February 14th, 2022. Time recorded as 8:55. I take it that’s a.m.; correct?

    21-378-22

  75. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    This is a call with Deputy Minister Stewart. Did you initiate that call or did he? Do you recall?

    21-378-25

  76. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Your notes state: “I inquire as to whether Federal emergencies Act will be invoked today.” And the next note is “Silence” with an exclamation point; correct?

    21-379-01

  77. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So you asked the question. You were met with silence then?

    21-379-07

  78. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Can we go to the next page of the PDF? I think this is a continuation of your notes from that same call. I’m just going to ask you to confirm that for me though.

    21-379-10

  79. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So if I read this correctly, you then have written down: “I am informed PM made a decision that FM meeting called, followed by press conference. Cabinet meeting held last night.” Did I read that correctly?

    21-379-15

  80. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    PM would mean Prime Minister?

    21-379-23

  81. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    FM meeting would be First Ministers meeting then?

    21-379-26

  82. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So was this Deputy Minister Stewart advising you then that a Cabinet meeting had occurred last night, that the Prime Minister had made a decision, and that a First Ministers meeting was to occur and to be followed by a press conference that day? Is that fair?

    21-380-01

  83. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And then your next note is: “I advise from my perspective that sounds like federal [government] invoking Emergencies Act.” Correct?

    21-380-07

  84. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And your final note of this phone call, if I understand it correctly, is: “Silence from Rob Stewart.” Is that correct?

    21-380-13

  85. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And this was a very important discussion from your perspective, I take it?

    21-380-26

  86. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And did you report this information after you received it to anyone?

    21-381-01

  87. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Who did you report it to, sir?

    21-381-04

  88. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And was it your understanding then that the First Ministers meeting was going to occur after this phone call that you’d had with Deputy Minister Stewart?

    21-381-07

  89. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. We can clarify the timing with a different witness, likely from the Federal Government. Thank you, sir. Those are my questions for you.

    21-381-13

  90. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good afternoon, Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner. My name is Mike Morris, and I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Commissioner, I think we’ve established that you did not speak at the February 13th IRG meeting, or at the Cabinet meeting on February 13th; is that correct?

    23-215-12

  91. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I’d like to show you an email that indicates that someone else was substituted in for you at Cabinet. Registrar, can we pull up PBNSCCAN00003216? This should be an email at 7:51 p.m. with the subject line -- there it is: “Minor changes to reflect another is presenting on behalf of you/RCMP RE: TPs [talking points] for NSIA or Minister.” And it’s from Alison Whelan. I understand this is somebody that works with you, Commissioner?

    23-215-19

  92. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So this email, then, contemplated Jody Thomas from Minister Mendicino delivering remarks instead of you, then; is that correct?

    23-216-05

  93. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Sorry; as the NSIA.

    23-216-10

  94. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Well, I’m just asking if there was a decision that either the NSIA or Minister Mendicino would be delivering remarks that you would have given on behalf of the RCMP at the Cabinet meeting?

    23-216-14

  95. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And I’d just like us to scroll down a little bit, right above the word, “Windsor” on this first page. Keep scrolling, and it’s the bullet right above “Windsor”. It says: “All the information I’m sharing below is current as of 5pm this afternoon.” So that would mean 5:00 p.m. on February 13th; correct?

    23-216-19

  96. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I’d like us to go to the third page, then, and then just scroll about halfway down. And there’s a bullet in the middle of the page that says: “RCMP and OPP assembled the foremost experts to develop a strategic plan,...” Do you see that?

    23-216-28

  97. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So this is information that was provided, presumably, to the NSIA and then Minister Mendicino, then; is that correct?

    23-217-08

  98. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I guess my point is these speaking points reference the operational plan, the February 13th operational plan for either the NSIA or the Minister?

    23-217-13

  99. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But I take it that plan wasn't discussed at Cabinet; was it?

    23-217-17

  100. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So she's unable to say whether the plan was mentioned by anyone at Cabinet, not deliberations regarding it, but just rather whether it was a subject of discussion? Is that the Government's position?

    23-217-25

  101. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    23-218-03

  102. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And does that include an oral input then, Commissioner?

    23-218-07

  103. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I don't want to know about deliberations. I just want to know if there was any mention that the RCMP, the OPS and the OPP had a plan in place that was approved at the February 13th Cabinet meeting. That's all I want to know.

    23-218-13

  104. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Thank you. Commissioner, you've been referred several times to an email you had with Mike Jones, Minister Mendocino's Chief of Staff that was shortly before the Cabinet meeting on February 13th. Do you recall that?

    23-218-19

  105. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right, right. Well, that you haven't exhausted all existing legal authorities.

    23-218-26

  106. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And then that's the next question I want to ask you. Did anybody say at the Cabinet meeting that the RCMP and other police had not exhausted all existing legal authorities? Can you answer that for me?

    23-219-01

  107. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Was it said by somebody providing inputs to Cabinet? That's what I want to know.

    23-219-12

  108. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I understand. I'm going to move on, and I want to pull up another document. It's PB.NSC.CAN.00008074. And just these are Deputy Commissioner's notes, just for reference. And I'd like to go to page 104, please, of the PDF. Deputy Commissioner, these are your notes, correct, from February 14th, 2022? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME That's correct.

