Volume 24 (November 16, 2022)

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

The next witness is Mr. John Ossowski.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 7 24-007-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Morning.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 7 24-007-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Good morning, Ms. Ossowski. Nice to see you again. My name is Alexandra Heine. I'm Commission Counsel, and I'll be doing your examination today. And at the end, my colleague, Gord Cameron, will have a few questions for you. So we're just going to start by pulling up your witness statement, which, Mr. Clerk, is WTS00000046. Thank you. So you recall that you participated in an interview with Commission Counsel in anticipation of your appearance here today on August 24th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 7 24-007-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And three of your colleagues, Christine Derosiers, Scott Harris and Ted Gallivan, who are not here today, were also interviewed; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 8 24-008-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so I would ask you to confirm that you've reviewed the summary of that interview, and if you have no changes to make, confirm that insofar as it contains your information, it is accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief and you adopt it, and insofar as it contains information from your colleagues, you believe that information to have been reviewed and accepted as accurate by your colleagues?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 8 24-008-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. So, Mr. Clerk, if we could also pull up DOJ-IR0000006? So, Mr. Ossowski, your department prepared and filed with the Commission this institutional report. Have you reviewed this document?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 8 24-008-17

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And is it accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 8 24-008-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Can you confirm that CBSA has filed this institutional report as part of its evidence before the Commission?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 8 24-008-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. So at the time of the Freedom Convoy events, you were the President of the CBSA; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And the CBSA is the Canada Border Services Agency?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So you left that role in June of 2022 I understand?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. You're retired now. And CBSA manages 117 land border crossings, 22 of which are commercial ports of entry; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And amongst other things, CBSA is responsible for administering and enforcing legislation that governs the admissibility of people and goods in and out of Canada ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. It also identifies detaining and removing people who are inadmissible to Canada?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And ensure compliance with Canadian laws in the border-related context?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 9 24-009-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And it also protects food and safety, plant and animal health, and Canada's resource base; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 10 24-010-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And Border Services officers, which are sometimes called BSOs, carry out some of those responsibilities; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 10 24-010-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And BSOs have regulatory authorities under the Quarantine Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Customs Act; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 10 24-010-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And I understand that BSOs don't have authorities beyond sort of the confines of ports of entry or CBSA property; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 10 24-010-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So they wouldn't have the power or authority to conduct an arrest, for example, outside of the port of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 10 24-010-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

But otherwise ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And so accordingly, the CBSA doesn't typically intervene in activities that occurs outside of its port of entry and its property; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So in the case of the convoy, the CBSA did not intervene directly in the protest and blockades because they happened near the ports of entry and not on the ports of entry's property; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So on that note, I'll take you through the convoy, and the way I'm going to structure this is I'm going to start by asking you questions about CBSA's response to the convoy and specific blockades, and then I'm going to ask you more specifically later in the examination about your roles and responsibilities during the convoy. Thank you. So we'll start with CBSA's response to the convoy. I understand that on January 25th -- sorry, January 15th, there were certain Order in Council provisions that had previously allowed foreign national truckers to enter Canada unvaccinated that expired; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And on the same day, Canadian unvaccinated commercial truckers entering Canada became subject to testing and quarantine requirements for which they had previously been exempt?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 11 24-011-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So this caused the sporadic protest activities and ultimately the movement that we know as the Freedom Convoy; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And CBSA had intelligence, mostly open source intelligence, that there were going to be some blockades near ports of entry sometime in late January; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And that slow roll did not become a blockade; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. That came later?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And in response to sort of this intelligence, CBSA put into place a contingency plan. Did you have any involvement in that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. But you knew about it?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 12 24-012-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that was on January 28th, I believe; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Amongst other things, I don't think we need to pull it up, I'll just note for the record that it's PB.NSC.CAN.9523, but it identified the safety and security of CBSA employees as its top priority. Is that consistent with your recollection?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And it also provided regions and headquarters with high-level contingency awareness and guidance on CBSA’s operational posture?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And it also set out a process whereby BOC, which is the Border Operations Centre, would provide situational reports twice a day. Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And my colleague, Gord Cameron, is going to touch on that, so he’ll pick it up later, but I understand that CBSA, in addition to the contingency plan, also implemented different port hardening measures?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Can you describe what those measures were?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 13 24-013-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Anything else?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 14 24-014-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And cameras, you mean CCTV, ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 14 24-014-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- like surveillance footage? Okay. And I understand that BSOs were also instructed, and that’s, again, border services officers, BSOs, were instructed to refer foreign nationals entering Canada for the purpose of participating in protests to secondary for confirmation of their eligibility to enter Canada? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 14 24-014-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Enhanced Vigilance Exam. And can you explain what sending somebody to secondary means?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 14 24-014-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So if a BSO suspected that somebody wanted to come into Canada to participate in the protest, they would send them to secondary?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And BSOs were also instructed to closely examine those travellers to ensure -- and travellers generally, to ensure the requirements issued by the Public Health Agency of Canada under the Quarantine Act were met by the individuals entering Canada? Is that also right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So that would involve questions about sort of, you know, their vaccination status, testing for covid? Things like that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So I’ll take you to January 29th, which is when the Coutts blockade started. So that was sort of the first major blockade? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-17

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And understanding that there was sporadic protest activities, so specifically slow roll convoys at other ports of entry in late January/early February, I understand that the next major blockade happened at the Bluewater Bridge, which is in Sarnia in Ontario, on February 6th. Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that blockade dispersed on February 8th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 15 24-015-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And then the next major blockade happened in Windsor on February 7th? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 16 24-016-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that’s when CBSA issued its first border alert?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 16 24-016-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Which advised people that the Ambassador Bridge Port of Entry was experiencing delays? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 16 24-016-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And specifically experiencing service disruptions?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 16 24-016-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So could you explain, first, what’s a border alert and what is, second, what is a service disruption, as opposed to a service suspension and a closure of a port of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 16 24-016-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And a port of entry closure, I understand, doesn’t happen very often? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 17 24-017-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And in what circumstances would that happen?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 17 24-017-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 17 24-017-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And we’ll get to that. But a service suspension, what does that look like on the ground?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 17 24-017-17

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. It’s sort of a skeleton crew that’s sort of at the port of entry just ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 17 24-017-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And maybe let’s pull up the Institutional Report. And that’s DOJ.IR.00000006. And Mr. Clerk, if we could go to page 32, please? All right. So this is a chart that sets out the service disruptions and suspensions that occurred sort of at the major ports of entry during the convoy? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And we see that there was a service disruption, as I mentioned earlier, issued on February 7th for Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And the next service disruption was issued on February -- sorry, service suspension was issued on February 12th? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And there was also a service disruption at Coutts on February 10th as well? Sorry, -- -

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- Emerson. Thank you. And on February 12th, if we just scroll down a bit, there was also a service disruption issued for the Pacific Highway Port of Entry, which is in B.C.? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So there’s a total of three disruptions and one suspension at those ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Were any other service disruptions or suspensions issued for any other ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 18 24-018-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Can you walk us through, generally, in terms of border wait times and the like? What were the impacts on these main blockades? The impacts of the blockades on these main ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 19 24-019-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And so let’s go to Coutts in terms of specifics. So as you mentioned, there’s some commercial ports of entry neighbouring Coutts in Saskatchewan and B.C., but I understand that those are eight -- around eight hours away from Coutts? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 19 24-019-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 20 24-020-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And those are North Portal in Saskatchewan, or Regway, and Roosville in B.C. or Kingsgate? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 20 24-020-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. I think you can just take my word for it.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 20 24-020-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so the CBSA, I understand, in response to the convoy, and because those alternative commercial ports of entry were so far away, they identified Del Bonita and Carway, which are two ports of entry that are closer to Coutts, much closer, Del Bonita is about 50 minutes away and Carway is about an hour and a half away, as potential alternative ports of entry. But as you noted, they were not outfitted to necessarily process commercial traffic? Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 20 24-020-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And they don’t have infrastructure either, like Canada Food Inspection Agency set up there?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And no USDA veterinary services for livestock.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And so, I understand that in response to these obstacles, Brad Wozny, who is your colleague -- was your colleague, and he’s the Regional Director of the Prairie Region, which captures both Manitoba and Alberta, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Regional Director General, thank you. And so he worked with the RCMP, which was the local police of jurisdiction in Coutts, the US Custom Border Protection Services, and CFIA, so that’s the Canada Food Inspection Agency, and the US Department of Agriculture, to facilitate the movement of commercial traffic through those alternative ports of entry.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So that’s specifically Del Bonita and Carway. And as he explained in his witness summary, which for the record it’s WTS000000044, they arrange for traffic moving southbound, so that’s going from Canada into the US, to effectively move across to Sweet Grass, Montana, which is located South of Coutts, and access a USDA Inspection Services there, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 21 24-021-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so then they would be able to, sort of, divert the traffic in that manner. And then the northbound vehicles, so those going from the US into Canada, would drive up to Sweet Grass, and they were inspected by CFIA, and their loads were sealed, and then they would move across to Del Bonita and enter Canada in that way.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 22 24-022-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so I understand that there were impacts to the Coutts port of entry all the way until February, around February 13th, where there was some enforcement action by the RCMP, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 22 24-022-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And can you explain sort of what that enforcement action entailed?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 22 24-022-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And there were guns and ammunitions that were seized?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 22 24-022-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And the rest of the protesters that were remaining agreed to leave sometime midday, or in the afternoon of February 14th, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 22 24-022-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And if we can pull up, Mr. Clerk, PBCAN1385. (SHORT PAUSE)

