Catherine McKenney

Catherine McKenney spoke 282 times across 1 day of testimony.

  1. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I’ll affirm, please.


  2. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Catherine Ann McKenney. C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E A-N-N M-C-K-E-N-N-E-Y.


  3. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I do.


  4. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  5. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Correct, yes.


  6. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I do not.


  7. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  8. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    The ward I represent is Somerset Ward. We’re located in it. The boundary is the Canal to the Trillium Line, just west of Preston, and then north to the Ottawa River, south to the Queensway, except that Preston, it goes down to Carling for about three blocks and then back up LeBreton.


  9. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it does.


  10. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, of course. So the largest concentration is -- occurs from Laurier going -- you know, going south.


  11. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  12. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  13. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. And ---


  14. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    And it goes south from there. And of course, Laurier from Kent going west.


  15. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    On Laurier, there are several high rises as well.


  16. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  17. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    The densest parts are to Metcalfe to the east, although there are some residential -- some residences on Elgin, but Elgin is a traditional mainstreet. So Metcalfe, ---


  18. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- certainly. And then going west, Bronson, however, Bronson going -- you know, past Bronson going down Wellington towards Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway also has some multi-residential buildings there as well. But Bronson, certainly in the Centretown area, is the border.


  19. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So primarily on Kent going south, as far down as Kent and Somerset is as far the occupation ever really extended, so Kent to Somerset, Bank Street.


  20. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    All right.


  21. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, just up from ---


  22. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  23. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  24. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Bank Street had truck parked on it down Bank as far as, I would say, Lisgar. So Lisgar is just north of Somerset ---


  25. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- one block north.


  26. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    And then Metcalfe and O’Connor but it would expand during the weekends when more vehicles came into the city on the weekends. So Metcalfe and O’Connor, at times, mostly on the weekends, could have a lot of vehicles parked ---


  27. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- but it did expand and contract depending on the time of the week.


  28. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  29. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, on the first weekend, people were braced for, you know, what they anticipated would be serious disruption. They were surprised when -- and frustrated and angry when the city and/or police allowed trucks to actually enter non-truck routes. So trucks -- very large trucks parked along Queen Elizabeth Driveway, for example, which is not a truck route, and stayed there for the weekend, and then coming down Kent, Metcalfe, O’Connor. So there was, you know, that first weekend, more of a bracing just to kind of get through the weekend. Started to see almost immediately -- and I started to receive emails and it was on social media -- symbols of hatred, you know, swastikas and Confederate flags, you know, Pride flags being, you know, targeted, so there was fear. Certainly, people that first weekend who were reporting back to me, and calling me, and emailing were fearful but they were braced for it and, you know, had been told that would it end on Monday and waited for that. So after Monday, when it didn’t end, it just became -- you know, in the words of people who were, you know, calling me and talking to me, they felt that they were under a great deal of threat, seniors reporting that they, you know, had trouble going out, they felt threatened when they went into a grocery store, you know, residents not being able to leave their apartments. I had to help on couple leave the downtown with a police escort on the first weekend. There was a Pride flag in their window. They’re apartment was targeted. Somebody had defecated on the back step. And then later that night, you know, a pickup truck with angry people in it came back and were harassing and yelling at them so, at that point, they felt very unsafe and we had a police escort them out. So it was, you know, a general sense of fear, terror, and, you know, dismay that they felt abandoned by their city and by their police.


  30. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, they were, Sparks Street in particular and also Bank Street. Bank Street ended up being closed down with trucks parked on it, all the way south to just north of Somerset. So I would say Lisgar. Again, on the weekends is when it really -- things would escalate. The transit stations were taken over. There were makeshift kitchens. There were barrels with fires burning on the street. And yeah, it was impossible for anyone to move about without encountering the people in the city who were occupying the city at the time.