    23-219-19

  109. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    They reference a meeting with the NSIA at nine a.m.; is that correct? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME That's correct.

    23-219-27

  110. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Who called that meeting? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME I would say that it was probably called by PCO. Rarely do I engage the NSIA unless there's an ongoing matter that has to be briefed up.

    23-220-02

  111. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME But it would -- it was probably called by PCO.

    23-220-07

  112. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Can you explain the words inevitable outcome at the first arrow and what that's in reference to? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME I'm trying to remember what I meant by that. This is going back quite some time ago, but I'm just wondering if it's not with regards to the use of force that would be needed ---

    23-220-10

  113. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME --- to bring this to an end, and I'm just -- like, I think it might be that, but I'm not a hundred percent sure.

    23-220-17

  114. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    From your recollection, did the NSIA know about the operational plan which had been developed as of nine a.m.? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME I don't recall ever briefing her on the plan with regards to the intervention plan, because even on the 14th -- were briefed on the 13th. It was still not officially signed off until we had the final plan as we were moving closer to the weekend of the 18th. So I did not brief the NSIA with regards to operational plan.

    23-220-21

  115. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I want to pull up another document. It's OPS00014566. These should be notes of Chief Sloly's scribe. And I understand that, Commissioner, you had a meeting, I don't know if it was virtual or in person, with Chief Sloly at 10 a.m. on February 14th. So if you can just scroll down a little bit, please? Okay. There we are. 10 a.m. meeting with Commissioners Carrique and Lucki. And where I need us to go, just a little bit further down, just scroll a tiny bit further. Okay. Please just stop. Now we have a bullet which says, "Lucki did not get Prime Minister briefed up on the plan. Prime Minister will be enacting the Emergency Measures Act. Advise for legal to review what the measures are, what's the process." Now, Commissioner, my question simply for you is, it's a fairly straightforward one, did you tell former Chief Sloly at this 10 a.m. meeting that the Emergency Act was going to be invoked?

    23-221-05

  116. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But you have no reason to dispute what's noted here then. That's what you're telling me; is that fair?

    23-222-01

  117. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    10 a.m.

    23-222-06

  118. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I'm not sure how much time I've got left. I've got two areas and if I can only cover one, maybe I'll start with that. I just want to touch briefly on the freezing of bank accounts. My understanding is that the RCMP provided a list of names to financial institutions but that it was up to those financial institutions to do with that list; is that fair? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME Correct. We were the conduit of information for Ottawa Police Service and the OPP, and it was a financial services responsibility to decide if they were going to freeze or not based on what we gave them.

    23-222-11

  119. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. But would you agree with me that if they had a list for a designated person, you know, not freezing a bank account or credit card on that list could constitute an offence? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME I would -- I'd have to go through the Measures Act, but I think face value like that, it is, but, again, it's at their discretion as to how to proceed. If they're not comfortable with the information that we provide, and here's an example, we could provide information that we believe that the person's there, but if this person has a visa card and is somewhere in Canada, all of a sudden, we have to go back and double check and validate what we have. So the responsibility rests with the financial services to decide if they freeze or not.

    23-222-22

  120. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right. It's an offence to make funds available to somebody participating in a demonstration covered by the Emergencies Act; fair enough? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME Fair.

    23-223-08

  121. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And then that's a little bit of a heavy onus then on these financial institutions because they're facing potential charge if they don't freeze accounts; fair? D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME I didn't write the legislation or the orders. We just applied them.

    23-223-12

  122. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    23-223-18

  123. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I have one last area then. Can I have two minutes, Commissioner, or not? If not, I understand. I don't want to take up all the time.

    23-223-22

  124. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, sir. Thank you for answering my questions. Much appreciated. D/COMM MICHAEL DUHEME Thank you.

    23-223-27

  125. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good afternoon. Mike Morris. Counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. My questions will primarily be about the Emergency Economic Measures Order, which I’ll just call the Order, and I gather you’ll understand what I’m referring to. Fair enough?

    25-137-21

  126. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Mr. Sabia, the Order came into effect on February 15th; correct?

    25-137-28

  127. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And as of February 13th, the Department of Finance was consulting with the CEOs of the major banks about the types of measures that might be included in the order; correct?

    25-138-03

  128. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yeah, but fair enough. You were discussing potentialities that might find their way into the order; correct?

    25-138-15

  129. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And clearly the Department of Finance thought that the input of the bank CEOs was valuable then?

    25-138-21

  130. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But you’ll agree there was no obligation to consult with them under the Emergencies Act; was there? The Act did not prescribe a requirement that the government consult with bank CEOs before invoking the Act; did it?

    25-139-01

  131. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    That’s all I want you to say.

    25-139-07

  132. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And, sir, will you agree with me that on the 13th, Cabinet met, February 13th, to discuss the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

    25-139-10

  133. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Sure. I understand that, sir.

    25-139-21

  134. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But at that point, any input that Finance had received from the bank CEOs could have been conveyed to Cabinet if it was appropriate; correct?

    25-139-25

  135. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Sure. And Cabinet didn’t meet again until February 15th, after the Emergencies Act was invoked? Is that correct?

    25-140-03

  136. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I just want to know full Cabinet.

    25-140-08

  137. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Correct.