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So, Mr. Ossowski, this is an email that you sent to Minister Mendicino, who’s the Minister of Public Safety, on February 15th, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And you advised him that protestors were leaving Coutts as of 3:00 p.m. on February 14th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that around 8:30 p.m., the CBSA was advised that the RCMP had removed the conveyances blocking the lanes and had been able to secure the area, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And you also advised Minister Mendicino that the CBSA was in a position to open the Coutts POE on the next day.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Sorry; on that day, on February 15th.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay, so we’ll move on to Ambassador Bridge. So Ambassador Bridge, the blockades start on February 7, and a service disruption was issued on that day. And then if we can pull up the Institutional Report again, Mr. Clerk, so DOJIR00000006. And if we could go to page 38, please? So this is a chart that was provided to us by the CBSA that shows the commercial conveyances volume from January 15th to February 25th at the Ambassador Bridge, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 23 24-023-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Can you walk us through the chart, sort of from February 8th to February 13th, and just explain to us what those numbers mean?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 24 24-024-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And then if we go to February 13th, for example, we see that there’s zero commercial conveyances that passed on that day?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 24 24-024-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so, Mr. Clerk, if we could just scroll down. So traffic -- yes, keep going. Thank you. So traffic from the Ambassador Bridge was diverted to Blue Water Bridge, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 24 24-024-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Which is approximately two hours away from the Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 24 24-024-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And, also, traffic was diverted to Queenston?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 25 24-025-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Which is further; I believe it’s four hours away, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 25 24-025-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And it was also diverted to the Peace Bridge, which is about four hours and 30 minutes away, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 25 24-025-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so if we look at this chart again, we see that from February 7th to February 13th, which were the days that the blockade was impacting on the Ambassador Bridge, we see that Blue Water Bridge has sort of absorbed the traffic that would’ve normally gone through Ambassador Bridge; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 25 24-025-14

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And the other part would have presumably gone through Peace Bridge which, if we scroll down, we see that Peace Bridge also has an elevated amount of commercial conveyances on those days.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 25 24-025-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And there was also some traffic that was absorbed by Queenston.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 26 24-026-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So was CBSA tracking what happened to those commercial vehicles?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 26 24-026-19

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

They weren’t -- no? Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 26 24-026-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So, it’s possible that those vehicles went home; it’s also possible that they entered in a different manner?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 26 24-026-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. Thank you. So is it fair to say that most of the commercial vehicle traffic was successfully diverted to neighbouring ports of entry, but not all of it?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And what about at other ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So, it’s fair to say that southern Ontario, the commercial traffic was diverted slightly less successfully than some of the other ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

But the other ports of entries were able to successfully divert commercial traffic, largely.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 27 24-027-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. And so in Emerson I understand that there were five days where traffic was largely not getting through, and that was from February 12th to the 15th, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 28 24-028-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Sorry; I guess that’s four days. Yes. And traffic was redirected to two neighbouring ports of entry, which were Tolstoi and Gretna, is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 28 24-028-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And your colleague, Brad Wozny -- Emerson falls also within his region -- explained that although those two ports of entry, so Tolstoi and Gretna, were not equipped to process large volumes of commercial traffic, his knowledge was that all vehicles carrying commercial goods were diverted -- that were diverted made it across the border; is that consistent with your recollection?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 28 24-028-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 28 24-028-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 28 24-028-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. But Brad Wozny, Regional Director -- Regional General Director Wozny was able to work with the US authorities and with the Canadian authorities to outfit those neighbouring ports of entry so they would be able to process some of those commercial vehicles.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 29 24-029-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So a resource diversion ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 29 24-029-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- basically? Right. And lastly, the other main port of entry where a blockade happened was Pacific Highway. We touched on that briefly, but I understand -- and this is from your colleague, Nina Patel, who's the Regional General Director of the Pacific Division, or the Pacific Region.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 29 24-029-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And in her interview summary, which we don't need to pull, but for the record it's WTS00000045, traffic was rerouted from Pacific Highway on February 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 29 24-029-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And it was -- they were redirected to the neighbouring ports of entry of Aldergrove, which is about 20 kilometres away from Pacific Highway?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 29 24-029-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And Huntington, which is about 40 kilometres away?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And I understand that Aldergrove and Huntington are commercial ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

I think your colleague, Nina Patel, said that they were. They just didn't have the same commercial vehicle capacity as ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- Pacific Highway.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Exactly.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Yeah, that's exactly right. So in the email that we showed you earlier, which we don't need to pull up again, but it was the email where you advised Minister Mendocino in regards to the Coutts port of entry; do you recall that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-17

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And you also advised him that at 11:05 p.m. local time on February 14th, the RCMP had successfully cleared and opened north and southbound roads at the Pacific Highway for the resumption of traffic; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 30 24-030-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so the traffic flow had resumed and there were very few protesters remaining on site, which is what you advised him of?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 31 24-031-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Sorry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 31 24-031-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. And so you've mentioned that when traffic is diverted, there's an increase in border wait times, truckers have to drive longer to get to their destinations. In the case of Ambassador Bridge -- thank you -- in the case of Ambassador Bridge, there were some impacts on supply chains?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 31 24-031-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And there was a significant, or a specific impact on the automobile industry; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 31 24-031-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And the Ambassador Bridge blockade was cleared up on February 13th as a result of enforcement action; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 31 24-031-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. You reopened on February 14th, but because the protesters had cleared on February 13th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 32 24-032-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. Overall, would you say that the CBSA responded well to these blockades?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 32 24-032-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And CBSA took -- you'd say took active steps to mitigate the impacts?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 32 24-032-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And it staffed alternative ports of entry as well?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 32 24-032-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 33 24-033-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And as we talked about earlier, CBSA was able to successfully divert much of the commercial traffic, not all of it, especially at Ambassador Bridge, but a lot of it, due to the steps that it took?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 33 24-033-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

I'm going to now turn to your role specifically during the convoy. So as President of the CBSA, you were first in command; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 33 24-033-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And you reported to Cabinet?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 33 24-033-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that's because CBSA falls within the general umbrella of Public Safety; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 33 24-033-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

To the Minister, you mean Minister Mendocino?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And Deputy heads, you mean of the agencies that fall within Public Safety's mandate?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. How did you report to him? So was it oral briefings, written briefings?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And how often?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-14

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

A few times a day?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And your second in command was your Executive Vice-President who at the time was Ted Gallivan?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So I understand that you attended meetings throughout with officials and at the political level?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

You attended Deputy Minister Committee on Operational Coordination meetings and ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 34 24-034-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- we refer to ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- the DMOCCs. Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And sometimes, I understand, you've sent Mr. Gallivan as your delegate to those meetings or ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So you didn't attend all of those?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And you also attended meetings of the Cabinet Committee on Safety, Security and Emergencies; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And we refer to that as the SSE.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so there were three meetings, the 3rd, the 6th and the 8th. Did you attend all of those meetings?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-19