  31. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So I started to go out after the first weekend, Monday, when we knew that, you know, about 80 percent of the large trucks left. But the 20 percent that were left were remaining and had -- you could see no intention of leaving anytime soon. And as Councillor Fleury said, we would get this surge of people coming into the city who were sympathetic to the, you know, original convoy that had entered. I started to go out at that week, walk around. I would go through the convoy and observe. I would meet with residents who were feeling threatened. I delivered food to some people. I delivered pet food to some people, in particular, who were living in some of our community housing buildings who felt very threatened and not able to go out. I organized one -- what we called the safety walk so that we could come out together as a community. And that happened the second week. But you know, we stayed within the residential area away from, you know, where the convoy had taken root. We had organized a second one and we called it off because the environment just felt more threatening and I didn’t -- my fear through all of this and my key concern through all of this was the safety of residents that I represent. You know, there was nothing more on my mind than the safety of the people that live in the city and that I represent. So you know, again it would get the surge on the weekends and you know, I have stated before and I will again, you know, I was always careful when I went down, walked through the convoy. I was accosted on a few occasions but not, you know -- never felt that I was in any real danger. But walking home through the residential streets was always when I felt the most threatened. It’s often when I was threatened. You know, homophobic slurs, transphobic slurs, just you know, people recognizing me from media or other means. So it was more, you know, on the streets going home it was more those isolated incidents that were the greatest threat throughout the -- and that’s what I heard from residents as well. You know, it was uncomfortable. They had to stay safe walking through the convoy especially if they wore a mask, racialized. But it was outside of that where it was more so the people who were sympathetic to the convoy who were coming into the city and causing that type of fear.


  32. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I do.


  33. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. It would indicate that it’s on Metcalf Street, either Metcalfe, Nepean. It's just behind the Shopify building, which is on Elgin.


  34. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  35. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it is.


  36. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it is.


  37. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it is.


  38. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Certainly, it was very consistent with other messages I received, but also social media that I was being sent. And also, just being in the area for days and having that type of horn noise going on almost 24/7, it was very -- it almost never stopped. It might for a half-an-hour now and then, and it would start up again, and it just traumatized residents. So it was very difficult to absorb that terror that residents were living under. It's why I just went down every day just so that I would be able to give voice to it.


  39. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I do.


  40. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it is.


  41. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it does.


  42. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    This is one of hundreds of emails that I received with this very, very similar description of what was happening for people who lived in the residential area, in Centre Town. By this time, anybody who could leave was leaving. I had parents calling me from out of town trying to get their adult children out of that area. So this was the beginning when people in Centre Town, if they could leave they were, and people being -- people who were left behind, for the most part, relayed this type of experience to me for three-and-a-half weeks, and they had nowhere else to go.


  43. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it did subside. The horns certainly subsided. There were still some instances, you know, in the following days, where, you know, horns would start up again, but overall we were not getting, you know, that constant airhorn from 7:00 a.m. until 11:00 or 1:00 even. It did have a -- it did make a dramatic improvement in terms of the horns.


  44. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So I’m not certain if February 12th was the weekend. What I can tell you is that on the weekends when we would get a surge of people who were sympathetic to the occupation coming into the city, it would become much, much more disruptive, much louder, but also even though after the injunction things were quieter, it would pick up at times, absolutely.


  45. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That makes sense. It looked like a Saturday, judging from the video.


  46. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I didn’t personally witness any acts of violence. I was -- you know, I was told about them. I had -- actually, it was a friend. It was reported in the media. She’s 70, or was 70 at the time, and she was at the corner of Somerset and Bronson, and this was on a weekend. And a man who had come into the city, you know, who had flags on him and was part of the surge, the weekend surge, punched her in the face. So that’s a friend of mine. That’s somebody I know. I didn’t know it was her at the time when it was reported. I found out later that it was her. And someone reported to me that a friend of theirs was wearing a mask on our light rail train, was accosted for wearing the mask, and ended up having his nose broken. But that was -- that’s not something that I witnessed first hand. Also, we had instances, you know, where people reported back that, you know, they would try to go out, they were circled by people, you know, intimidating them, asking for police help, it just wasn’t there. People just felt very abandoned while there was, you know, the -- while this was happening in their residential area, in their neighbourhood. They also had no security. Everything was focused on Wellington Street and north of Laurier. And police just weren’t responding to the threats that people felt that they were under. So that was reported to me in hundreds of phone calls, as I was downtown with people, and just, you know, general lawlessness without any security available for people.


