Misha Boutilier

Title
Counsel
Organization / Affiliation
Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC)

Misha Boutilier spoke 146 times across 1 day of testimony.

  1. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Good morning, Commissioner. Misha Boutilier, Commission Counsel. And today, we'll be hearing from Inspector Russell Lucas from the Ottawa Police Service.

    09-007-09

  2. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Good morning, Inspector Lucas.

    09-007-27

  3. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    We met in the summer when you were interviewed by Commission Counsel on August 19th, 2022. Do you remember that interview?

    09-008-02

  4. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And I'd like to call up WTS00000024. Inspector Lucas, do you recognise this document as a summary of that interview?

    09-008-06

  5. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And I understand that you've reviewed and adopted the contents of that summary; is that correct?

    09-008-11

  6. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And are there any corrections you'd like to make to that summary?

    09-008-15

  7. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-008-22

  8. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And that's your only correction?

    09-008-25

  9. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Thank you, Inspector Lucas. So at the time the Freedom Convoy arrived -- or at the time of the Freedom Convoy in January 2022, what was your role within the OPS organizational structure?

    09-009-01

  10. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Who headed the Special Events Unit? Who was the Staff Sergeant in charge?

    09-009-10

  11. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And who did you report to?

    09-009-14

  12. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And who did Superintendent Rheaume report to?

    09-009-18

  13. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And could you give us kind of a 30-second elevator pitch, if you will, of -- about what Special Events’ responsibilities are in the context of a major event?

    09-009-22

  14. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you told us earlier that on January 21st you became Incident Commander. How did you come to serve as Incident Commander?

    09-010-03

  15. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So is it fair to say that you assumed this role and were not directed by anyone within OPS to assume the role?

    09-010-09

  16. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And what did you understand your role to be as Incident Commander?

    09-010-13

  17. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you mentioned you were supervising the planning process and the development of the operational plan. In addition, once the convoy arrived in Ottawa, would you also be in charge of making operational decisions on how OPS should respond to the convoy?

    09-010-22

  18. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So is it fair to say that during your shifts, you were the Inspector responsible for making operational decisions?

    09-011-05

  19. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And in your summary, you told us that Superintendent Rheaume was the initial Event Commander. What was his role and how did it differ from your role as Incident Commander?

    09-011-09

  20. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you mentioned in your summary as well that Acting Deputy Chief Patricia Ferguson also provided strategic oversight. What was -- what was her role and how did it differ from Superintendent Rheaume’s role?

    09-011-19

  21. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So is it fair to say that both Superintendent Rheaume and Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson were at the strategic level of command?

    09-012-03

  22. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you mentioned that you learned about the Freedom Convoy for the first time on January 18th and that on January 21st you began to act as the Incident Commander. And I’d like to explore with you what your understanding was of the Freedom Convoy as of January 21st. So my first question is, what did you understand the Freedom Convoy’s goal to be as of January 21st?

    09-012-07

  23. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. I would like to pull up OPS00002876. So if you could scroll down to page -- yeah, that’s good. So Inspector Lucas, you can see that this is an email that Kevin Kennedy sent you on January 21st. Do you recall receiving this email?

    09-012-19

  24. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And then if you scroll down, you’ll see that Staff Sergeant Kennedy -- scroll further down, please -- was forward an email from Sergeant Sean Key. What was Sergeant Key’s role in the Freedom Convoy?

    09-012-27

  25. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if you scroll down just a little further. Thank you. So you’ll see that Sergeant Key writes, “This convoy is to come from all” -- and this is in the first paragraph, Inspector. Sergeant Key writes: “This convoy is to come from all parts of Canada with the intent of disrupting Ottawa and specifically Parliament Hill in an attempt to force the government to repeal the COVID measures.” Does this align with your understanding of what the convoy’s goal was at this point in time, Inspector?

    09-013-09

  26. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you mentioned disruption. Was your understanding that disrupting downtown Ottawa and Parliament Hill was the means by which the convoy hoped to achieve its goal.

    09-013-27

  27. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Would you -- and so if you could -- let me ask a follow-up question. At this time, how long did you expect the Freedom Convoy to stay in Ottawa?

