Jinan Kubursi
Jinan Kubursi spoke 111 times across 7 days of testimony.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Thank you, Commissioner. This is Jinan Kubursi. I'm here for the Ontario Provincial Police, and I have no questions. Thanks.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Commissioner, good afternoon.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And good afternoon, Deputy Chief. I’m Jinan Kubursi, here representing the Ontario Provincial Police today. So we’ve heard your evidence further to questions from Commission Counsel regarding intelligence that the Windsor Police Service, you and your colleagues, were aware of and receiving in late January and early February. You recall ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- discussing that?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And so it seems to me it’s accepted, or well established at least, that as far as you’re concerned at the Windsor Police Service, that the communication flow, the receipt of the intelligence information prepared by the intelligence Bureau at the OPP was -- it was an effective communication system. The distribution for the Hendon Reports and so on.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yes. And so in addition to that intelligence that you were receiving from the Ontario Provincial Police, I understand that Windsor Police Service also had some of its own intelligence and information that was being locally gathered?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And would it be also fair to say that with all of that intelligence, and the benefit of that information, it was still not entirely clear or certain what was going to happen as these slow rolls proceeded in the area of Windsor?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so Windsor Police Service planned based on the information that you had?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Is that fair?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And also, you were in regular communication with a number of your OPP colleagues at different levels across the organization?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so can we say that there was effective communication, information sharing, and cooperation that was taking place between the OPP and the Windsor Police Service throughout this time period?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. I’d like to ask you a bit about the discussions that we’ve heard took place at the Emergency Committee. I’m not sure if that’s ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Emergency Preparedness Committee at the OACP, I understand.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And you were a participant in that committee?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And we heard that there was some discussion about what was happening in the region.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And in particular, were you familiar with what was happening in the area of the Blue Water Bridge?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right around that same time period.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I believe a document was pulled up earlier today ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- indicating that on around February 6th there was some activity around the Blue Water Bridge and that the OPP had restricted or blocked parts of Highway 402?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You’re familiar with that?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I expect we may hear a bit more evidence about that from Supt. Diana Earley from the OPP who will be appearing here tomorrow, but from your awareness of the situation, I’d just like to ask you, is it possible or was it considered as an option in Windsor to try to execute something similar to what was done in the area of the Blue Water Bridge? Or are there simply differences in the situation that, you know, lead to different decisions about planning?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So from what you’re describing, even those of us who don’t know the geography of Windsor as well as you do, it seems clear that just the geography and the nature of the approach to the Ambassador Bridge, just gives rise to a lot more complications with any effort to stop the flow of traffic in that direction.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So I understand that a plan was developed on around February 7th, I understand, to focus on the intersection right at the entrance to the bridge.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And would it be fair to say that based on the information that you knew at that point, that seemed to be a reasonable approach?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so ultimately that plan didn’t prove to be successful in dealing with the blockade entirely, and then, as we’ve heard in the evidence, things started to develop very quickly, and conversations were happening at different levels within the OPP regarding provision of resources to assist Windsor in dealing with this developing blockade.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And we heard that a team of PLT officers was among the first of the officers that were deployed to Windsor to assist and lend their expertise.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And then in addition to that, there’s been some discussion of the request for 100 officers. So I’d just like you to make clear for us, when we’re referring to those 100 officers, is it correct that you’re referring to frontline uniform officers who might be described as officers who could take on general duties; ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- patrolling, monitoring intersections?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Those sorts of duties?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So that number of officers certainly doesn’t include the number of officers that might be required for a Public Order Unit operation?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And those determinations came later after the shared command or unified command, as it’s also been referred to, was established, starting on around February 10th when Supt. Earley arrived.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Commission Counsel -- just moving to that time period. Commission Counsel referred you to an email, WPS1440, that was the email that was sent to Supt. Earley seeking her approval for a Public Order Unit Plan. Thank you for pulling that up. And you just reviewed this document with Commission Counsel, but I’d like to just pull up what I believe to be the attachment to this email, which is WPS1441. Clerk, if you could please pull that up as well, just so that we can see that attachment. And Deputy Chief, I’d like you to just take a quick look at it to confirm that this is the Public Order Deployment Plan; it’s dated February 12th.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So this was developed by the planners that arrived with Supt. Dana Earley, and were working with you.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. So there was -- when you speak of the shared command or the unified command, it appears that an effective way of putting that into operation was to play to the strengths of the different organizations.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And since the OPP had POU experience and then some other planning experience, that was taken care of by the OPP team.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And given your local expertise in the City of Windsor and policing in the City of Windsor, obviously your focus might have been on issues that require that kind of expertise.