  47. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. So early on, I was. You know, not every email. I would, you know, answer emails, respond to emails, try to get as much information out to residents as possible. Every day I would consider what residents -- what information they needed. So I would respond in that way. It was just -- it was hundreds of emails. Four staff who did nothing but respond all day long. You know, certainly when it was, you know, if it was something that was, you know, was being relayed to me that, you know, criminal, you know, I would forward that to police. But by, you know, a week in, when I just didn’t feel anyone was taking the complaints very seriously and they were just getting more and more -- what I was hearing was just getting more and more serious and worrisome, I -- every day I would bundle up emails and send it to who was then the Chief of Police, the Police Services Board, our City Manager, Mayor, and I would just send it all and tell them, you know, it was for -- if I knew I would be hear one day, it was for the inevitable inquiry into what is going -- you know, what will be an inquiry into this. I just didn’t know what else to do by that point. I just didn’t feel that there was any support available for us.


  48. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I have.


  49. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, I don’t.


  50. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I recall receiving emails. I can't say that I recall this one in particular, but I recall receiving emails that indicated that the residents did not feel that there was an OPS presence in Centretown.


  51. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I do.


  52. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It was the beginning. You know, we -- this was, you know, the first week in, Monday. We expected the convoy to leave. It didn't. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday things were just getting more and more chaotic, more dangerous for residents. We were, you know, we were told that there would be a heightened police presence in the residential areas, and it just didn't happen. You could walk around the residential areas and, well, the chaos was happening. People were being harassed. Sometimes they were being followed. They -- you know, certainly reporting back to me, you know, people who had been, you know, assaulted. And there was no police presence in their residential area. It was just all up at -- on the hill, on Wellington and the Parliamentary precinct area.


  53. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I do.


  54. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That's correct.


  55. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I took it as an indication from the councillor, who was also a member of the Police Services Board, that she was also frustrated with the police response into the occupation.


  56. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, I took it to mean -- the "we", I took it to mean we as my council colleagues, we as Police Services Board.


  57. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  58. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    If I could, at least from my perspective, it was Laurier and south of Laurier where we had no police presence, so I'm not entirely certain if at that point it was being referred to as a red zone. But it was north of Laurier where police resources were almost exclusively focused. And if I could just give one example, and you know, I work very well with our community police officer. She’s the head of our NRT, our Neighbourhood Response Team. She was my direct contact and one day I asked her if she would come with me to a building that had an attempted arson with doors taped. Residents were very frightened and she just reported back and said, “I’m sorry, but I’m being re-appointed to the convoy.” So I knew then that police felt their response to the convoy did not include residential areas.


  59. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. This is at Metcalfe, just south of Laurier.


  60. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  61. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t recall getting a response, no.


  62. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, certainly it was moving east, Metcalfe, O’Connor, and then south down Metcalfe O’Connor to -- you know, Lisgar probably was as far south on Metcalfe and O’Connor that it expanded to. But yes, it was starting to grow at that point. Again, more so on the weekends but people were very nervous when they -- seeing that, you know, this occupation was expanding onto the streets where they lived.


  63. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh no, I went down pretty much every day.


  64. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. This is Kent Street. It’s late at night. There are trucks idling, constant idling. And the reason for the video was to demonstrate the effect on people’s homes. They’re parked in the front steps of people’s homes essentially with, you know, emissions pouring directly into people’s bedroom windows.


  65. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I saw this every night for the entire occupation at this area, in this area.


  66. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it is.


  67. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, Kiavash Najafi.


  68. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So this was the Wednesday of the final -- the council meeting just before the occupation ended when I went down to Kent Street to record what I was seeing. I called into Council from Kent Street and what I was doing, just in order to demonstrate to my colleagues what was happening, and you know to show others what people were living under. And at this point this was at the beginning of the council meeting. We were still on Zoom so at the beginning of the council meeting it was only the people who were allowed in as panelists, so council, the clerk’s office, et cetera, staff, senior staff who could see what I was video taping. So normally the camera would be turned back at me and I would be sitting in my dining room. But I was down on Kent Street, turned the camera around. And while council was being introduced, rather than just sit there, I had the camera turned so that it would be evident to people in the council meeting what was happening on Kent St. that day.


  69. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it was.


  70. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, this is also on Kent, Kent at Nepean.


  71. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I think I spoke to at least one of them on one occasion, one of the gentlemen here.