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

I think you attended the 3rd and the 6th and Mr. Gallivan attended the 8th. Does that refresh your memory?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And you also attended meetings of the Incident Response Group?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 35 24-035-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And those occurred on the 10th, 12th and 13th, and then every day from the 15th to the 23rd, I understand?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 36 24-036-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Do you recall whether you attended all of those meetings or only some?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 36 24-036-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And if you weren't at one of those meetings, you would have sent your delegate, I assume?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 36 24-036-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And you also attended some of the FPTCPPC meetings, which is the Federal Provincial Territorial Crime Prevention and Policing Committee; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 36 24-036-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So I'm actually going to take you to a read out of that committees -- one of the meetings of that committee, which happened on February 7th. So that's SAS0000000012, Mr. Clerk, please? And if we go down to page 2? So we see that you gave an update here, "...major commercial vehicle traffic [in Alberta]. One lane open [...]. Still protesters there, but allowing through." Presumably allowing some traffic through. And, "Normally double. Other area is ambassador bridge, blocking in Windsor/Detroit area, major port of entry. Blocked. Is a police of jurisdiction issue, working with POJ to share intel but comes down to enforcement. Ready to work with PT partners to share what we know. Will continue to work with them." Do you recall this?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 36 24-036-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Is this the type of update that you would have typically provided at these meetings?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 37 24-037-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And if we go down to page 3, keep going, keep going -- it might be a bit lower. Keep going. Keep going. There we go. Sorry, page 4. So you say, "Issue is large trucks, tow trucks and cannot compel drivers. Emergencies Acts could be used to compel." So we've heard a lot of evidence throughout this inquiry that there was an issue procuring tow trucks, and that one of the powers that the Emergencies Act provided was for people -- or the police would be able to compel those tow truck drivers to assist. So this is on February 7th. Were you -- does this mean that you were contemplating the use of the Emergencies Act as early as February 7th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 37 24-037-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And your understanding with that provincial emergency powers could be used to compel tow trucks?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 38 24-038-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And when you say "Alberta might have had that power", what do you mean by that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 38 24-038-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Is that the Critical Infrastructure ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 38 24-038-19

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Their provincial emergency?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 38 24-038-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And your understanding was that other provinces may or may not have had?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 38 24-038-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Was there ever any follow up on that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 39 24-039-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 39 24-039-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 39 24-039-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. Well, we can discuss it now. So I understand that effectively, CBSA's role could have been not the procurement of tow trucks, but facilitating immigration for those tow trucks to come assist; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 39 24-039-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And did you provide that assistance for any of the ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 39 24-039-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And how -- do you recall if tow trucks actually came over the bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 40 24-040-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Any other ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 40 24-040-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

All right. So Mr. Clerk, if we could pull up SSM.NSC.CAN00000214? While Mr. Clerk is pulling that up, Mr. Ossowski, this is the meeting minutes from the February 12th IRG meeting, which you attended?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 40 24-040-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And Mr. Clerk, it's on page 6, please. And keep going down. Sorry, page 7. So we see here at the bottom that it says: "The prime minister asked for an update on other POEs and what is being done to prevent further disruptions. The minister of public safety and president of CBSA --- " --- that was you --- "--- confirmed that there is real-time reporting in all critical POEs and ongoing engagement with local law enforcement. If an authority or asset gap is identified, departments remain ready to respond. Currently, it remains only three blocked POEs. There was an attempt to block the Pacific Highway, but police successfully thwarted this attempt." So I have a couple of questions about this. What was meant by "if an authority or asset gap is identified, departments remain ready to respond"?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 40 24-040-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And when you say "Currently, it remains only the three blocked POEs" -- this is on February 12th, so which ports of entry are you referring to here?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 41 24-041-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And presumably Coutts?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 41 24-041-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 41 24-041-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So Emerson, Ambassador Bridge, Coutts.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 41 24-041-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right, thank you. And then if we can go to SSM.CAN.00000095? While that’s being brought up, Mr. Ossowski, this is the February 13th IRG meeting minutes.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 41 24-041-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Mr. Clerk, we'll just go down to page 5. So the prime minister asked the minister of public safety to outline additional actions that could be taken by federal authorities to deal with and prevent further blockades. Do you recall this?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 42 24-042-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And the minister of public safety explained that great progress had been made in clearing and securing the Ambassador Bridge, but that there was no definitive timeline for reopening?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 42 24-042-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And but as we established earlier, the Ambassador Bridge was reopened the next day?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 42 24-042-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And he also noted that enforcement actions were occurring in Coutts and Emerson. Do you recall this?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 42 24-042-19

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And lastly, that -- and we'll skip the part about Ottawa -- at the Blue Water Bridge crossing, the CBSA had also doubled its capacity for commercial vehicles, allowing carriers additional corridors for cross- border trade; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 42 24-042-23

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And that was in response to the Ambassador Bridge blockade?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So that was the update that Minister Mendicino provided. Did you also contribute anything to this meeting?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-04

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And when Minister Mendicino gives an update like this, is the information that he's conveying information that you have briefed him up on ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- in the context of your daily touching base?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And what kind of reports were those?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-21

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And the Border Operations Centre Situational reports that we talked about earlier, those as well?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 43 24-043-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So those were sent to both Minister Mendicino's office and public safety?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 44 24-044-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. I'd like to now ask you questions about the invocation of the Emergencies Act, and sorry, the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act. So earlier, we talked about how you and some of the other deputy ministers discussed alternative authorities that could be used; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 44 24-044-06

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And in one of your deputy minister briefing talking point packages, which I understand are binders prepared for you either for DMOCCs or IRGs; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 44 24-044-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

We don’t need to pull it up, but the reference for the record is SSM.NSC.CAN321. And so that briefing package said that the CBSA considered various avenues of deterrence so the NEXUS trusted trader status of a commercial driver, cancellation of FAST applications, and other options. This is not the first time that those options had been raised; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 44 24-044-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

It was not the first time or ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 44 24-044-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right, because this was February 13th, and if we go to February 10th, which actually, we will pull this one up. So this is an email from Mike Jones, who is Minister Mendicino's chief of staff; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 45 24-045-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

To Mike Maka from Transport, Samantha Khalil from PMO, and Zita, who is Bill Blair's chief of staff; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 45 24-045-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And she says: "I've received these enforcement options from CBSA which I've asked for more context around. I understand that it is part of a broader effort to provide options to the clerk. I'm tracking down from my side and Z is going to check in with the NSIA." So the clerk here would be the clerk of the Privy Council; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 45 24-045-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And then he goes on to list some of the options that we just talked about, so the Trusted Trader Program, Trusted Traveller Program, NEXUS, and others. Do you know whatever happened to those deterrent options that you put on the table?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 45 24-045-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. Right. So the EMRs designated the ports of entry and the trade corridors as critical infrastructure?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 46 24-046-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And we won't pull it up, pursuant to section 6, made those exclusion zones. Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 46 24-046-20

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So ultimately none of these options ever went anywhere?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 46 24-046-24

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 46 24-046-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. Because of the Emergencies Act. I mean prior to the Emergencies Act.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And did you play a role in the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Can you elaborate on that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And when you say "we identified" you mean you reported it to Cabinet?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. But you were not asked for your advice on invoking the Emergencies Act ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- or directly for your input?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 47 24-047-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

So you never advised any of the Cabinet members whether they should or should not invoke the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 48 24-048-03

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so you just identified this legislative gap to Cabinet. And you've explained that the gap was that there was no authority to turn somebody away in relation to wanting to participate in a lawful protest; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 48 24-048-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And the CBSA was concerned with this legislative gap in allowing foreign nationals to come into the country to participate in a peaceful protest?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 48 24-048-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And was it your understanding that many U.S. or foreign nationals were coming into the country to participate in the protest?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 48 24-048-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So they would go to secondary and be turned away because they didn't meet the requirements of the Quarantine Act, for example.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 49 24-049-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. Did the CBSA consider whether they had the authority to turn away foreign nationals on the basis that they wanted to participate in an unlawful protest?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 49 24-049-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. But the Immigration Refugee Protection Act would -- it does set out admissibility/inadmissibility ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 49 24-049-22