    09-014-08

  28. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so if we go to the paragraph starting with “In the fall of 2021”, it says: “The vaccine mandate is a clear target of their anger. The goal of the convoy is to remain in Ottawa until the restrictions were repealed.” Is -- does this align with what you understood to be the goal of the Freedom Convoy as of January 21st?

    09-014-21

  29. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So is it fair to say that at this time, you did not expect that the convoy’s messaging about their intent to stay would align with what would actually materialize when the convoy arrived.

    09-015-07

  30. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we scroll further down, we see that in speaking with the OPP, they had stood up two analysts who will be dedicated to this event. Do you recall learning around January 21st that OPP was going to be collecting intelligence on the Freedom Convoy?

    09-015-13

  31. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And further down in the paragraph it reads, they, OPP, have declared this a high- risk event as they effect -- expect traffic disruptions and illegal activity. Do you recall being aware as of January 21st that OPP had designated the Freedom Convoy as a high-risk event?

    09-015-21

  32. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I'd like to pull up OPS00002878. So if you could just scroll down? Keep scrolling. So we see here that -- and just a little more down - - on the 21st, you forwarded this email chain to Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson. Do you recall forwarding the email chain to Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson?

    09-016-01

  33. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And why did you forward the email chain to her?

    09-016-08

  34. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So it's fair to say you thought this was a significant enough event that the executive of OPS needed to be appraised [sic] at an early stage?

    09-016-14

  35. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if you could just scroll up a bit? So we see that Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson shared this email with Chief Sloly and then Deputy Chief Bell. Did you have any kind of direct interactions with either Chief Sloly or Deputy Chief Bell during the Freedom Convoy outside of meetings or team meetings or briefings?

    09-016-18

  36. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you were aware though that Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson, that it was her role to relay information that you were providing to her up to Chief Sloly and to the extent it pertained to Intelligence to Deputy Chief Bell?

    09-016-27

  37. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. You can take that email down now. So I'd like to turn to the role of intelligence in planning. Was it your understanding that planning for the Freedom Convoy should be intelligence led?

    09-017-07

  38. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you mentioned that was the direction we'd been pivoting to. Who gave that direction?

    09-017-16

  39. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so we've heard evidence at the Commission during the past week of hearings that intelligence-led planning was something that was important to Chief Sloly. Were you aware that the former Chief wanted planning to be intelligence led?

    09-017-23

  40. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So how did the Intelligence Directorate share intelligence with you and your special events planners?

    09-018-01

  41. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Do you recall if the Intelligence Directorate shared documents titled threat assessment with the -- with you and your Planning Team before the Freedom Convoy arrived?

    09-018-09

  42. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So could we pull up OPS00003085? So if you could just scroll down. So we see this is email from Sergeant K to you on January 26th, and it says, "Attached is the Intelligence report from OPS." And then if we scroll up, we see that you forwarded that report to Superintendent Rheaume and Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson. Do you see the title of that report as "Convoy Jan 22 Threat Assessment V1"?

    09-018-17

  43. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Does seeing this email refresh your memory that the Intelligence Directorate shared threat assessment documents with you before the Freedom Convoy arrived?

    09-018-26

  44. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I'd now like to pull up OPS3086, which is the threat assessment that you forwarded to Superintendent Rheaume and Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson on the 26th. And we see here that this is dated January 25th. To the best of your recollection, did you receive this on the 25th, or did you only receive it when it was sent to you on the 26th?

    09-019-03

  45. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So if you could -- and do you recall reviewing or reading this document?

    09-019-12

  46. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So if we could scroll down to the top of page 3? Right there is good. So in the second paragraph, we see, "Therefore, we expect to see a huge volume of vehicles and large transport trucks clogging city roads..." Was it your understanding from this threat assessment that there would be large numbers of vehicles arriving in Ottawa as part of the Freedom Convoy?

    09-019-16

  47. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And in your summary, I think you referenced a previous truck protest in Ottawa with somewhere around the range of 20 to 30 trucks. Do you recall that?

    09-020-05

  48. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So when you saw that the Intelligence Directorate was saying we expect to see a huge volume of vehicles and large transport trucks, and keeping in mind that you didn't have an exact number, were you expecting it would be more than the 20 or 30 trucks that you'd seen in the past?