  72. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, so this is Kent Street where the occupation took very strong root. And each block -- I learned this because I spoke to people as I travelled up and down Kent through the three weeks. Each block had a block captain. And, you know, there would be supplies brought in. There were often fires burning in barrels, trucks running. It was just an occupied street, I guess, is the best way to describe it. Yeah.


  73. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    M’hm. Well, certainly, as you can see, there are fires burning in the middle of our downtown street outside a residential area. There are -- you can’t see it in this photo but, you know, some of the video that I took shows, you know, jerry cans around with oil -- with gasoline. Often, in the middle of the night, there were fireworks. So everything combined just made for an exceptionally dangerous environment people feet away from their bedrooms, their kitchens, their children’s living area, schools in the downtown.


  74. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I do.


  75. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I started to hear from residents early that morning and one of -- a colleague, Jean Menard, who is the councillor for that area, that -- again, it was a weekend -- that vehicles were expected to enter, you know, into the city to join -- to join the occupation. There were two locations where they were expected, one was a more residential area in the Glebe, Fifth Avenue, and the other -- the other route was along Riverside at Billings Bridge. Through, you know, some communication, it was decided that people would go down and try to stop these vehicles from coming in and joining the occupation. It was decided that the residential area would be the location for this counter- demonstration. There was always a fear of violence affecting residents in their homes so it was decided it would occur on Riverside where there were no residents living.


  76. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  77. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  78. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, so by the time I arrived, there were hundreds of people there. There was a line of mostly trucks, pickup trucks, you know, with the flags that indicated they were sympathetic to the convoy lined up, stopped. And it was -- you know, certainly there was no threats of violence there. It was relatively peaceful. The general mood of the people in their vehicles is -- you know, I went up and down the street -- was one of, I think, a bit of surprise that residents, at least who were there, weren’t welcoming them into the city. But it just continued until about 4:30 when it started to get dark -- it was February -- and the decision was made just to allow each vehicle to leave one at a time if they, you know -- you know, if they would ensure that they would just leave and not go into the downtown, which they did. And they were asked to remove the flags from their vehicles.


  79. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  80. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, sorry, it was people physically standing in front of each of the vehicles and not allowing them to move any further. And as it -- by the time I got there, there were enough people that, you know, it was just blocked. The street was completely filled with people surrounding each of the vehicles.


  81. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, they are.


  82. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, again, it was, as you can see, almost celebratory. It was peaceful. Police interacted mostly with residents. And, you know, it was a watershed moment, certainly, in terms of the overall occupation where it became very evident that residents were no longer going to just sit idly by, that they were going to take, you know, action where they felt that they could, and this is what you are seeing.


  83. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, that day it was very celebratory. I went down in the afternoon. I had been -- in the morning, I had gone down onto Kent and onto Wellington, walked around, visited residents who were feeling threatened down on McLeod at Bank. There had been an incident where doors of a multi-residential building had been handcuffed shut. So I’d been down into that area so I went later to Billings Bridge, so it was probably about 1:30 before I got there, two o’clock. By the time I got there, it was a celebratory mood, really.


  84. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    We needed OPS protect residents. This was residents’ only way to ensure that, you know, what was happening to our city was going to be recognized and responded to by OPS. You know, there were -- it was not a large of police, you know, present, so out of the hundreds of police officers up on Wellington, this would have been a small number.


  85. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, mostly through social media. You know, I -- as Councillor Fleury did, started to ask those questions. You know, we saw the messages coming out of, you know, the more western provinces leading up to January 28th, that week leading up, but, you know, every day just became a bit clearer as to the intentions. You know, at that point, we called them disruptions.


  86. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    M’hm. Well, certainly, there was never a lane open on Kent Street. There was -- Bank Street would have the lane open maybe as far as Lisgar but on the weekend, certainly, you could not get past Lisgar going north. And the same with Metcalfe and O’Connor, on the weekends, often they were completely blocked. But Kent in particular, you could never get any emergency vehicle down.


  87. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t have that specific information, no.


  88. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Only what I was able to observe, obviously, within the core of the downtown. Bylaw was not handing out tickets to, you know, large trucks. As you went west, you know, by the time you got onto the other side of the Trillium Line tracks, you know, we were starting to get complaints that parents parked outside schools were getting tickets. So they were ticketing in some instances, certainly outside of the ward that I represent. But you know, I don’t have any examples of calling Bylaw. I didn’t call Bylaw to come and ticket large trucks. I don’t think anyone did. But you know, as we moved west, a certain bylaw was active.