    25-140-13

  138. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’m going to go to Ms. Jacques now. Ms. Jacques, in terms of working up the order, did you have the content that you wanted included in it determined as of February 13th from a policy perspective?

    25-140-17

  139. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. What I’d like to know is whether the Department consulted with any Provincial Governments about what it was proposing to include in the Order before the Order was enacted on February 15th?

    25-140-28

  140. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. What about with credit unions?

    25-141-06

  141. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    What about with insurers?

    25-141-09

  142. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I actually want to move on, because we’re running a little slow here. So I’m going to ask the Registrar to pull up document CCU.IR.00000001. And this is the Institutional Report of the Canadian Credit Unit Association. And I’d like us to go to page 3 of the report, please. There will be a bullet point entitled “Lack of Clarity Regarding Requirements.” We’ll just -- I’ll read this for you: “When the measures were first announced, it was […] unclear to whom the financial sanctions applied. Eventually it became clear that the sanctions were aimed at a very small list of individuals and entities. However, in the early days, there was some degree…”

    25-141-14

  143. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes, sir. I’m mindful of my time: “…there was some degree of panic among some Canadians that their accounts may be frozen due to such things as small donations to the “freedom convoy.” Can you agree with the statements I’ve read from the Credit Unions Associations Institution Report?

    25-142-05

  144. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I want to look to the general and technical Q&As that the Department prepared, and to do that, we need to pull up SSM.CAN.00000278. And I want to go to page 5, if we could, of the PDF. And in particular, question 13. Now, this has to do with insurance. And I understand this document would have been prepared by Finance for answering questions that might be posed to it. Is that fair?

    25-142-18

  145. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Let’s look at the first ---

    25-142-28

  146. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    It’s one of your documents produced by Canada.

    25-143-05

  147. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So if we go back to Question 13? “Aren’t you exposing others to risk if you suspend protestors’ vehicle insurance?” And I’m interested in the answer, which is the last sentence: “We expect insurance companies to ensure that third parties can continue to benefit from an insurance payout.” And I’m interested because I see it this way. Number 1, the Order directs insurers that they have to cancel insurance policies for vehicles, but number 2, the Government appears to be saying it still expects third parties to be paid out by the insurers. If the insurance is cancelled, how can the insurer possibly do that?

    25-143-09

  148. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Agreed. Ms. Jacques, as a lawyer, will you agree with me that insurance is a form of personal property?

    25-144-04

  149. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, just with her own personal knowledge, you know, I agree, she’s not an expert witness, certainly, but, in law, do you understand that insurance can be characterized as personal property?

    25-144-11

  150. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, I’ll move on. Were the RCMP consulted about the insurance measures in the order before the order was enacted?

    25-144-16

  151. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Afterwards, okay. And, you know, my understanding is they -- there were not comfortable with the insurance provisions in the order; is that your understanding as well, Ms. Jacques?

    25-144-24

  152. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right. I just want to talk a little bit more about what the Credit Unions Associations Institutional Report states. It states that credit unions make up 44 percent of the market share in Saskatchewan; were you aware of that?

    25-145-08

  153. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes.

    25-145-15

  154. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, thank you, sir. Were you aware of the market share of credit unions in Saskatchewan, 44 percent?

    25-145-18

  155. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And one last question; it’s a pretty easy one. You’ll agree with me that both credit unions and insurers are provincially regulated; correct?

    25-145-25

  156. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. Those are my questions.

    25-146-01

  157. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. Good evening, Ms. Thomas. My name is Mike Morris and I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Ms. Thomas, I understand that you were only about two weeks into your role as NSIA when the Freedom Convoy rolled into Ottawa. Is that correct?

    25-307-21

  158. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    That meant you were effectively having to learn your role while in the thick of it. Is that fair?

    25-307-28

  159. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I think you’ve stated that as NSIA, you were essentially a consumer of intelligence provided to you by other agencies, such as the RCMP and CSIS; correct?

    25-308-04

  160. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right. What I want to touch upon is your request for a threat assessment from the RCMP on February 14th. Commission Counsel raised this with you and drew your attention to an email which was titled “Urgent” from Mike MacDonald to the RCMP indicating you needed a threat assessment for the Clerk of the Privy Council. Do you recall that?

    25-308-09

  161. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So I’m just going to ask the Registrar to pull up PB.NSC.CAN.00003462. And the reason I’m pulling this up, ma’am, is because I think you actually did get a response to that threat assessment, and I just want to give you the opportunity to see that.

    25-308-17

  162. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Because if we just scroll down, we can see there’s information provided from Adriana Poloz from the RCMP to Mike MacDonald at 2:25 p.m.; correct?

    25-308-27

  163. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And she says: “Mike As requested, pls let me know if this suits your requirements.” And below that, of course, is obviously what -- is the RCMP assessment on the convoy. I’d just like us to scroll up then again back to the top, because it appears that you had some questions about this material, this assessment, and you had asked Mr. MacDonald to convey them to the RCMP, particularly it looks like he’s quoted from something you typed, which begins: “I guess my question is ‘how do we know’, in particular how do we know that the majority are peaceful?” And of course there’s some other stuff typed after that as well; correct?