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- criteria; right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 49 24-049-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And if somebody went to the border and there was reasonable grounds or they were suspected to go -- wanted to be admitted to Canada to engage in unlawful activity, would that be sufficient basis to turn them away?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 49 24-049-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 50 24-050-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So the issue -- the legislative gap was specific to turning foreign nationals away who wanted to participate in a lawful, peaceful protest?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 50 24-050-12

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And -- so I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the Immigration Refugee Protection Act would have already given the CBSA that power at the point in which the protests were deemed to have been unlawful.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 50 24-050-18

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

What do you mean by that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 50 24-050-25

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. But if there were reasonable grounds or there was a suspicion that that was there, and destination, then that would be a sufficient basis to turn them away?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 51 24-051-02

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. And I mean, border services officers are trained to assess whether somebody is telling the truth or not?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 51 24-051-09

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So you talked briefly about how a lot of foreign nationals were turned away because they didn't meet the requirements under the Quarantine Act if they weren't vaccinated, for example, and my counsel -- my co-counsel will get into this further, so I'll leave that to him. But I guess my question is whether that was sufficient to attenuate CBSA's concerns that foreign nationals were entering to participate in the protest, the idea that they would most likely be turned away pursuant to the Quarantine Act requirements?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 51 24-051-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. Okay, thank you. So I only have about five minutes left before I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Cameron, so I just want to pull up one last document. And that's, Mr. Clerk, COM00000670. So this is the government's section 58 explanation. Are you familiar with this document?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 51 24-051-28

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Did you have any role in drafting it?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 52 24-052-08

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So inputs, but you didn't hold the pen?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 52 24-052-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right. So if we go to page 7. Yeah, right there. So just a little bit up, just where it says, "In addition". So it says -- it describes two events where it's -- that occurred, one at the Pacific Highway port of entry, and one in Fort Erie, and it says that at those two locations: "...protesters had breached the confines of the CBSA plaza resulting in CBSA officers..."

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 52 24-052-16

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner: "...locking down the office to prevent additional protesters from gaining entry." So the event at Fort Erie happened on the 12th; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 52 24-052-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And according to a situational report, it was 120 vehicles that converged on -- in the area of the Peace Bridge; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 53 24-053-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And protesters accessed the CBSA plaza, which I understand to mean sort of the parking lot - --

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 53 24-053-11

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- on foot. And then it says that police and the CBSA were able to direct the protesters to leave after 20 minutes. Is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 53 24-053-15

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Right, and we have evidence from Dwayne McDonald who’s the Commander for the “E” Division of the RCMP and he describes the event, basically, as a -- exactly as you’ve just put it, so that there was sort of a painted vehicle that crossed a threshold but it wasn’t a breach, per se.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 53 24-053-27

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And he also observed that the media reports on that specific event were not accurate; would you agree with that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 54 24-054-05

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. Do you have any doubt to -- any reason to doubt his evidence?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 54 24-054-10

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And just for the record, I’ll note that that’s WTS00000069 at page 20, which is the RCMP Panel Witness Summary, and Dwayne McDonald’s evidence is in there. So my last question for you before I turn it over to my colleague is that the Section 58 explanation also talks broadly about the economic impacts of the border blockades, and I understand that CBSA itself did not conduct any analysis on the economic impacts; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 54 24-054-13

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. Did you say “value- for-duty”?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 54 24-054-26

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And who did you provide that data to?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-01

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

And so they would have, then, undertaken the economic analysis ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-07

Alexandra Heine, Counsel (POEC)

--- based on your data you send them? Okay. Okay, thank you so much, Mr. Ossowski. Those are all of my questions. I’m going to pass it over to Mr. Cameron now.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-10

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Good morning, sir. My name’s Gordon Cameron. I have just a few questions to finish off your examination by Commission counsel this morning. Let me begin, just so that I don’t get it wrong for the whole examination that I did, do you prefer Ossowski or Ossowski?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-16

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Ossowski, thank you. And I’ll apologize if I speak in the present tense because I acknowledge you’ve since retired. So if I talk to you as if you’re still in charge of CBSA, just ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-22

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Yeah, just make the time change on my behalf. But certainly, when you were at CBSA, CBSA had, and you would have had overall responsibility as its president or deputy minister, the Intelligence and Enforcement Branch?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 55 24-055-27

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And am I correct -- I’m just going by website information, so if I get it wrong, please correct me -- that Ted Gallivan, as executive vice president, would have had that under his purview as well?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 56 24-056-05

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. And tell me briefly why CBSA has an Intelligence and Enforcement Branch.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 56 24-056-12

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And it’s a fairly substantial department within CBSA?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-01

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Yes.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-04

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Yeah. And they produce what we’ve learned to call “intelligence products” for use by CBSA management and personnel?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-06

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Fair enough. So they would take in information and distill from it the information that’s most likely relevant to ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-15

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

--- CBSA’s mandate and then distribute within the organization?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-19

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. And it seems, just by instinct, that the two concerns here will be using that intelligence and those assessments to protect the security of Canada in terms of people who might be coming into the country and to protect your personnel who have to deal with these situations on the frontline; is that ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 57 24-057-22

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. Now, you produced for the Commission, helpfully, a series of these situational reports and intelligence assessments, if I can use that term, and I’d like to call up the first of these, if I could, Mr. Clerk, SSM.NSC.CAN000000068. I say the “first”; it isn’t the first sequentially, it’s just the first I’m going to refer to. And we can see that is a Situation Report for February 14th at 10:30 in the morning. Is this a type that you’re familiar with, Mr. Ossowski?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 58 24-058-01

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And if the clerk can just scroll down the page so that people looking at the screen can see the -- just the type of content in this sort of report. We see a description of each -- of several ports of entry. And keep going, Mr. Clerk. I’m going to ask you ultimately to get through to page 8 but just scrolling through, people can see the type of statistical and observational analysis that this type of report would give to your personnel for the objectives we just described. And when we get through to page 8, there’s a table and then a heading, “Intelligence and Law Enforcement” -- sorry, “Intelligence and Enforcement”, and then underneath that, a heading, “Intelligence Landscape”. And I’m going to make the point of observing the parenthetical comment, “(Updates in red)”, and then the first heading there is “BLUF”. Can you tell us what that acronym is for? Do you remember?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 58 24-058-11

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Okay. Bottom Line Up Front, so it’s a compact presentation at the top of the assessment that gives the high-level view?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 58 24-058-28

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

To the bottom line.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 59 24-059-07

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Right. And the words there: "As of February 14th, 2022, at 08:30 ET, the overall threat to CBSA officers and infrastructure is low." And this is February 14th, the convoy and the protests have been going on for more than a couple of weeks. I just wonder if you can confirm for me, because it’s certainly the impression that Commission counsel got, that that had been the BLUF in these reports throughout February, that is exactly as it appears there. Is that your recollection too?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 59 24-059-09

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. Now ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 59 24-059-24

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. That’s actually a very helpful addition for the point I’d like to see if we can learn from the next document. And so, Mr. Clerk, if you could pull up, same prefix, but 1519? SSM.NSC.CAN.00001519. And so here we have the Situational Report. And you’ll recall that the last one was for 10:30 in the morning. We are now at 4:00 p.m. in the afternoon; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 60 24-060-03

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And was it typical for these Situational Reports, at least during -- you’ll note that it’s a Situational Report specific to the COVID-19 mandate protest. Was it typical -- and its our impression from your documents that these would be produced twice a day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 60 24-060-12

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And again, Mr. Clerk, if you can just scroll through and take us down to page 8? Again, the same type of situational analysis of the various crossings with tables, and statistics, and maps, and what not. Then we get, again, our BLUF, Bottom Line Up Front. And we have the same statement as we saw in the last one, and that as you confirmed, had been in all of the BLUF, Bottom Line encapsulations of intelligence and enforcement at this time, February 14th, 2022, though now later in the day. The overall threat to CBSA officers and infrastructure is low, but there’s now an addition.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 60 24-060-19