  89. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  90. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I do.


  91. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  92. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  93. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  94. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So it was quite evident that the local police force was solely focused on Wellington Street and the surrounding parliamentary precinct. And when I say parliamentary precinct in this case, I'm including Wellington, although I know it's not formally part of the precinct. So it was very clear that, you know, our local police force was focused on what was essentially a federal protest, federal occupation. So I was doing everything I could to appeal to our federal government, our federal partners to assume responsibility for what was happening, and, you know, about, you know, getting any reaction. I ended up bringing a motion to Council, asking for the mayor to appeal on behalf of the City.


  95. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I believe so, but ---


  96. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I think it carried.


  97. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  98. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, it did not.


  99. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    You know, I mean, nobody ever really followed up with me as the local councillor, so I can't tell you specifically. But nothing ever came of it. The assumption of -- or the addition of police -- extra police resources didn't happen until much later, of course.


  100. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  101. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Not that I recall, no.


  102. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It did not.


  103. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, there wasn't much in terms of jurisdiction that City Council could do. Certainly, this was, you know, under the jurisdiction of police. This was a police matter. It was a public safety issue. You know, outside of, you know, delaying committee meetings to allow myself, my colleague Councillor Fleury to focus on what was happening, calling on, you know, police or even writing to the federal government, asking the mayor to write to the federal government to, you know, ask for help, there really wasn't a lot that a City Council in itself could do to end this or to respond in any significant way.


  104. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, so the motions that had started to come forward certainly were, you know, of the nature, if you will -- you know, asking for a more coordinated response, asking, you know -- but I will say this, and again, it’s not necessarily Council, but you know, where the City did fail residents was in not -- you know, we have a Legal Department, we have expertise on staff and, you know, it took a private resident to, you know, come forward with an injunction to stop the horns. You know, that’s where in my opinion the City failed in its responsibility to residents. The declaration of an emergency was just that; it was symbolic. Nothing occurred as a result of that; horns didn’t stop; trucks didn’t stop idling, you know, the harassment didn’t stop, nothing stopped, if that’s all that had happened. Yeah, it had no effect essentially. So when the motion started to come forward, you know, my opinion, and it’s just my opinion, like some of it was, you know, to demonstrate that we’re, you know, as a Council or different councillors trying to do something to move it forward. It became desperate really. It was, you know, grappling at straws really to find a way as a city to bring to an end what was a federal crisis.


  105. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  106. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  107. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, again, it wasn’t an injunction. There was, you know, I think that -- you could see from the evidence that trucks continued to idle; people, you know, who were occupying those streets, it was February, it was extremely cold and trucks -- large trucks, vehicles, in some cases cars just continued to idle.


  108. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, certainly as I indicated earlier; to have an engaged Council and staff looking at all options, which included in the end injunctions, injunctions, you know, on horns, injunctions on idling, but with strength. Certainly that would have, at the very least, eased some of the stressors, the pressures that residents were, you know, under throughout this -- throughout the siege. You know, in the end I still pen that it was our local police who, you know, in the beginning made a -- you know, a serious error in allowing trucks to come into our City off of routes. Actually I think they put up signs and actually, you know, pointed to where they could park and that. And then, you know, our federal government, our provincial government, not responding in a way that in any way suggested that they, you know, felt that having their capital under siege, or losing their capital. Really, we had a residential neighbourhood that was lost, that was under siege and no other level of government was taking it seriously. And until that happened, you know, we weren’t going to see an end to the occupation. And it really was about the resources in the end. It really was about what I called for early in the occupation. We need to have those extra resources brought in, you know, local police were not going to be able to respond once the occupation took route.