    25-309-04

  164. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So that was a question that you wanted answered. And Mr. MacDonald seems to be indicating that NSAI would like the question answered within the next 20 minutes. And if we just scroll up again so we can see the time of this email, it’s 19:52. So if we subtract five hours, I think that puts us at 2:52 p.m. on February 14th. Is that fair?

    25-309-21

  165. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Do you know what time the First Ministers meeting was held on that day? I think it was 10:15 a.m.

    25-310-01

  166. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And did it go for around an hour or a little over an hour? Do you know?

    25-310-06

  167. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And I gather you do know that the Prime Minister had a press conference scheduled for February 14th for 4:30 p.m. Do you recall that?

    25-310-09

  168. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And that at that press conference, of course, the Prime Minister announced that the Emergencies Act was being invoked; correct?

    25-310-13

  169. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’m just trying to get a timeline.

    25-310-17

  170. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So basically you were looking for some more information at approximately 2:52 p.m., you wanted it within the next 20 minutes, and there was a press conference scheduled that day for 4:30 p.m.; correct?

    25-310-20

  171. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    25-310-25

  172. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And this was required for the Clerk of the Privy Council; correct?

    25-311-01

  173. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. You wouldn’t have asked if you didn’t think the Clerk should have it, I assume; correct?

    25-311-04

  174. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    25-311-10

  175. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. You hadn’t spoken with the Prime Minister between the First Ministers meeting and the announcement then at 4:30 p.m.? Or sorry, I shouldn’t go to the announcement. I should go to the time this email was sent.

    25-311-14

  176. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    25-311-23

  177. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I understand that. I just have one last question. There was reference to an email drafted by a person named Phillipe Lafortune in the Privy Council Office. Do you recall that?

    25-311-26

  178. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Is that person a lawyer, do you know?

    25-312-04

  179. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    25-312-07

  180. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. He was just essentially doing some legal research type work then? Is that fair?

    25-312-09

  181. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Thank you, ma’am. Those are my questions for you. Have a good evening.

    25-312-14

  182. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes, good afternoon. My name is Mike Morris. I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. I’d like to start out by discussing CSIS’ February 13th draft threat assessment, so I’m going to ask the registrar to pull up the document. It’s TS.NSC.CAN.001.00000172. Mr. Vigneault, just as we’re waiting, this document is entitled “Possible Implications of Emergencies Act Across the IMVE Space”. I gather you’re familiar with it; is that fair?

    27-145-02

  183. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    The Clerk of the Privy Council mentioned last week that this document was available to attendees of the February 13th cabinet meeting. Do you recall it being distributed?

    27-145-12

  184. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    You attended the cabinet meeting on February 13th, correct?

    27-145-23

  185. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I guess my question is, would expect to have received notice from the clerk that this document was being made available or distributed for that meeting, if it was?

    27-145-26

  186. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right. Would all attendees at cabinet have had the security clearance necessary to view this document?

    27-146-08

  187. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. To the best of your recollection, was the content of this document related fully and accurately at the cabinet meeting?

    27-146-16

  188. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’m going to quote you a statement that the Clerk of the Privy Council made in her evidence on Friday, so I want you to just listen closely. If we need to pull up the transcript, we can. The clerk stated: "Cabinet was aware that CSIS had not assessed a threat to the security of Canada necessary to trigger their authorities under the CSIS Act." (As read). Are you able to agree with that statement?

    27-146-21

  189. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, thank you, sir. I just -- I want to move on to discuss the ability of the federal government to sort of disclose CSIS’ bottom-line assessment to provincial governments, and premiers in particular, because we're aware that there was a First Minister's meeting on the morning of February 14th, and I'm interested in whether CSIS's bottom-line conclusions would have been able to be disclosed at that meeting. And I want to put two of those bottom-line conclusions to you, sir. One is that CSIS's assessment that the protests did not pose a threat to the security of Canada as defined in section 2 of the CSIS Act, would the federal government have been at liberty to disclose that information on February 14th at the First Minister's meeting?

    27-147-13

  190. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Well, if there was information of a threat, for example, in the Province of Saskatchewan, how would that information then be conveyed to the provincial government? Somebody must have the authority to release it. Is that fair?

    27-148-07

  191. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I just have a couple more questions. We heard some evidence the other day that the NSIA asked the RCMP to produce a threat assessment for the use of the clerk of the Privy Council on February 14th. I'm wondering, was CSIS asked to prepare a similar threat assessment for the clerk of the Privy Council on February 14th?

    27-148-21

  192. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I just have one final question. This one's more of sort of personal interest, and it's to Ms. Tessier. Ms. Tessier, you've had a lengthy career with CSIS, and I understand that you would have been employed with CSIS following the September 11th attacks; is that correct?

    27-149-06

  193. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    We've heard that CSIS's threat assessment remained at medium throughout the Freedom Convoy. Can you advise whether CSIS's threat assessment exceeded medium in the period immediately following the September 11th attacks?

    27-149-13

  194. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay.

    27-149-25

  195. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Thank you for answering my questions.

    27-150-04

  196. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good evening, Minister. My name is Mike Morris and I'm counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Sir, will you agree with me that after the Cabinet meeting on February 13th, the prime minister was left with full discretion as to whether the Emergencies Act would be invoked the next day following his consultation with First Ministers?

    27-307-07

  197. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes.