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And the addition to this BLUF is: “There has been a significant operational impact that may result in a threat to Canada’s economic security and prosperity.” Now, you know why you’re here today, and we’ve all been watching the progress of events in the first couple of months of February, so you’ll appreciate the significance of the date, February 14th; right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 61 24-061-04

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

As the date that the Government invoked the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 61 24-061-15

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And do you recognize that language, “There has been a significant operational impact that may result in a threat to Canada’s economic security and prosperity” as language that is lifted from the section 58 justification that Canada used for the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 61 24-061-18

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

I’m not going to say it’s the same language, so let me put it this way. It’s the concept that you will have been familiar with, as having been part of the section 58 ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 61 24-061-26

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

--- explanation; correct? Thank you. And so I’m going to circle around to this later, but can you tell me, do you have any knowledge as to why your BLUF report, which throughout all of the protests had been describing the risk to your front-line personnel and the guidance for your management, why it changed from a description of the threat being low to your officers and infrastructure to the addition of this point about “operational impact may result in a threat to Canada’s economic security and prosperity”?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 62 24-062-03

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Fair enough. And thank you for that. Let’s look at another sequence of similar threat assessment or situational reports. Mr. Clerk, could you call up SSM.NSC.CAN000000064? Now just have a look at that Mr. Ossowski, and perhaps as the Clerk scrolls down, you’ll be able to just tell us roughly speaking, what -- this is a very similar looking report, although different in some respects. Can you describe what type of report this is?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 62 24-062-24

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And again, scrolling down just so Mr. Ossowski can see the report as it progresses, but stopping there, please, Mr. Clerk. Again, we have a BLUF, Bottom Line Up Front, description under the same type of heading, “Intelligence Landscape”. And again, for this report, it says that at 8:30 in the morning, on February 14th, and I’ll quote: “…the overall threat to CBSA officers and infrastructure remains low.” And do you see that, Mr. Ossowski?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 63 24-063-10

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And can you agree with me again, so that we don’t have to go through them all, and perhaps subject to check if you do want to, that that had been the report given in all of these reports throughout February?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 63 24-063-21

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And Mr. Clerk, if you could next call up SSM.CAN.00006200? And I think we’ll see that, as you described it earlier, a wide distribution email with similar situational information. And if you could just scroll through it, Mr. Clerk? We’re looking for page 4. Bottom of page 4. Again, tables and statistics about activity at the various border points. And then we get the “Intelligence Landscape” “BLUF”. And I’m sorry, you know what I forgot to do? Was to get the date and time of this. Mr. Clerk, could you go up to the top please? Thanks. So we are now the next day. So this is February 15th. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I just wanted to make sure we understood this. So this is the next day’s report of the same type. And when we look at the “Intelligence Landscape” Bottom Line Up Front, we see the same word about -- sorry, same words about the threat being low, but now there’s some more words: “…but caution should be exercised in light of recent reporting surrounding IMVE groups.” And do you know why that appeared on February 15th, the day after the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 63 24-063-26

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And do you see that before the sentence we were just talking about, IMVE groups, we have a repeat of the observation that the protests at POEs have significant operational impact that may result in a threat to Canada’s economic security and prosperity. That one that we saw last time in the other report; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 65 24-065-06

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Now your explanation, as I understood it earlier, for the appearance at the end of the day on February 14th in 1 type of report and then in the next day on February 15th in the other type of report for the appearance of these references, in the intelligence landscape description of the threat to CBSA officers and infrastructure, this sudden appearance of references to a threat to Canada's economic security and prosperity as being not motivated, in your view, by an effort on the part of the drafters of these reports to repeat the government explanation for invoking the Emergencies Act, you're confident of that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 65 24-065-14

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And I think you'll agree that a threat assessment is meant to be a guide to action and policy, not to serve as a vehicle to rationalize it; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 65 24-065-26

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And, in fact, if your personnel get the idea that the content of these threat assessments that they are getting are driven by an attempt to repeat government talking points, it's going to dilute the utility of those assessments to your personnel and to their ability to protect Canadians?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 66 24-066-02

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Okay. So it's important that the explanation you gave, that is that it was more or less a coincidence that this language appeared immediately after the invocation of the Emergencies Act, that it was just a coincidence and not an attempt to repeat the government's talking points for the invocation of the Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 66 24-066-09

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you. Another point that chronologically, because we're at the end of the process here, chronologically at the invocation of the Act, you mentioned that the only -- you mentioned in answer to questions by my colleague, Ms. Heine, that the only input that CBSA gave to Cabinet when it was considering how provisions in the Emergencies Act could assist CBSA's mandate was to observe that you didn't currently have the authority to prohibit entry on the grounds that people were heading to one of these protests and that that would be useful to you in terms of the objectives that Cabinet appeared to be trying to achieve. Do you remember that evidence?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 66 24-066-17

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And if we can call up, Mr. Clerk, SSM.NSC.CAN.00000405? This is IRG minutes for February 20th. Do you recall participating in IRG meetings, Mr. Ossowski?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 67 24-067-02

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And, Mr. Clerk, if we scroll down to page 6 at the bottom of the page -- so just slow down a little bit, Mr. Clerk, so we can get the context here. Can you go up just a bit? So this is the IRG reporting on progress and with respect to actions that have taken place consequential on the invocation of the Emergencies Act, and then we have some input from CBSA at the very bottom. And, Mr. Ossowski, did you provide that input to the IRG?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 67 24-067-06

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And did you participate in person or virtually in this meeting?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 67 24-067-16

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And for your virtual participation, was this you speaking, or had you submitted a report to this effect?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 67 24-067-19

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And you would have been briefed in advance, I suppose, for a -- even for the President of CBSA, an appearance at the IRG is a significant event. You'd have had your staff brief you on this input?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 67 24-067-24

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Sorry, can you just slow down a little bit and repeat that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-03

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Right. And had you made any other reports to the IRG about similar instances in which the Emergencies Act powers had been used by CBSA?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-11

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And I think it was the last time also?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-16

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Okay. And so as far as CBSA is aware, the authority in the Emergencies Act that empowered CBSA to deny entry to people was with respect to a couple who were turned away on February 19th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-19

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

And that's the totality of it?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-24

Gordon Cameron, Senior Counsel (POEC)

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. Those are my only questions.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 68 24-068-27

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Good morning, sir.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 69 24-069-04

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

For the record, Brendan Miller. We've corresponded before on other files, as you might recall. I'm Counsel for Freedom Corp., which is the representatives of the protesters that were in Ottawa in January and February. Nothing to do with the border, sir. So I just wanted to get out some of the information with respect to the information that you gather internationally and that is given to the CBSA, if you don't mind, so if you can turn your mind to that. So Canada, of course, is a part of what they call the Five Eyes. Can you just sort of give an explanation of that for the folks at home?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 69 24-069-06

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And in the Five Eyes group and everything, a lot of the information that is gathered by the Five Eyes is provided to the CBSA for security purposes; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 69 24-069-22

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And so -- and, of course, the Five Eyes, the United States, you get information from the agencies in the United States about any sort of threats that may exist both for Canada, but also for the United States, and that's essentially put into the CBSA's information bank and so that you have it with respect to people coming across the border; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 69 24-069-27

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And it's fair to say that throughout the protest and at least based on disclosure, the agencies in the United States such as the FBI, et cetera, they did not provide the CBSA or the Five Eyes any form of information with respect to any threat to Canada; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 70 24-070-08

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 70 24-070-16

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. But nothing to -- was brought to your attention as the President of the CBSA with respect to any sort of threat to Canada coming from the United States during the protest; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 70 24-070-18

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And so of course you never relayed such information to Cabinet or to any of the political executive because you weren't given any?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 70 24-070-23

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And just to be clear, and I think my friend has made this clear, at no time did you advise Cabinet or provide information to Cabinet that there existed a Section 2 CSIS Act threat under the CSIS Act; is that fair?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 70 24-070-28

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And so is it within -- and we keep hearing that. We haven't had CSIS testify yet. All of the law enforcement agencies that have testified to date have said that that purview was solely up to CSIS. Is that your understanding of how it works?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 71 24-071-07

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. So and if CSIS is the only agency providing that information and CSIS says there's no Section 2 Security Act threat, is it fair to say that Cabinet would have been never advised of any Section 2 CSIS Act threat?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 71 24-071-13