  109. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, certainly his response to me, as the councillor, you know, responsible for the residents for the downtown, of Somerset ward, I never received a phone call from the mayor. It wasn’t until somebody mentioned it publicly that a meeting was called, myself, and several councillors, and the police chief, and the mayor. So, you know, there was no attempt to work with me to provide guidance, to provide resources, support for, you know, residents. It’s not about me personally. I didn’t need any of that but the people I represent certainly did. You know, there was no urgency from the mayor to respond, to provide the information that people needed, to respond to the concerns that were, you know -- you know, that were being brought to his attention and that of many others. I forwarded, in the end, many, many emails and instances of, you know, chaos in the -- you know, in the residential areas. So yeah, it was very difficult. It felt like, you know, for myself, that I was on my own to respond to what was happening in Centretown.


  110. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it was.


  111. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So this was a council meeting after the mayor had made some arrangement with one of the convoy organizers to remove trucks from the residential area. That did not happen. And this council meeting was Wednesday. I was very, very concerned -- more than concerned. I was really quite frightened that another weekend would bring, you know, just so much more chaos. We just could not go through another weekend. And I was very concerned -- you know, that the mayor was relaying to council and to the public that trucks had been relocated off of residential streets. I decided, you know, probably an hour before council that I had to do something and I went down to Kent Street and I -- you know, I called in council from there to demonstrate that these trucks were still here. I needed people to see what was happening. It was very difficult because you would hear from people -- I would get emails. I got an exceptional amount of hate throughout the whole three and a half weeks but it was getting worse -- personal threats to myself, my family -- and there was so much -- people were dismissing what was happening -- not everyone, of course. I got tremendous support from across the city, people emailing me they saw what was happening and they supported that, but I just did feel that police, the City, or -- had a plan for the weekend. It was Wednesday night -- Wednesday night. We just couldn’t. Friday was the day that it all began again. So it was really a plea and a demonstration to everyone watching, what was happening to people who live here on Kent Street. You can see the residential towers on Kent Street. That’s their front lawn. That’s where they live.


  112. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, after this video I began to hear more regularly from the interim Police Chief that there was a plan in place. I got more specific information, not detailed, and I wasn’t looking for detailed information, but that there was a plan in place to bring in the resources to end the occupation over the weekend.


  113. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, it was.


  114. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  115. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, from Centennial, which is close to ---


  116. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It’s about six blocks from here, yes. And also Devonshire, which is not in the Ward I represent, it’s just on the -- just to the west a block or two. But after Pat King had encouraged, you know, people -- his supporters to go around schools, I heard from several parents that that was actually happening in and around Devonshire and I brought that to the attention of Chief Sloly.


  117. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, I never heard from City staff on that issue.


  118. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh, absolutely. The smell of diesel fumes on Kent Street and in that, you know, the center of the occupation, was actually -- made you feel ill after you were there about half an hour or an hour or so. I heard from residents daily about their concerns.


  119. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I’m familiar with one of the ---


  120. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    The Public Health names, but ---


  121. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I’ve never heard it before I saw this.


  122. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  123. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  124. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Jessica is the Assistant to Diane Deans.


  125. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I believe this came from Councillor Deans through Jessica Bradley’s email, but we were -- we were organizing walks; this would have been the first one that we were organizing. And Councillor Deans did have, you know, certainly concerns, serious concerns that, you know, they would – it would cause resources to be redirected from other areas that police were focussed on. And, you know, she also called me to explain that, you know, she understands why I was doing and why I felt I needed to do what I was doing, but that she was afraid that it would encourage further violence.


  126. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  127. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I did.


  128. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well this was February 16th. This was the day that I called into council from Kent Street and then I rushed home on LRT to get back in time for in-camera. I had to be in the secure space. So I had just gotten back to my home. The notion that Councillor Deans would be removed as Chair of the Police Services Board in what was the middle of, you know, a crisis in our city, we had a police chief who had resigned, we needed action. We needed stability. I was terrified of going into another weekend where, you know, the actions of harassment and intimidation were just increasing every weekend. And I felt very strongly that the Mayor and some members of council, but certainly the Mayor, was using this to take away any influence that Councillor Deans had vis a vie the Police Services Board and I referred to it as a power grab.


  129. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Not -- in that afternoon -- that afternoon, I figured it was coming. I had been in contact with Councillor Deans. I was trying to do everything I could to get resolution to what was happening. So I did have -- there was some indication that, you know, that there was something happening. I wasn’t brought into those conversations, of course, but when the motion dropped, it was -- it had never been communicated to me anyway.


  130. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, none that she expressed to me.