    27-307-17

  198. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Understood. My understanding is that Cabinet did not meet again then though, you know, until after the Emergencies Act was invoked. Is that fair?

    27-307-24

  199. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So the prime minister did not then take the consultations back to Cabinet before invoking the Act, you'll agree with me?

    27-308-01

  200. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I understand your answer. Minister Blair, I understand you're the President of the Privy Council, correct?

    27-308-09

  201. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    On Friday we heard evidence from the deputy clerk of the Privy Council, and I'd like to pull up the transcript for some of the evidence given by the deputy clerk, Ms. Drouin. So Registrar, if we could pull up the transcript, it's TRN00000026? And spoiler alert, we're going to be looking at page 300 of the transcript where Ms. Drouin is giving evidence. All right. It will be 300 -- right, not on the PDF, but on the document itself. So can you go down just a little bit further? "Remember" is where I want to start. Okay. Up just a bit. Okay. This is Ms. Drouin's evidence from last week, and she says: "Remember that we also discussed today that the moment we talk about the Emergency Act, that can trigger some reactions, and that was the CSIS assessment on the risk of triggering or invoking the Emergency Act. So we were quite aware that the moment that we talk publicly about the Emergency Act, the timeline to take a decision is very short. It can be a go or no-go, but you cannot wait." (As read) I'm just going to ask you to scroll down a little bit further now please. Scroll down a little bit further. Thank you. No, no, up. Okay. Next paragraph: "You cannot put that in the domain without taking a decision, and what we were afraid happened very rapidly. The moment we hang off the call on the FMM, it was already out there that we were thinking about the Emergency Act. So this is why, you know, we were very concerned and concerne that talking about the Emergency Act will request a very rapid decision, a no or a yes, but a rapid decision." (As read) Now, you can probably anticipate my next question, Minister, but it is, did you share Ms. Drouin's concern about publicly talking about the Emergencies Act?

    27-308-13

  202. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. My friend for counsel for the Government of Alberta referred to your interview with Mercedes Stephenson. I understand you also gave an interview with Rosemary Barton on Sunday morning, February 13th. Is that correct, Minister?

    27-310-17

  203. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And that was on Rosemary Barton Live. I understand at that time, you advised Ms. Barton that the IRG had been having daily discussions about the potential invocation of the Emergencies Act. Is that fair?

    27-310-23

  204. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Do you recall telling Ms. Barton that, "The police now have new authorities and very effective tools. We just need the police to do their job"?

    27-311-05

  205. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And do you also recall stating that it was somewhat inexplicable why enforcement was not happening?

    27-311-13

  206. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Did you think that your statements might suggest that a decision needed to be made fairly promptly about invoking the Emergencies Act or not?

    27-311-21

  207. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I understand that you were not present at the First Minister's meeting held on February 14th; is that correct?

    27-311-27

  208. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Now, in your view, would it have been appropriate to advise what that meeting was going to be about before the start of the meeting?

    27-312-04

  209. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    If you were a premier, would you have preferred being advised in advance about what a First Minister's meeting is going to about?

    27-312-10

  210. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Last question. Thank you, Commissioner. Minister, from your perspective, would there have been any risk to advising the premiers about what the First Minister's meeting was going to be about?

    27-312-17

  211. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. That’s my last question, so thank you for answering them.

    27-312-24

  212. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good afternoon. My name is Mike Morris. I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Minister, you’ve had a long day so far. I don’t think you’ll be too much longer with me.

    28-204-03

  213. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Minister, will you agree with me that the RCMP and the Saskatchewan Highway Patrol worked together and worked very well in response to demonstrations in Saskatchewan?

    28-204-09

  214. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And will you agree with me that the Federal Government was never advised that demonstrations in Saskatchewan could not be dealt with using existing authorities?

    28-204-14

  215. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Weill you agree with me that the Federal Government was never advised that demonstrations in Saskatchewan could not be dealt with using existing authorities?

    28-204-20

  216. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. we’ve heard quite a bit about a Cabinet meeting on February 13th, a First Ministers Meeting on February 14th. I’d like to ask you about whether there were some other meetings, however. And in particular, whether there was a Caucus meeting between the Cabinet meeting on February 13th and the invocation of the Emergencies Act on February 14th. Was there a caucus meeting?

    28-204-25

  217. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And do you know what time that Caucus meeting would have occurred?

    28-205-07

  218. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Would it have occurred before or after the First Ministers Meeting, sir?

    28-205-11

  219. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. do you recall whether Caucus was advised that the Emergencies Act was going to be invoked that day?

    28-205-15

  220. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Was there a meeting with leaders of the official opposition or the opposition leaders that day as well?

    28-205-24

  221. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Did you attend that meeting?

    28-206-01

  222. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Do you know whether it would have been in the morning or the afternoon?

    28-206-07

  223. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Do you recall whether the opposition leaders were advised that the Emergencies Act was going to be invoked that day?

    28-206-12

  224. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I want to talk just briefly about the numbers at the Ottawa protest, because it’s my understanding they fluctuated greatly, you know, from the weekend to during the week. Is that fair? That there were a lot of people there on the weekends, but not necessarily during the weekdays?

    28-206-21

  225. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    So I mean, this is a bit of an assumption, but perhaps people had other things to do during the week, such as going to work? Would that be your understanding as well?