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

When you were present, when you were dealing with the IRG, is it fair to say that no law enforcement agency, no intelligence agency within Canada advised the government that there was a Section 2 CSIS Act threat?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 71 24-071-19

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right. And during your dealings with the political executive, essentially, they have been stating in public that law enforcement agencies advised them that the threshold for invoking the Act was met, all right? What law enforcement agency advised them of that, to your knowledge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 71 24-071-25

Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)

Right, and neither are we. Thank you.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-05

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Good morning, Mr. Ossowski. Am I pronouncing your name correctly?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-10

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. My name if Jennifer King. I’m legal counsel to the City of Windsor. The Ambassador Bridge proper and the structures housing the CBSA around the bridge are privately owned by the Canadian subsidiary of the Detroit International Bridge Company; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-13

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And the Canadian subsidiary is the Canadian Transit Company; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-19

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Does the Canadian Transit Company own the land around the bridge infrastructure and the structures housing the CBSA?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-22

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 72 24-072-27

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Are there any other international border crossings managed by the CBSA that are owned and operated by a private corporation?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-02

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. I take it, Mr. Ossowski, that you are familiar with Windsor and the location of the Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-10

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

The Ambassador Bridge sits at one end of a municipal roadway, Huron Church Road; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-14

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And that road about three kilometres or so from the provincial highway?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-17

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

So truck drivers have to contend, Mayor Dilkens testified, six or seven local intersections with traffic as they move along Huron Church Road to and from the bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-20

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Is this unique, in particular, with respect to points of entry geared towards commercial conveyances?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 73 24-073-25

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And the road is surrounded by residential areas on both sides, educational institutions, and businesses?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-04

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

The University of Windsor is right beside the bridge and the CBSA facilities; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-08

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And you’ll agree that Huron Church bisects the city, so serving as an assess point between the east and west sides of Windsor?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-11

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And are you aware that the route under the bridge along Huron Church is an important route connecting West Windsor to downtown?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-15

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. So the thousands of trucks that cross the border every day share Huron Church Road with local Windsor residents?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-20

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Mayor Dilkens of Windsor testified last week in response to a question from Commission counsel who asked whether or not there was any discussion about trying to prevent the blockade, and Mayor Dilkens testified that because of the distance between the Ambassador Bridge and the highway, and the number of businesses, homes, hotels, and schools that require direct access to Huron Church Road, he said that it would be, for all intents and purposes, practically impossible to guarantee with any certainty that you could provide a route for trucks without having huge disruption to the community. Would you agree with Mayor Dilkens?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 74 24-074-24

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. Well, if I can just ask -- I wanted to ask you few questions about that. If Mr. Clerk could please pull up SSM.NSC.CAN00000340_REL.0001. Mr. Ossowski, I’m not sure if we’ve discussed this document yet today. I’m not sure if I missed that. Have you been asked any questions about this document yet this morning?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 75 24-075-11

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. Can you tell us what this is?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 75 24-075-18

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. So these are the February 16th date. It would have been around February 16th and certainly after the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 75 24-075-23

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. If you could just go to the last bullet on the first page, please. And you’ll see here that the last bullet discusses -- or states that: "Since the reopening of the bridge, we have not seen any service disruptions or border wait time, which is good news. Law enforcement partners are maintaining a strong presence in the area with police erecting concrete barriers along the length of Huron Church between the Ambassador Bridge and EC Row." (As read). And so that was what you were referring to?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 75 24-075-27

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

All right. If you could please scroll to page 3, Mr. Clerk, and the heading “Temporary POE and Trade Corridor Hardening”. The second bullet, you’ll see that the CBSA: "…identified 22 high-risk POEs that, if impeded, would continue to exacerbate the fragile international trade chain." And the Ambassador Bridge was one of those 22 high-risk POEs?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 76 24-076-13

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Now, the CBSA collaborated with police agencies of jurisdiction and provincial and municipal officials to ensure the integrity of these essential transportation routes; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 76 24-076-23

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And in Windsor ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 76 24-076-28

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Just the port of entry.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-03

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

So in Windsor, the police of jurisdiction would be the Windsor Police?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-05

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And the municipal official obviously would be the City of Windsor?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-08

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Are you aware that this temporary hardening had a significant impact on the community around the bridge and Huron Church Road?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-11

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. I have a few questions about -- just to clarify the impact of border blockades on other border crossings. Mr. Clerk, you can take down that document. So the CBSA Ambassador Bridge Operations is also responsible for the Windsor Truck Ferry; right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-15

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Yes.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-21

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. Well, then, perhaps I won’t ask you any questions about it. I’ll note that the CBSA produced an Ambassador Bridge profile. I won’t bring in up if you’re not familiar with it but the profile, for the record, is at PB.NSC.CAN00009539_REL. And that profile, Mr. Ossowski, states that the CBSA Ambassador Bridge Operations is responsible for the Windsor Truck Ferry, and I wanted to ask you whether or not there was any impact on the truck ferry operations.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 77 24-077-23

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. You spoke this morning about the impact of the Ambassador Bridge blockade and the Blue Water Bridge and some of the other bridges. Did the slow rolls and blockades of other border crossings like Blue Water impact traffic at the Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 78 24-078-06

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

I understand this morning you stated that the Blue Water Bridge -- the blockade of the Blue Water Bridge started around -- was it the 6th of February?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 78 24-078-21

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 78 24-078-26

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And at that time, were there slow rolls also at the Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 78 24-078-28

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. But certainly, slow rolls and blockades of any of the bridges in Southern Ontario will impact the use of the neighbouring bridges?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 79 24-079-04

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. I have a few questions just to clarify the CBSA’s authorities at and near ports of entry.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 79 24-079-08

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

This morning, you testified that the CBSA has limited authority to arrest within the port of entry. You’re Institutional Report confirms that the CBSA does have arrest authorities when conducting their duties at a port of authority.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 79 24-079-12

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

CBSA officers, do they have the authority to arrest under the Criminal Code?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 79 24-079-27

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. So they don’t have the authority to enforce, for example, a breach of a court order under the Criminal Code?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 80 24-080-05

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

So if we could look at SSM.NSC.CAN0000340_Rel.0001? This is back to your briefing material. And if you could go to page 5, please? This seems to be an attachment to your speaking notes, Mr. Ossowski, entitled “Emergencies Act - CBSA Actions”. Are you -- do you recognize this document?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 80 24-080-11

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. If you can just go to page 6 in the second last bullet please, Mr. Clerk? And you’ll see here, it states: “CBSA officers are not designated to enforce the criminal arrest provisions of the Emergencies Act and cannot directly engage in enforcement operations at prohibited public assemblies.” Do you see that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 80 24-080-20

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And that’s your understanding?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 81 24-081-02

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And then the last sentence states that: “…CBSA officers are advised to immediately contact their Regional Intelligence Officer who may share information the appropriate law enforcement agency in accordance with disclosure requirements.” And I missed the first part of that sentence, but it’s in circumstances where an officer encounters an offence under the EA regulations?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 81 24-081-07

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. So if a prohibited public assembly happened even within the port of entry, you would still rely on the police of jurisdiction to enforce?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 81 24-081-18

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And certainly outside of the port of authority in Windsor, you relied on Windsor Police Services to address the blockade because that blockade happened at a municipal intersection; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 81 24-081-24

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

You embedded CBSA’s District Director in charge of Windsor, Mr. Joe McMahon, in command -- at the Command Centre that WPS set up near the Ambassador Bridge; right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 82 24-082-01

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Were you aware that the Command Centre was located in the City’s Emergency Operation Centre?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 82 24-082-06

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. Was it your understanding that there was some disagreement between the Province of Ontario and the Federal Government over which level of government had the jurisdiction and authority to respond to the blockade at the Ambassador Bridge?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 82 24-082-11

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. If we could bring up SSM.CAN00000374_Rel.0001? This is an email that Nathalie Drouin sent to you on February the 10th. Who is Nathalie Drouin?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 82 24-082-19

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. If you could scroll all the way to the end of the email chain, Mr. Clerk? And you’ll see here the email from Nathalie Drouin to yourself and some others.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 82 24-082-25