  131. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I did get an answer from the Interim Police Chief Steve Bell.


  132. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    My recollection is that he said there was no need to shelter in place or for any evacuation and that he would keep me updated as the operations moved along.


  133. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  134. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  135. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Metcalfe Nepean. Yes.


  136. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  137. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, they did.


  138. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    One -- the Farm Boy closed on one afternoon. It was overtaken by a significant amount of the occupiers. There was a message that had come out that the Independent had also, but in the end, I learned that, in fact, the occupiers had gone into the basement -- into the parking garage underneath, but in fact, the ---


  139. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- store didn’t -- the Independent did not close down.


  140. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, exactly.


  141. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  142. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  143. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  144. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is my recollection, yes.


  145. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  146. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  147. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  148. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That was what he said, yes.


  149. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    The convoy did start to arrive on Friday, yes.


  150. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  151. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That was their assessment that they relayed to us, yes.


  152. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t recall seeing this -- this email.


  153. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No. I mean it doesn’t mean that it didn’t come to me but ---


  154. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Can I ---


  155. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  156. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t -- it wasn’t sent to us. I never saw this.


  157. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  158. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    We weren’t -- yeah, I have no idea. I certainly -- we certainly were never given this information -- or this assessment, yeah.


  159. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That seems to have been conveyed, yes.


  160. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is what the Chief conveyed to us, yes.


  161. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    You’ll see --


  162. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  163. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That was his assessment, yes.


  164. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s what he said here, yes.


  165. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s what Chief Sloly says, yes.


  166. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    This is Diane Deans’.


  167. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  168. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I see.


  169. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  170. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s what it says.


  171. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I did not agree with the assessment after the first weekend, no.


  172. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh, I agreed with that. What I didn’t agree with was the assessment by the Chief that everything was under control for the weekend.


  173. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  174. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  175. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s what is being indicated here, yes.


  176. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That would be my expectation, that the most serious problems would be -- yes, would be resolved first.


  177. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  178. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  179. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  180. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  181. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. You don’t staff for surges and need for response. Of course, I understand that, yes.


  182. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  183. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I see it, yes. I don’t recall this meeting.


  184. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Massive risks to ---


  185. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- residents?


  186. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    So is this the risk to residents?


  187. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, not being a law enforcement expert, I would have to say that if police felt that there were risk implications, my job at the time was to look out for the people that I represent and their needs. Certainly their security needs weren’t being met. But if police here say that there were risk implications, that is their assessment of the situation.


  188. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    They. My pronouns are they.


  189. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I've read it. It does not.


  190. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    You know, this was three and a half weeks of constant meetings and, you know, working 15-hour days. I don’t recall every single meeting and thing that was said and brought up. And this is not helping in any way. There’s no context for what this meeting is about. I don’t disagree that it happened.


  191. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, of course. I don’t disagree that what was put down her attributed to me -- I probably did say I appreciate that everyone is doing their best on January 31st.


  192. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That most certainly was happening, yes.


  193. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    They would have preferred that police never allowed the trucks to come in on non-truck routes and park in their neighbourhood and stay. That was the key of the frustration with what was happening. And then when it couldn’t end, residents could not understand, you know, from what they were seeing, why police couldn’t take more action. And yes, on January 31st, I appreciated that everyone was probably doing their best. But the frustration that came from residents and myself really was that it should have never happened in the first place. We saw what happened in Quebec City. We saw what happened in Toronto. And that frustration just increased when we saw how other police services handled their convoys.


  194. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  195. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, I can’t speak for them but I would imagine they did.


  196. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  197. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh no, I expected every night when I went to bed to get up the next morning and that there would be an end to it. I had to believe that. It was too dangerous for the residents that I represent to ever consider that this could not end, perhaps not a lone police force, but we also have a federal government and a provincial government that were not stepping in. Nobody else was stepping in. I agreed that we needed much more resources but the fact that it took three and a half weeks is inexcusable.


  198. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Three and a half weeks later, yes.


  199. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  200. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  201. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  202. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  203. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  204. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  205. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    With the -- yes, constituents who were living in the middle of the occupation. Correct.


  206. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Of police operations? That is correct.