    28-207-01

  226. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So by the time Monday rolls around then, I assume that the numbers have dwindled out significantly in Ottawa and they don’t start to build up again until Friday before the weekend? Is that fair?

    28-207-07

  227. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. We know the Emergencies Act was invoked on a Monday. It was February 14th. My question is, could an assessment not have been done throughout the week as to whether an invocation was necessary, given the numbers would have been limited during the week before the anticipated build up on the weekend? Put another way, could you have given the police an opportunity to exercise their operational plan before deciding to invoke the Emergencies Act?

    28-207-12

  228. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. Commissioner, I just have one more question. Am I still under time or over enough that I can ask that one?

    28-208-16

  229. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, Commissioner. Minister, can you tell us when you found out on the 14th that the Prime Minister had made the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act?

    28-208-21

  230. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Thank you, sir.

    28-209-03

  231. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good evening, Minister. My name is Mike Morris and I'm counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan.

    28-287-13

  232. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I’m just going to advise, I'm better in English than I am in French and my translation is not working, so it will probably work better if we can speak in English when possible, okay?

    28-287-17

  233. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, sir.

    28-287-23

  234. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Minister, I understand that the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat is contained within the Privy Council Office, correct?

    28-287-26

  235. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And Michael Vandergrift is the DM of Intergovernmental Affairs, correct?

    28-288-02

  236. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And I understand he was the DM in January and February of this year as well; is that correct?

    28-288-05

  237. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And there is an FPT Intergovernmental Affairs group, correct?

    28-288-09

  238. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I expect that group was very active in January and February of this year, particularly with respect to attempting to coordinate COVID related responses. Is that fair?

    28-288-14

  239. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. But in spite of that, this particular group that DM Vandergrift led, didn’t meet with respect to the Emergencies Act until after it was invoked, correct?

    28-289-02

  240. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Right. And I'm just going to quote from the interview summary for what DM Vandergrift said. I expect this is exactly as you related it. DM Vandergrift explained that the reason for this was to avoid a leak of the subject matter such that premiers could express their views at the meeting without creating a public expectation around it. That sounds like it accords with what you just explained, correct?

    28-289-16

  241. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. But you would agree with me that the provincial governments would have been better able to prepare for the meeting if they knew what it was going to be about beforehand, would you not?

    28-289-26

  242. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. We heard a little bit from Ms. Drouin, Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council last week. And in her view, once it became known that the government, the federal government was considering using the Emergencies Act, a decision would need to be made very quickly about whether to invoke it or not. Did you share that view as well?

    28-290-08

  243. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Well, actually CSIS offered that view as well, didn’t they?

    28-290-22

  244. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. But you're certainly aware that on February 13th Minister Blair did -- well, I’m aware of two interviews, one with Rosemary Barton and one with Mercedes Stephenson where he indicated to those people, National media, that the federal government was considering invoking the Emergencies Act. You're aware of that, correct?

    28-290-26

  245. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you. I'm going to ask the clerk to pull up a document. It’s SSM.CAN00002370. And just so you know, Minister, this document is listed as “FMM Feb 14 Q and A” so I assume it’s Q and As that were prepared for the First Ministers meeting. Were you aware that such things were prepared?

    28-291-13

  246. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that it wasn’t prepared for the First Ministers’ Meeting? It was ---

    28-291-25

  247. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And I just want you to take a look at the first two questions on this Q&A. The first one is: " Why did you wait so long to act?." And the second is: "When will this come into effect?" Will you agree with me that these Q&As appear to have been drafted as if the decision to invoke the Act had already been made by the time of the First Ministers’ Meeting?

    28-292-06

  248. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Or perhaps whoever drafted it may have been mistaken; is that your view, then?

    28-292-24

  249. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Sir, Commission counsel took you to some of the things that were said during the First Ministers’ Meeting. I would like to address some of the things that weren’t said during the call. Will you agree with me that there was no discussion about there being an approved operational plan to clear the protest in Ottawa?

    28-293-10

  250. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    But not at the First Ministers’ Meeting. That’s what I’m interested in, sir.

    28-293-19

  251. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And will you agree with me that at that FMM meeting, the federal government did not advise that no police services said they needed additional authorities?

    28-293-24

  252. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Will you agree with me that there was no discussion of the specific measures that would be included in the Emergency Economic Measures Order?

    28-294-04

  253. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I think your counsel can probably take it up with you because they have some time at the end. I have limited time, unfortunately. But would you agree with me that there was no discussion, for example, of how credit unions may be affected by the order, or how insurers might be affected by the order, no acknowledgement that they’re provincial Crown corporations that provide motor vehicle insurance that could be affected by the order. Will you agree with me on those points?

    28-294-17

  254. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I think I can probably help out a little bit. The document that Commission counsel showed you was prepared by the Government of Canada, so I just want you to confirm that you have no reason to believe that it was inaccurate in terms of what it put in or left out in terms of the summary, do you?

    28-295-08

  255. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes.

    28-295-19

  256. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And you’ll agree with me that several of the premiers, including Premier Mo, expressed concern that invoking the Act could enflame circumstance?

    28-295-24

  257. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And, in fact, that was similar to a concern that had been raised by CSIS, correct?