    09-020-14

  49. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could just scroll down to page 5 of the document, right here, the section what this means for event planners, and I'll just give you a bit of time to review this before I ask some questions.

    09-020-23

  50. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So from your understanding of this section, what this means for event planners, did you think the Intelligence Directorate understood the Freedom Convoy to be similar to or unlike previous events that Ottawa had experienced?

    09-020-28

  51. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So specifically here, the first bullet reads: "This event is going to be bigger in crowd size than any demo in recent history, possibly on par with Canada Day events, but more disruptive." So would you have understood from this that the Freedom Convoy was likely to cause more significant disruption than other significant events that Ottawa had experienced before?

    09-021-09

  52. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And you mentioned the number of vehicles was such that you were not going to stop them, and I'm going to circle back to that number later. But before I do, I just wanted to close off this piece. The bullet starting with "In 6 years" reads: "In 6 years of working large demonstration events from the intelligence point of view, the writer has never seen such widespread community action..." Did you understand the Intelligence Directorate to be saying that the level of mobilisation and support for this protest across Canada was unprecedented?

    09-022-03

  53. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Right. And if we could just scroll to page 3, the bottom of page 3. Further down, just slightly. So we read in the last paragraph, the writer says: "These conditions create grounds for passionate emotions." Is that consistent with what you were just describing about the divisive nature of mandates?

    09-022-24

  54. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I'd like to circle back now to the topic of numbers, since you mentioned it. As of January 26th, how many convoys did you understand would be travelling to Ottawa?

    09-023-06

  55. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Do you have a specific recollection of how many convoys you were aware of as of January 26th, which is the date you received this threat assessment?

    09-023-13

  56. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Could we pull up OPS14540? Sorry, it should be OPS00014540. So Inspector Lucas, do you recognise this document as your notes?

    09-023-19

  57. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could go to page 7. So we see these are your notes for January 26th, and scrolling down further down the page, we see there's a statement at 9:30, "Conference call with OPP, RCMP and PPS." Do you recall participating in this call?

    09-023-25

  58. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And what was the purpose of this call?

    09-024-04

  59. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And the second bullet reads, "OPP - now 11 convoys". Does this refresh your memory that as of January 26th you knew that 11 convoys would be travelling to Ottawa?

    09-024-09

  60. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And what was your understanding of how many vehicles were in the Western convoy at this time?

    09-024-17

  61. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we scroll down just a little bit further, we see a statement. Actually, could you read the statement that starts with "West Group" to me, the last bullet?

    09-024-26

  62. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And who told you that West group was staying until mandates were lifted?

    09-025-04

  63. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So that was the intelligence you were hearing as of January 26th, that the Western convoy were staying until mandates were lifted?

    09-025-09

  64. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And could I just pull up OPP3058? Sorry, OPS00003058. So you'll see, this is an email that Peter McKenna forwarded to you, and it's titled ERPLT: Convoy for Freedoms. Do you recall that before the Freedom Convoy arrived you were receiving updates from the Ontario Provincial Police police liaison teams that were monitoring the convoy?

    09-025-13

  65. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-025-22

  66. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we just scroll down a bit. A little further. Right there. So we see: "Quick update...for West convoy from...officer who counted 480 [vehicles]. It spans 50km's..." Does this refresh your memory as to how many vehicles you understood to be on the Western convoy as of the afternoon of January 26th?

    09-025-25

  67. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-026-11

  68. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And did you have a ballpark estimate of how many people might arrive in Ottawa as of January 26th?

    09-026-15

  69. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Yes.

    09-026-19

  70. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-026-26

  71. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Could you scroll down to page 3, please? A little further down. Just a bit further. All right. So we see there’s a bullet in this email saying: “OPS/PPS are expecting 10,000 ppl for the event Sat[urday] 29th at 12pm.” Does this refresh your memory as to how many people the Ottawa Police Service was expecting to attend the Freedom Convoy at this point in time?

    09-026-28

  72. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So fair to say that 10,000 people you were expecting would attend on the Saturday, and you weren’t sure how many people would stay on the Sunday and going forward?