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Is that also fair? Okay.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Of course.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I’d also just like to refer as well to OPP4560, and ask you, Deputy Chief, were you also -- or I expect you also had the opportunity to review the full set of plans that was prepared by the team.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So this is a package of documents that were prepared by the OPP, but if you scroll down, Clerk, I just want to bring this document to attention. If you could scroll down further, please, several pages, it also will include a copy of that Public Order Plan, as well as some other supporting documents that supported the planning process. Okay, we can leave that for now. I expect we’ll look at that in more detail with Supt. Earley. I’m mindful of the time, Commissioner. So I would like to also ask you, Deputy Chief, so as the plan was then, you know, ready to be implemented, as determined by the Command Team -- and this happened fairly quickly, as I understand it.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You know, some might be surprised to see that a plan containing all the required elements was produced within a matter of days, but that is the reality.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. And we’ve heard some reference to the effectiveness of the OPP PLT officers who came onto the scene to support the work that some of the Windsor Police Service Liaison Officers had also been working towards, in developing rapport and communication with the protesters. Yes?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I take it you became aware that on the 11th of February, there was an effort to come to some kind of resolution with the protesters who had indicated through a PLT officer that the protesters would like to speak to someone from the provincial government, and they were asking for a letter, essentially, to that effect.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You’re familiar with that? So I’d just like to pull up that document, Mr. Clerk. It’s WPS1454. I believe my friend, Mr. Curry, I think alluded to this earlier, but I’d just like to pull it up on the screen and, Deputy Chief, have you take a look at it. Right. So if we scroll down a little bit, we see that this is February 11th; it’s addressed to Comm. Carrique. And if we continue to scroll down, it’s from Sylvia Jones, and it says: “The Government of Ontario is proposing that a meeting occur within an agreeable time period, with a select group of protest leadership...” And so on. So you’re familiar with this resolution attempt ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- that was undertaken? I understand that this letter was delivered to the protesters on the evening of February 11th.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
That’s correct? But ultimately it unfortunately did not lead to a resolution of the blockade ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- of the bridge. And in that regard, what I mean is the bridge continued to be blocked.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. If I might just have one moment? Deputy Chief, you were taken to a debrief document by Commission Counsel that had a number of comments about the experience that had taken place throughout the protest and the blockade, and then the resolution of the blockade. And you noted that you thought it was, you know, expressing opinions of particular individuals that were present there. I'd just like to ask you what, in your view, if you were asked to debrief, what would you say were the lessons learned, the things that worked or things that didn't work?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Okay. Those are all my questions. Thank you very much.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Thank you, Commissioner. We have no questions.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Commissioner, this is Jinian Kubursi for the OPP. I have no questions for Mr. Leschied. Thank you.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Excuse me, Commissioner. I'm sorry to interrupt. It's Jinan Kubursi, counsel for the OPP. Now, seeing that it is CFF14, this was a video that was provided to us over the lunchbreak. We only had an opportunity to view it once Mr. Leschied had already started his evidence. We have no context for it. We see in his witness summary that he indicates that he did not attend the protest starting on the -- February 12th with the action, so I just wonder how it is that this witness has any connection to this video or can speak to it. So that's a concern and I'd like your views.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. It’s Jinan Kubursi, and I have no questions.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
It's Jinan Kubursi for the OPP. No questions, Commissioner, thank you.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Good morning, Commissioner. Can you hear me?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Unfortunately, it appears my video is not working. I do have it on. My apologies. If you'll allow it, I'd like to proceed. I only have a few brief questions for Mr. Ossowski.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Thank you very much.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Mr. Ossowski, good morning. My name's Jinan Kubursi, and I'm counsel for the Ontario Provincial Police, and I have just a few brief questions for you on the topic of intelligence and information-sharing among agencies. So I understand from the witness summary you were also interviewed with your colleague, Mr. Harris, who was the Vice-President of Intelligence and Enforcement at the CBSA during the convoy. Is that correct?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Scott Harris, I should say his full name.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And so I expect that you rely on Mr. Harris to report up to you with respect to intelligence; is that fair to say?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And -- so of course, I appreciate that you may not be aware of the details with respect to processes and sources of information within the Intelligence and Enforcement Branch of the CBSA, but I'd like to ask, were you aware that the OPP Intelligence Bureau was in fact actively sharing Freedom Convoy related intelligence throughout the period of the convoy in January and February of 2022?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. So given that you generally remember that happening... If we could just, Clerk, perhaps pull up the witness summary. It's WTS46. We were referring to it earlier in your evidence today. Now, if we go to page 3, I'd just like to look at that second paragraph. And if we go a little bit into the second paragraph, it says: "To Mr. Harris' knowledge, the CBSA did not provide or receive unique intelligence disclosures from or to law enforcement partners prior to the arrival of the convoy in Ottawa..." Mr. Ossowski, from what you just said, it seems to me that you did have a general awareness that the OPP was providing some intelligence information to the CBSA, or you have become aware of that at some point.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. And you know, it's not that I'm questioning Mr. Harris' knowledge as set out in this witness summary, but just from the perspective of the OPP, just want to ensure that the record is accurate with respect to information-sharing in the Intelligence realm. And so for that reason, I'd like us to please pull up, Clerk, OPP4577 if you could. And Mr. Ossowski, this is a distribution list from the OPP's Intelligence Bureau that we'll take a look at together here. And also, for the record, this distribution list is referred to at the OPP's institutional report at page 23. But Mr. Ossowski, we can see here that... If we just scroll up to the top. This says Original Partner Agencies. It's dated 22nd of February 2020. And if we just scroll down to page 3. And I appreciate, Mr. Ossowski, I expect you have not laid eyes on this document before.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Is that correct? Yes. Okay. But if we take a look at page 3, and scroll down. This is a bit of a challenge, but there. We can see at the bottom there, there's Melanie Rose at CBSA. Can you confirm that you see that entry ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- with that CBSA email address.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Do you know who Melanie Rose is?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