    28-295-28

  258. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And several of the premiers indicated that demonstrations were being adequately handled with existing authorities including Premier Mo; is that fair?

    28-296-04

  259. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Sir, do you know when the Caucus Meeting was held on February 14th?

    28-296-17

  260. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. So it would have been before the First Ministers’ Meeting, then?

    28-296-24

  261. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    We know that the prime minister did a press conference at 4:30 p.m. on the 14th where he announced that the Emergencies Act was being invoked. Did cabinet receive any notice that the prime minister had made that decision before 4:30 p.m.?

    28-296-28

  262. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Minister ---

    28-297-17

  263. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    One last question, Commissioner. Minister, how and when did you find out that the prime minister had made his decision to invoke the Act?

    28-297-21

  264. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Thank you, Minister. I appreciate you answering my questions today.

    28-298-03

  265. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good afternoon. My name is Mike Morris and I'm Counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Minister, spoiler alert, I hope to get you to agree with me as much as my colleague did just a couple minutes ago. I guess we'll see where we get to. But, Minister, I think I can start out with some easy ones. You're familiar with Farm Credit Canada, which is a federal Crown corporation; is that fair?

    30-143-04

  266. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    You grew up on the Prairies. It used to be called Farm Credit Corporation. If I call it FCC, you'll understand what I mean; is that fair?

    30-143-14

  267. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And are you aware that FCC is headquartered in Regina?

    30-143-18

  268. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. And that it provides loans to farmers; correct?

    30-143-21

  269. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And Farm Credit Canada would have been a financial institution subject to the Emergency Economic Measures Order; correct?

    30-143-24

  270. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And if I just call that "the Order", you'll understand what I mean; is that fair?

    30-143-28

  271. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I want to refer you to an article from Farmer's Forum, which is self described as the largest circulation farm newspaper in Ontario. So I'm going to ask the Clerk to pull a document. It's POESAS0000003. And just while we're pulling this up, it's the May 3rd, 2022 article from Farmer's Forum entitled "Read the Documents: Farm Credit complied list of 9 names for possible blacklisting." So we can see that on the screen there now. And I'm just going to read from the first three paragraphs of the article. So we'll just have to go down. There. Perfect. " Farm Credit Canada compiled a list of nine people to be potentially blacklisted because of possible participation in the Freedom Convoy protest in February, according to internal FCC emails acquired by Farmer Forum through an access to information request. The access to information documents revealed that FCC employees were instructed to report the names of customers who were involved in the Freedom Convoy in Ottawa after the Emergencies Act was enacted on Feb. 14. The federal lending agency compiled a list of nine people by viewing Twitter accounts and online media posts, as well as drawing from conversations with customers." Now I expect we can agree that it's not surprising that FCC instructed its employees to report in this manner because FCC was required to do so under the terms of the Order; is that fair?

    30-144-03

  272. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Sure.

    30-145-15

  273. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    We can look at the emails ---

    30-145-18

  274. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Understood. It was the ---

    30-145-27

  275. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    I think we should look at the documents referred to from that Access to Information Request, so I'm going to ask the Clerk to bring up POESAS0000004. And these are the documents which were obtained by Farmer's Forum and that are referred to in this article. And I'm just going to ask that we go to the third page of this PDF, please? There. Perfect. So we can see this is an email with the subject line, “How the Emergencies Act Affects FCC,” and it’s to Operations Field Staff, dated February 23rd, 2022. So I’d just like us to scroll down to the third paragraph, please? Stop there. The third paragraph begins: “If you become aware of potential customer involvement in blockades, occupations and other support of activity related to the ‘Freedom Convoy,’ you must submit a tip to the Customer Diligence Centre (CDC)....” So this is the morning of February 23rd, and we know that the Order was no longer in place later that day because, of course, the Emergency Declaration was revoked on February 23rd, later that day. Is that fair, Minister?

    30-146-07

  276. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’d just like us to scroll down to page 5 of the PDF now, please? And this should be an email dated February 25th? Yes, there it is. So we see this is an email dated February 25th, with the subject, “Emergencies Act - Customers Identified” and the content of the email indicates that the Centre is telling the recipient that they’d like to follow-up regarding customers that have been, “identified as possibly participating in the 2022 Freedom Convoy.” So we’ve agreed, I think, or we can agree, that as of February 25th there was no requirement under the Order to conduct this follow-up; is that fair?

    30-147-05

  277. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Understood.

    30-147-22

  278. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I just want to continue on to the next page of the PDF, which is page 6. I appreciate you’re seeing this for the first time, Minister, and I understand that’s difficult. But this appears to be a spreadsheet entitled, “2022 Freedom Convoy - Tips”; has a column for Tip; for Date; for Customer Name, and Preliminary Findings. And I would just like us to slowly scroll to the very end of all of these PDFs, looking at the dates as we can -- as it goes by. Yeah, you can keep scrolling; that’s a good pace. So we’ve seen February 23rd, keep scrolling. Now we see February 24th, and keep scrolling. I think there’s one more page and we’ll get to the end here. Oh, another page, more February 24th. Keep going, yeah. So last one is number 9. Okay, go up a little bit. And this would appear to indicate that the last tip in the spreadsheet was received February 25th, there’s a description, I gather, of the preliminary investigation at this point. So you know, it appears -- and I appreciate you’re viewing this for the first time -- that FCC was still investigating tips relating to the Freedom Convoy 2022 as of February 25th. And I don’t know when it stopped investigating tips, and I expect you may not know either. Is that fair, Minister?