    09-027-12

  73. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And in your summary, you mention that by January 25th or 26th, your concerns about the Freedom Convoy were becoming heightened. Do you recall that statement?

    09-027-22

  74. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So is it fair to say that your heightened concerns were about the potential for violence or, for instance, for people attempting to storm Parliament Hill?

    09-028-03

  75. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And as of the 26th, did you also have concerns or heightened concerns that convoy participants would remain in Ottawa beyond the January 29th/30th weekend?

    09-028-13

  76. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so I’d like to just briefly pull up OPS3215. Sorry, four zeros 3215. So we see this is an email sent to you on January 26th from an INTERSECT account, and it says it’s sent by Kim. Do you recall receiving this email from an INTERSECT officer on the 26th?

    09-028-20

  77. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so we see that you replied to it. And if you just scroll down a bit? Further down. So do you see the text: “Do we want to commit to dates, it could last much longer” Do you see that that’s in a different colour from the other text?

    09-028-27

  78. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Is that because you wrote that text in a different colour as your comments?

    09-029-08

  79. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So a week or so. That would be up until February 4th, 5th, 6th? Is that about right?

    09-030-04

  80. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-030-08

  81. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so I’d like to pull up OPS00003403. And just for the record, this document was not in the list that went out to the parties because it was only posted to the party database this morning. But I understand that my colleague, Mr. Brousseau, has circulated it by email to the parties so that they have notice. So this document is titled: “MEETING NOTES Intelligence Directorate/Intelligence Services Branch January 27th, 2022”. And do you see your name in the line that starts with “R. Lucas”?

    09-030-12

  82. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So do you recall attending a meeting with the Intelligence Directorate at 12:30 on January 27th?

    09-030-23

  83. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So scrolling down further down the first page, we see a comment by M. Patterson. Is that Supt. Mark Patterson?

    09-030-27

  84. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And so he says: “Mentioned on INTERSECT call and would be prudent to bring to JIG - peaceful friendly convoy demo has become Project Bear Hug.” What did you understand him to mean by that statement?

    09-031-03

  85. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Is it fair to say that around this time, there was concern that the Freedom Convoy was morphing from a peaceful, lawful protest, to an event that could result in an unlawful occupation of Ottawa?

    09-031-11

  86. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we scroll to page 2 in the “TRAFFIC” section? So we the “R. Lucas: ‘Higher level’”. I think the second paragraph in this section. Do you see that, Insp. Lucas?

    09-031-21

  87. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So you say: “Our message to [everyone] is that there will be traffic chaos in the city for Saturday and Sunday for sure. Then it will come down to how many people actually leave or stay.” And you write: “I am praying for really, really cold weather.”

    09-031-26

  88. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So fair to say at this time you weren’t sure how many people were going to stay?

    09-032-08

  89. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Right. And that was the group that, as of January 26, had 480 vehicles?

    09-032-13

  90. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-032-17

  91. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And if we could just scroll down to page 3, the “MISCELLANEOUS” section? And further down. Further down. Yeah, that’s good. Could you just take a minute to read that paragraph to familiarize yourself with it?

    09-032-19

  92. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you wrote: “The main group may leave, but we will hundreds of trucks if not thousands who will stay here, they don’t have jobs to go back to, they have a $5M kitty to draw from.” So Inspector, as of January 27th, you were expecting hundreds of trucks to stay and you thought that thousands of trucks might potentially stay beyond the weekend?

    09-032-25

  93. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so by worst-case scenario, do you mean -- do you mean violence or the potential for violence?

    09-033-11

  94. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And then if we scroll down to the top of page 4, it says: “...our number 1 priority is public safety. We will not put our members at risk as we have a finite number of resources.” What did you mean by this statement?

    09-033-16

  95. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And at the of the page, it says, “We will not be arresting people for breaking windows.” Is it fair to say that as of the 27th, you did not think that OPS had enough resources to safely conduct enforcement activities once the convoy arrived?

    09-034-03

  96. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So was it -- is it fair to say that as of the 26th and the 27th you were concerned that OPS would be overwhelmed by the Freedom Convoy and that it wouldn’t have enough officers to staff the response?