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And so she’s asking whether or not we can: “…declare the region of the Ambassador bridge a trade corridor and then get jurisdiction?” Do you see that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 83 24-083-02

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

So if you can scroll up, Mr. Clerk? We’ll see that, Mr. Ossowski, you sent this question to Michael Keenan of Transport Canada?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 83 24-083-09

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

And if you continue to scroll up, we’ll see his answer. Do you recognize this email?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 83 24-083-14

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Yes. And I won’t go through the entire response, but I will -- but this email references that the Ontario Minister of Transportation was continuing to suggest that the Federal Government had full authority to manage international crossings. And Mr. Keenan responds that: “…this purposefully confuses authorities between governments.” Do you recall that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 83 24-083-18

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And Mr. Keenan refers to the federal authorities under the Customs Act and the International Bridges and Tunnels Act, but concludes that these Acts don’t: “….directly bring any authorities to bear on the blockade…” Right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 83 24-083-28

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And do you agree with Michael Keenan’s email?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 84 24-084-09

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

All right. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Ossowski, you understand that Windsor and other municipalities were challenged in terms of their capacity to respond to these protests, in terms of the availability of local policing and other resources, such as in Windsor’s case, jersey barriers?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 84 24-084-12

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Would you agree that bolstering local capacity and resources is necessary to mitigate the risk of major impacts on the operation of the federal border crossings in the future?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 84 24-084-20

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Thank you. Would you agree that the blockades revealed a mismatch between jurisdictional authorities and responsibilities?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 84 24-084-28

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. Mr. Commissioner, I know I’m at the end of my time. I just have a couple more questions.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 85 24-085-10

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Thank you. Mr. Ossowski, Mayor Dilkens of Windsor, we’ve heard that he wrote to the Ontario and Federal Governments in March earlier this year and he stated that following the blockades, the need for broader collaboration and support, and I think in this case he meant of local authorities, from Provincial and Federal Governments to bolster the safety and security of our borders appears obvious. Do you agree with Mayor Dilkens?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 85 24-085-15

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And given the particular jurisdictional issues surrounding international bridges, like those in Windsor, and the evidence that you’ve already given, would you agree that a specific plan should be developed by all three levels of government for international border crossings?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 85 24-085-25

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Okay. And my final question, Mr. Ossowski, and thank you, Mr. Commissioner, for this indulgence, would you agree then that coordination across all three levels of government, including the coordination of responsibilities and responsibility for costs should be part of that plan?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 86 24-086-10

Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)

Thank you. Those are my questions.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 86 24-086-20

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Good morning. For the record, my name is Stephanie Bowes. I’m counsel for the Government of Alberta. I’ll ask the Clerk to please pull up the Institutional Report, DOJ.IR, and I believe it’s 00000006. And when that report is up, I’ll ask to scroll down to page 35. I just want to ask some questions about the accommodations made during the Coutts border closure at different ports of entry in Alberta. And I’m not going to run through this chart, other than to note that there are days during the course of the blockade where traffic was -- commercial traffic was travelling through the Coutts Port of Entry, but there were also days when there were no traffic. In particular, January 31st to February 2nd. Do you understand that that was at a time when Highway 4 was completely blockaded?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 86 24-086-25

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And then we see that again on February 9th for reasons of a blockade?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 87 24-087-14

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And then on February 13th and 14th, that was due to the RCMP request for the closure of the Coutts port of entry; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 87 24-087-17

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

The suspension, thank you. And then if we go to page 36 in the institutional report, we can see the charts for the Del Bonita and Caraway [sic] ports of entry, and those charts will track some of the changes in traffic through those ports. And there were accommodations made to try to accommodate some of that commercial traffic that would normally travel through Coutts to these two ports of entry; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 87 24-087-21

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

For example, Del Bonita, which was normally closed on Saturdays and Sundays, was opened on February 12th and 13th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-02

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And hours were extended at both Del Bonita and Caraway [sic].

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-06

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Carway? Thank you. I also understand that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Services permitted boxed meat to go through other ports of entry and then reroute to Sweetgrass, Montana for USDA inspection; is that correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-09

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And Sweetgrass, Montana is basically on the other -- on the Montana side of the Coutts port of entry; is that right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-16

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And the USCBP also agreed to facilitate the clearance of livestock at any port into the United States with the carrier then diverting to a location that had USDA and veterinary services?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-20

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And the CBSA allowed livestock shipments coming into Canada to be inspected at Sweetgrass and then divert to another port of entry while services were suspended at Coutts; is that correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 88 24-088-25

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Now, did the Coutts port of entry experience any other protest or blockade disruptions after February 15th?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 89 24-089-02

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Activity, but did it affect services at the Coutts port of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 89 24-089-15

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Okay. And you were asked a question by Commission Counsel about a reference attributed to you, wherein you referred to the Emergencies Act, and I believe your response was that you think you were referring to provincial powers under emergency legislation to compel somebody to render services, for example, towing services. Is that correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 89 24-089-18

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Yes.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 89 24-089-27

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And you were specifically thinking about Alberta and powers that it may have under its legislation?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-01

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And you were ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-07

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Right. And I just want to clarify one thing because Commission Counsel put to you that it was under the Critical Infrastructure Defence Act. You said no, you believed it was under emergency legislation; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-11

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

And if I told you that the legislation you're referring to is the Emergency Management Act, would that accord with your memory of what you were likely referring to?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-17

Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)

Okay. Thank you, those are all my questions.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-22

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Good morning, Commissioner. Can you hear me?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 90 24-090-26

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Unfortunately, it appears my video is not working. I do have it on. My apologies. If you'll allow it, I'd like to proceed. I only have a few brief questions for Mr. Ossowski.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-01

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. Thank you very much.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-06

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Mr. Ossowski, good morning. My name's Jinan Kubursi, and I'm counsel for the Ontario Provincial Police, and I have just a few brief questions for you on the topic of intelligence and information-sharing among agencies. So I understand from the witness summary you were also interviewed with your colleague, Mr. Harris, who was the Vice-President of Intelligence and Enforcement at the CBSA during the convoy. Is that correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-08

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Scott Harris, I should say his full name.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-18

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

And so I expect that you rely on Mr. Harris to report up to you with respect to intelligence; is that fair to say?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-21

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Right. And -- so of course, I appreciate that you may not be aware of the details with respect to processes and sources of information within the Intelligence and Enforcement Branch of the CBSA, but I'd like to ask, were you aware that the OPP Intelligence Bureau was in fact actively sharing Freedom Convoy related intelligence throughout the period of the convoy in January and February of 2022?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 91 24-091-25

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. So given that you generally remember that happening... If we could just, Clerk, perhaps pull up the witness summary. It's WTS46. We were referring to it earlier in your evidence today. Now, if we go to page 3, I'd just like to look at that second paragraph. And if we go a little bit into the second paragraph, it says: "To Mr. Harris' knowledge, the CBSA did not provide or receive unique intelligence disclosures from or to law enforcement partners prior to the arrival of the convoy in Ottawa..." Mr. Ossowski, from what you just said, it seems to me that you did have a general awareness that the OPP was providing some intelligence information to the CBSA, or you have become aware of that at some point.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 92 24-092-06

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. And you know, it's not that I'm questioning Mr. Harris' knowledge as set out in this witness summary, but just from the perspective of the OPP, just want to ensure that the record is accurate with respect to information-sharing in the Intelligence realm. And so for that reason, I'd like us to please pull up, Clerk, OPP4577 if you could. And Mr. Ossowski, this is a distribution list from the OPP's Intelligence Bureau that we'll take a look at together here. And also, for the record, this distribution list is referred to at the OPP's institutional report at page 23. But Mr. Ossowski, we can see here that... If we just scroll up to the top. This says Original Partner Agencies. It's dated 22nd of February 2020. And if we just scroll down to page 3. And I appreciate, Mr. Ossowski, I expect you have not laid eyes on this document before.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 93 24-093-07

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Is that correct? Yes. Okay. But if we take a look at page 3, and scroll down. This is a bit of a challenge, but there. We can see at the bottom there, there's Melanie Rose at CBSA. Can you confirm that you see that entry ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 93 24-093-25

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

--- with that CBSA email address.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-03

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Do you know who Melanie Rose is?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-06