    30-147-28

  279. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I expected you might answer that, and that’s a fair answer. Aside from FCC, can you identify any other federal financial institutions which were subject to the Order for us?

    30-148-27

  280. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. No, that’s fair. It was a privilege to speak with you, Minister. Thank you very much for answering my questions.

    30-149-06

  281. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Good evening, Panel. My name is Mike Morris and I’m counsel for the Government of Saskatchewan. Mr. Brodhead, just at the outset, I want to make something clear. At the First Ministers’ Meeting, Premier Moe expressed the view that the Emergencies Act was not wanted and not needed in Saskatchewan; correct?

    30-299-25

  282. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Maybe sounded reasonable but wouldn’t be perceived that way; is that fair?

    30-300-05

  283. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And certainly did not want the Act to apply to Saskatchewan; correct?

    30-300-08

  284. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, thank you. I’d like us to take a look at a document, so I’m going to ask the Clerk to pull up SSM.CAN00006920. And while we’re waiting, I’ll let you know that this an email from Ms. Charette, Clerk of the Privy Council, to actually everyone on this panel at 8:24 a.m. on February 14th. So we can see there, 8:24 a.m. from Ms. Charette: "Good morning, all." There’s something that’s privileged, but then she’s detailing work that seems to be going on: "Other products in train: FMM script with Qs and As; comms news release and BG…" -- which I expect means background -- "…decision note for PM." Then, at the end, she says: "Others still in the machine." Mr. Brodhead, when she says, “Others still in the machine,” can we take that as they were being worked on at that time?

    30-300-12

  285. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Well, she says: "Only one I have seen is FMM script." And then she says: "Others still in the machine." So I take it that means those are in progress; would that be fair?

    30-301-07

  286. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, if we could go onto a different document, then. Well, before we do, does anyone else have a view on that that they’re able to express.

    30-301-16

  287. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Yes, absolutely.

    30-301-21

  288. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’m going to ask the clerk to pull up the email that was referred by counsel for Alberta before. It’s SSM.CAN00002665, and this is the email thread that was entitled “Presser Tomorrow”. And I’d like us to go down to the bottom of the second page of the PDF. Right there is good. We can seen an email from a person named Vanessa at the PMO to a number of other people, including others at the PMO, indicating: "Presser tracking for 4:00 p.m. This is not to be shared publicly until FMM over and PM updated itinerary is out, please." And her email there, of course, is at 11:05, I believe, if we just go up -- 11:05 a.m. So my understanding is the First Ministers’ Meeting would have been going on at that point. Ms. Telford, was the purpose in delaying the announcement of the press conference so that the premiers would not be offended?

    30-301-24

  289. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’d like us to go to the middle of the first page of this PDF, and it will be in the email at 1:43 p.m. There it is, from Vanessa again, to David Taylor and others, stating: "We just finished speech prep with PM. Alex is editing his remarks and will be able to share with this group as soon as he is done." So I gather, at this point in time, 1:43 p.m. on the 14th, the Prime Minister has already rehearsed his speech that he’s going to be giving at 4:30 p.m.; is that fair?

    30-302-22

  290. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. He wasn’t rehearsing two versions of a speech was he, one where he was announcing the invocation of the Emergencies Act and another where he wasn’t; was he?

    30-303-10

  291. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. We heard evidence from the Clerk of the Privy Council some time ago and her evidence was that the decision note was sent from the PCO to the PMO at 3:41 p.m. on February 14th. We can pull up a document if you need me to, or I can just ask you to take my word for it. And if that’s the case, are you familiar with the decision note? I gather you’ve likely seen it before; is that fair?

    30-303-19

  292. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. A fairly lengthy document with a number of appendices; correct?

    30-303-28

  293. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    And if it was received at 3:41 p.m., do we know at what time it would have been returned with the Prime Minister’s initials to the PCO?

    30-304-03

  294. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, so obviously some time before 4:30 in the afternoon, then; correct?

    30-304-11

  295. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    That would not have given the Prime Minister much, if any time, to have read all of that material; would you agree with me?

    30-304-14

  296. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay, I’m going to ask each of you a very similar question. Ms. Telford, what I’d like to know is when you found out that the prime minister would be announcing the invocation of the Emergencies Act at the 4:30 p.m. press conference.

    30-304-27

  297. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. Do we know when the announcement went out to the press gallery that the conference was going to be held at 4:30 p.m.?

    30-305-08

  298. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Mr. Clow?

    30-305-13

  299. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I’ll explore that just briefly if I can. Let’s call the Emergencies Act Track 1; and let’s call whatever the other decision could have been Track 2. Was there material prepared for a Track 2 presentation at 4:30 p.m.?

    30-305-27

  300. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    They would have been.

    30-306-07

  301. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Last question -- but was there any draft material prepared in the event that the decision was to not invoke the Emergencies Act?

    30-306-10

  302. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    You would be familiar if there was though, wouldn’t you, given your position?

    30-306-14

  303. Michael J. Morris, Counsel (SK)

    Okay. I appreciate the entire panel answering my questions. Thank you very much.

    30-306-25