    09-034-28

  97. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. If I could just briefly pull up OPS0003088. So this is an email you sent to Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson on the 26th attaching -- or including draft speaking points. And if we just scroll down, we see there’s a bullet that states that: “The sheer number of vehicles yet to be identified. May still overwhelm." Inspector Lucas, does this refresh your memory that you were concerned about OPS being overwhelmed as of January 26th?

    09-035-08

  98. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So just so I understand, are you saying that if convoy organizers and the convoy participants honoured the agreements they were making with the Police Liaison Team, then OPS could manage, but if those agreements were not honoured, then OPS could be overwhelmed?

    09-036-01

  99. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. I think now is a good time to turn to the operational -- January 28th operational plan, which is OPP00004262. And just scrolling down to the first page, the bottom of the first page, it says -- the write’s name is Staff Sergeant Key, so he’s the -- he’s the author of the plan. Is that right?

    09-036-08

  100. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And did you receive this plan on the 27th or the 28th? I see that it’s dated the 28th.

    09-036-16

  101. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And then if we just scroll down to page 2 of the plan, we see that it lists you as an authorizing authority. So did you approve this plan?

    09-036-21

  102. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And in your interview summary, you stated that it was made clear to you that Chief Sloly’s approval of this plan was required. Do you recall that statement?

    09-036-26

  103. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    How was it made clear to you that Chief Sloly’s approval was required?

    09-037-03

  104. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I think you said in your summary you -- that was a new requirement, to your understanding. Is that correct?

    09-037-08

  105. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I’ll just put it to you, if you scroll down just a bit, so there’s no line for Chief Sloly’s signature here, is there?

    09-037-12

  106. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And do you know why, if Chief Sloly needed to approval the plan, there’s no line for his signature?

    09-037-16

  107. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I’d like to turn to pages 7 through 8 of the plan. And scroll down to the threat assessment section. So it says OPS SIS. Do you recognize that as the OPS Security Intelligence Section?

    09-037-20

  108. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And who drafted this threat assessment? So what I’m trying to understand is did the planning team just copy/paste material that they received from the Security Intelligence Section or did they kind of read what they received from that at that section and include the points that they thought were relevant?

    09-037-26

  109. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And I’d just like to give you an opportunity to briefly read the bullets that appear here. If you could just scroll down so the Inspector can see all the bullets. And just further down onto the next page. And so I think -- sorry, Inspector. I’ll just give you a moment to review those bullets.

    09-038-07

  110. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So Inspector, I think you had said earlier that, in your mind, a prolonged occupation by the Freedom Convoy was the worst-case scenario for you. Am I remembering that right?

    09-038-16

  111. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And does the threat assessment section mention that risk?

    09-038-21

  112. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    When you received the threat assessment, were you concerned that this risk was not recorded?

    09-038-24

  113. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. But you would consider the -- let me -- would you consider the worst-case scenario to be a significant case?

    09-039-02

  114. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And would you normally expect significant risks to be reflected in the threat assessment section of an operational plan?

    09-039-06

  115. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so I’d like to ask how many days of operation did the operational plan address?

    09-039-11

  116. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could just turn to page 12 at the top of the page, please? So there’s the paragraph that reads: “The event will commence on Friday the 28th of January. [And] Current intelligence is not clear on the duration of the event. This plan will address the first two days of operation and is adaptable so that it can continue into additional dates.” Is that consistent with what you were just saying; that the plan covers the first three days?

    09-039-17

  117. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. What were OPS’s contingency plans if participants in the convoy events remained in Ottawa beyond the January 29th, 30th weekend, and if an occupation materialized?

    09-040-07

  118. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So you mentioned that it would depend on how many people stayed and how many people left. Was OPS -- sorry. Is it fair to say that OPS was waiting to see how many people would stay or leave, and would then develop a contingency plan on the 31st once it had that information?

    09-040-21

  119. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So ---

    09-041-16

  120. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So I just want to make sure I understand. So is it accurate that the contingency plans were not included in this document but were being developed, primarily by the Service Command Centre?

    09-041-19

  121. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And so when Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson testified to the Commission last week, she told us that the operational plan did not contain a contingency plan beyond the January -- if the protesters stayed beyond January 31st at noon. Is that consistent with what you were just saying; that those contingency plans are not in this plan?