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

No? And if we scroll down a little further to page 5, we'll go about halfway down, again, just seeing -- again, we see a CBSA address. Clerk, I think you can continue. On that page, we will see some additional CBSA addresses. Joshua Newby, for example. Mr. Ossowski, so you confirm that you can see that this distribution list includes some CBSA staff?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-09

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-18

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

And are you familiar with Joshua Newby, just to assist us in understanding his role within the organization?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-20

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-24

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. One last quick point. Thank you very much, Commissioner. Clerk, if you could pull up PB.CAN.00001535, please? I'd like to take a look at that document. Okay. If you could perhaps reduce it? I believe towards the middle of the document there should be an indication of the role of Josh Newby in this mandate protest incident command structure. Mr. Ossowski, do you see that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 94 24-094-27

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. And so according to this chart, it appears that Josh Newby was executive director in dealing with the mandate protest. Is that what we see here?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 95 24-095-08

Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)

Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Those are all my questions. Thank you, Commissioner, for that additional time. Thank you. Those are all my questions.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 95 24-095-12

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Good morning. I'm Hatim Kheir, Counsel for the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms. The first topic I wanted to ask you about is the power for border agents to turn people away if they are coming to participate in a protest under the Emergencies Act.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 95 24-095-19

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

So you testified that that was one of the powers that was granted to border agents by the Emergency Regulations?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 95 24-095-25

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

And you were also asked about the ability of border agents to turn away people who are coming for a known unlawful purpose and they could do that if they knew about that; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-01

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Sorry, before the Emergency Measures were ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-06

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right, but you were asked if you knew someone was -- if your agents, sorry, were -- knew that an individual was coming to enter the country in order to engage in unlawful activity, your agents could turn that person away; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-11

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. And you indicated that one of the problems with that is that your agents would actually have to know that a person is coming for that purpose, which could be difficult; right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-18

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

And under the Emergency Regulations, your agents could turn someone away if they were known to be coming to engage in a certain kind of prohibited public gathering that might breach the peace through ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-23

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. So but your agents would then face the same problem in terms of having to identify a person's intentions; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 96 24-096-28

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. And the same thing would happen if a person's purpose for coming was an unlawful reason; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 97 24-097-08

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Okay. Thank you. And the other topic I wanted to ask you, so you described how the CBSA was able to help facilitate obtaining tow trucks by waiving the requirement for a work permit to enter the country; correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 97 24-097-12

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Okay. So under the normal circumstances, there's some sort of a regulation, I assume, that requires them to have a work permit?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 97 24-097-23

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. So and just trying to understand how that actual process worked, would it fall under the discretion that border agents have when they're enforcing these laws to just not ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-01

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

--- apply that ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-06

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. But would I be correct in thinking that that would operate as an exercise of the border agent's discretion to simply not apply what would normally be the requirement for entry into the country?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-11

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Okay. But what I'm trying to get at is the operation of law that's happening here. It's a decision not to apply a law that normally exists ---

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-21

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

--- right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-25

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Right. Okay. Now we heard yesterday from Deputy Commissioner Curtis Zablocki that one of the things that the RCMP tried to do in Coutts was to obtain tow trucks from the United States but some of them couldn't actually come and help because they were unvaccinated. Did the CBSA waive any of the vaccine requirements for tow truck drivers to come and help?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 98 24-098-28

Hatim Kheir, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)

Okay. Those are all my questions. Thank you for answering them.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 99 24-099-08

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Mr. Commissioner, if it's all the same to you, I would probably benefit from the break to just tighten up my examination a little bit, but I could also go, if that's your preference.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 99 24-099-13

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Thank you, Commissioner. For the record, I am Andrea Gonsalves, counsel for the Government of Canada. Mr. Ossowski, you mentioned in your testimony that the impacts of the blockades in the protest activity were coast to coast and the situation was escalating and unpredictable. Do you recall that evidence?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-03

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And you testified that there were official service disruptions at three ports of entry, Emerson, Ambassador Bridge, and Pacific Highway?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-11

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Right.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-16

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And at the Pacific Highway, it was in fact, two times there were border alerts issued, right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-19

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And the second one was after the Government of Canada had invoked the Emergencies Act on February 19th, right?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-23

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And there was then the service suspension at the Coutts port of entry. But is it accurate to say that the impacts were experienced beyond just these service disruptions and the service suspension and at other ports of entry?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 100 24-100-27

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

You mentioned in your evidence in response to Commission counsel's questions the delays, the added travel distances and times of having to divert to other ports of entry, that this created problems in particular for just in time supply chain, manufacturers, as well as for perishables or livestock.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 101 24-101-08

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

We have heard some evidence that at some ports of entry, there were alternate roads, in some cases, gravel roads. Were those a viable option for commercial traffic looking to cross the border?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 101 24-101-15

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Let's go to SSM.MSC.CAN00000050. This is the CBSA sitrep as of February 12th, so that’s the Saturday of the third weekend, 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. And if we just scroll down, we see reports of activity at Cornwall. Mr. Ossowski, I understand that the port of entry at Cornwall is particularly complex jurisdictionally; is that correct?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 101 24-101-25

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And so the members of that First Nation live on an island that is between the Canadian side where the port of entry is located, and the US side; is that accurate?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 102 24-102-10

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And for members of that First Nation, then, if they want to access any services on the mainland on the Canadian side, they have to pass through the port of entry.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 102 24-102-17

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And so a disruption to that port of entry would be particularly problematic for that community.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 102 24-102-22

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Okay. And then also on February 12th there are incidents being reported at Lansdowne, which I understand is in the Thousand Islands area?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 102 24-102-26

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Ambassador Bridge, Peace Bridge -- let’s scroll down -- Sarnia, Blue Water, Emerson, Coutts, Pacific Highway. And then there’s a table there of upcoming protest events that are ongoing, confirmed, and unconfirmed.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-02

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Mr. Ossowski, does that help illustrate the coast-to-coast dynamic that you testified about earlier?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-08

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And did the protests and slow rolls and blockades near ports of entry stop on or before February 14th, or did they continue after?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-12

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And we can look to the details of that in the chronology in the CBSA Institutional Report?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-17

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

You mentioned port hardening measures that were imposed at the time. Are those still in effect?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-21

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Now, in response to some questions earlier, I understood you agreed with the statement that prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act and the EMRs, CBSA could use the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to stop a foreign national from entering Canada to join an unlawful protest. Do you recall those exchanges?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 103 24-103-26

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And I just want to be clear; my understanding is that under the IRPA, there must be an assessment made that an individual poses a danger to Canada, or will engage in violent crime when they cross over into Canada. Am I correct on that?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-05

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And where that assessment is made, it’s not the situation that the CBSA would prohibit entry, but rather it would look to detain the individual?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-11

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And then there are two options from there: Either to transfer the individual to the police of jurisdiction to handle concerns about future crime; that’s one option.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-15

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Or CBSA could prepare an Inadmissibility Report on security grounds under IRPA and then that would trigger the inadmissibility process before the Immigration Board; that would be the other option?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-20

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And both of those entail delay and expenditure of resources that is significant?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-25

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

So it’s not a situation of being analogous to the EMR provisions that create a direct back power where the individual could simply be denied entry.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 104 24-104-28

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Okay. You testified that CBSA collected information from open sources, including social media in relation to the convoy protest.

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-04

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And based on the information that was available to you, did you understand that there were connections between the Ottawa protests and the border blockades?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-08

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

So let’s go to PB.CAN.00001317. (SHORT PAUSE)

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-18

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And this is an email from Lynne Lamarche, who’s with the CBSA?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-21

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And if we scroll down, she discusses reports this morning from information received by BIS operations. What’s BIS?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-24

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

Okay. And pasted there is information received from the public by email, and we see where it’s shaded in the first bullet: “In Alberta, those who cannot go to Ottawa are being encouraged to block the Coutts border and not move until the demands in Ottawa are met.” And so is that the sort of information that you’re discussing when you said about energies feeding each other?

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 105 24-105-28

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)

And let’s go to PB.CAN.00001523. (SHORT PAUSE)

Volume 24 (November 16, 2022), page 106 24-106-11

Andrea Gonsalves, Counsel (GC)