  207. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  208. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Hypothetically or? I guess, yeah. I don’t -- I was never looking for details of the operation. I was always looking for protection for the residents who were living in the middle of what became a violent occupation in our city.


  209. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I was looking for protection for residents and I was given absolutely no information why residents that live in the downtown were not being protected.


  210. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  211. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  212. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    As much as I can be, yes.


  213. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, I believe that they did investigate the arson, the attempted arson.


  214. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  215. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. I did not agree with that, but that is what the media release said.


  216. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, we did outreach together, as a matter of fact.


  217. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Sorry, which injunction is this?


  218. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  219. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s what it says, yes.


  220. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  221. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, absolutely.


  222. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Sorry, your previous question though referred to bylaw; right? We’re talking about the bylaw response here to tickets. So I do agree that there just weren’t enough resources, and I do agree that police did not have -- at this point, police also did not have enough resources. It’s why I called on -- I actually wrote to the Prime Minister begging for resources to come into the city. So, yes, I do agree.


  223. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh, that’s mean.


  224. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  225. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I met Ms. Li about a week after the occupation ended.


  226. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, that was -- at the time I had not met Zexi Li, I had friends who had been working in the community and I agreed to go out with them to try to encourage some of the people who were parked on Kent Street, to move along to avoid being part of that class action.


  227. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I can’t tell you when it was; I do recall that he said that.


  228. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It would be fair to say that; I can’t say that that’s the exact date; yes.


  229. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s correct.


  230. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    At the time, it was -- I was desperate to do anything to bring order into the residential areas. I saw the area around Parliament as being the responsibility of the Federal Government and that is why I asked for federal assistance, which was the RCMP.


  231. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t recall that, no.


  232. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  233. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I have, yes.


  234. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I do.


  235. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, m’hm.


  236. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  237. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That’s true.


  238. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    That is correct.


  239. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, what I felt that night in that council meeting was that two people were going to be -- had -- one had felt he needed to resign, the other was being voted off, being the chair of the board, was that we’ve had one black chief of police and this is only the, I think -- believe, second or third or third woman that has every been ---


  240. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, yeah.


  241. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I was senior staff before I was ---


  242. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Correct, yes.


  243. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  244. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  245. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Correct, but he’s the Chief of Police of the entire city.


  246. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  247. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I believe that he did but I also believe that he made an error, whether it was in judgement or he had a legal opinion on what constituted the right to protest, to bring large trucks into the downtown. We were never ever given a satisfactory explanation as to why that was allowed to occur. And from then on I believe that, you know, perhaps -- yes, I do believe that he -- I do believe that he continued to do the best he could, given the circumstances. But I go back to the fact that the trucks should have never been allowed to enter the city.


  248. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  249. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  250. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Because the vehicles were allowed into the downtown, yes.


  251. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Well, let me put it this way. Canada Day happens, and if I decide I want to drive my car up onto Wellington while the street’s shut down, I don’t have a right to do that. I have a right to protest. I've actually been in many protests and probably have obviously with my background. I've gone up to the Hill. I've been at protests but you do not -- nobody has ever given me the Charter right to take a vehicle into a protest. So I do -- you know, I'm not going to submit that the trucks coming in and allowed to park along Queen Elizabeth Drive was ever -- should have ever been allowed.


  252. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes. By the time that occurred I was desperate. The people who were in the downtown where the occupation was happening were desperate. We needed it to end. And by that point I did support the federal government’s use of the Emergency Act, yes.


  253. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  254. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    At that point, absolutely.


  255. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  256. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  257. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  258. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  259. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It was ---


  260. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah, it wasn’t us.


  261. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  262. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  263. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    It was ---


  264. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  265. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  266. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  267. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  268. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    At that point, yes, it was to enter into discussions.


  269. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  270. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  271. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Sorry, ---


  272. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    --- could you repeat -- yeah, the question.


  273. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, they were worse.


  274. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    They were worse.


  275. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yeah. They were worse.


  276. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  277. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)



  278. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Yes, I was.


  279. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    Oh, I just understood that there had been discussions with tow truck drivers to remove the large vehicles and that no tow truck drivers would take those contracts.


  280. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    No, I wasn’t.


  281. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I don’t know.


  282. Catherine McKenney, Councillor (Ott)

    I’m not aware of it, no.