    09-041-25

  122. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And Supt. Bernier, Robert Bernier is going to be testifying later today, he told us in his interview that he was concerned about a disconnect between Intelligence and Planning before the Freedom Convoy. In your view, does the absence of contingency plans in this operational plan reflect such a disconnect?

    09-042-04

  123. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And Inspector, in your summary you told us that starting on January 29th, so this is when the convoys are starting to arrive, OPS became progressively overwhelmed and that you and the National Capital Region Command Centre were drinking from the firehose as additional Freedom Convoy vehicles arrived in Ottawa. Do you recall that statement?

    09-042-22

  124. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Could you unpack that for the Commissioner, just to help us understand?

    09-043-02

  125. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Commissioner, could I just request an additional minute or two to conclude?

    09-044-12

  126. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. So Insp. Lucas, I would like to jump ahead by 17 days, in the interests of time, to the February 13th, 15th period. Do you recall that on February 13th there was an agreement between City and Freedom Convoy leaders to relocate Freedom Convoy vehicles from side streets to Wellington Street?

    09-044-16

  127. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Do you recall if OPS assisted in implementing that agreement?

    09-044-24

  128. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And as of February 15th, do you recall if there was still space on Wellington Street to relocate convoy vehicles to?

    09-045-04

  129. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Could I just pull up OPS00014410? (SHORT PAUSE)

    09-045-09

  130. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    OPS00014410. Or, sorry, 11410. I think that was a typo on my part. Yes, that's the document. Could you just go to page 14? Yeah, but then just scroll down a bit on page 14. So do you recognize -- just up a bit, sorry. Do you recognize this as the notes of a meeting of then Event Commander Bernier's Command table on February 15th?

    09-045-14

  131. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay.

    09-045-23

  132. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could just go to the top of page 19? We see there's a comment by Drummond, Superintendent Drummond, "Do we still have room left on Wellington?" And then we see that you say, "I think there is, but we'll check cameras and assess." Do you remember making a statement that you thought there was still room on Wellington Street at this meeting?

    09-045-26

  133. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. And if we could just scroll down to page 22 to the bottom of the page? So we see this is a statement by you, "gaps on Wellington" and then you list four intersections. Do you recognize this passage as you providing an update that you had checked and there was still space on Wellington to relocate vehicles to?

    09-046-11

  134. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Inspector Lucas. Those are my questions.

    09-046-19

  135. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Yes, a brief re-examination, Commissioner.

    09-099-03

  136. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    A brief re-examination, Commissioner.

    09-099-06

  137. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Yes. I'm Misha Boutilier, Commission Counsel.

    09-099-10

  138. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Inspector Lucas, in the context of pre-arrival planning, counsel for Chief Sloly asked you whether Chief Sloly gave you the autonomy you'd needed as Incident Commander. Do you recall that question?

    09-099-13

  139. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And you answered -- well, I think your answer began with "In the beginning". Do you recall giving that answer?

    09-099-18

  140. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Why did you say "In the beginning"?

    09-099-22

  141. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And what areas of -- what specific areas of Operations did you feel that you lost the autonomy to manage?

    09-100-06

  142. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    And what level of autonomy did you enjoy over the work of the Police Liaison Team during the week of January 31st?

    09-100-25

  143. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. I’d just like to explore one last point with you arising from counsel for the Ottawa Police Service’s re-examination. Do you recall stating, in response to a question from counsel for the OPS, that you deployed Public Order Units on the January 29th/30th weekend to project the appearance of a strong police presence or words to that effect?

    09-101-14

  144. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Okay. Could we pull up WTS00000024? And just go to page 8, please. The second paragraph on page 8. And Insp. Lucas, this is your interview summary. I’d like to take you to the statement: “He sent POU officers stationed on Parliament Hill to patrol the protest site in teams to project a strong police presence and attempt to conceal OPS’s staffing shortages from protestors.”

    09-101-22

  145. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    So was that the purpose of sending the POU teams out? To try to hide from protestors that OPS was understaffed?

    09-102-05

  146. Misha Boutilier, Counsel (POEC)

    Thank you, Commissioner. Those are my questions.

    09-102-20