No? And if we scroll down a little further to page 5, we'll go about halfway down, again, just seeing -- again, we see a CBSA address. Clerk, I think you can continue. On that page, we will see some additional CBSA addresses. Joshua Newby, for example. Mr. Ossowski, so you confirm that you can see that this distribution list includes some CBSA staff?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And are you familiar with Joshua Newby, just to assist us in understanding his role within the organization?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. One last quick point. Thank you very much, Commissioner. Clerk, if you could pull up PB.CAN.00001535, please? I'd like to take a look at that document. Okay. If you could perhaps reduce it? I believe towards the middle of the document there should be an indication of the role of Josh Newby in this mandate protest incident command structure. Mr. Ossowski, do you see that?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. And so according to this chart, it appears that Josh Newby was executive director in dealing with the mandate protest. Is that what we see here?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Those are all my questions. Thank you, Commissioner, for that additional time. Thank you. Those are all my questions.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Good afternoon, Commissioner. Jinan Kuburski for the Ontario Provincial Police, and I have no questions for this panel. Thank you very much.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Hello, Ms. Thomas. My name is Jinan Kubursi and I’m one of the lawyers representing the Ontario Provincial Police in this hearing. I’d like to start by talking to you a bit about your role and the role of your office, and then some of the relationships and interactions that you have with the “security and intelligence partners”, as you’ve called them. So as stated, I believe, in your witness summary -- and it’s also in the Institutional Report for the Privy Council Office -- you’d agree that you worked with closely with your security and intelligence partners, and that includes CSIS, the RCMP, the PPS, as well as CBSA and Transport Canada; that’s sort of a foundational part of the work that you do?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay, fair enough. It’s listed in the report but not ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. Right, okay. And you also, in your exchange with counsel for the CCF, you talked about always consulting with the lead intelligence agencies that you work with whenever you’re in the process of advising the prime minister about a threat; do you recall saying that just a short while ago?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You know, obviously reflecting your respect for the expertise and the work that those agencies do, which is in their area of specialization.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right, right.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yeah. It’s, of course, a very important part of the consideration. And so I expect that in your role as a consumer of intelligence but not a producer of intelligence or investigations, as we’ve heard earlier today, that there’s a, you know, regular communication that you’re doing with these entities and agencies that have to provide the information that then becomes part of that information flow through your office through to the cabinet and the prime minister, and perhaps others as well?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And I expect that in that working relationship that you have with these partner entities and agencies, that there’s always an opportunity for some conversation about what you need as the NSIA, what they can provide to you; is that ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- a fair expectation? Yeah.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So considering some of what’s been discussed earlier in terms of the scope of what your office is able to do given -- as was raised in the questioning with counsel for Freedom Corp, that you don’t have any legislative framework for your work, I’d like to talk about, you know, the current situation and how you deal with addressing the needs of your role through the entities that exist. So a first example, you’ve spoken about a concern that, it seemed to me, perhaps gave rise to this interest doing more in the way of social media intelligence work, you know. And I take it that, to some extent, the concern is related to potential threats to public figures, the prime minister, others in the cabinet, for example. That’s one area of concern, I take it; is that fair to say?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yes. And so my understanding is that currently if there’s a concern in that regard, that the RCMP has a National Security Criminal Investigations office that would have responsibility for conducting threat assessments, or perhaps doing and investigation if you had a concern that you wanted to have a police agency look at; is that ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Am I correct?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. And in order to provide that day-to-day security for the prime minister, there’s the prime minister’s protective detail, and for others, there is the RCMP Protective Services currently fulfilling that function; correct?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Correct. And so in doing that job, it’s a intrinsic part of their job to continually evaluate risks or threats to the figures that they’re protecting?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right, I appreciate that. And one option that is available now, at this point, to investigate that concern. To take whatever steps might be necessary to address that concern would be to refer that to the RCMP; is that fair?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So I think I’m going to want -- I think what you’re talking about -- oh, okay. It just froze for a moment. I don’t know if I froze for a moment, perhaps, but can you hear me now, Mr. Thomas?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Yeah, sorry about that.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Okay, I’m going to move through this more quickly, then, and then get back to the point that you were making, Ms. Thomas, about, really, the big picture, and your concern about the big picture, you know, in light of the current authorities that exist for offices. So we heard earlier my friend, counsel for the Windsor Police Service, he asked you whether you’re aware of the Project Hendon that was initiated by the OPP, and we know that through these proceedings you’ve become aware of that project.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And, you know, as you can appreciate -- and you spoke to this earlier -- you know, it seems clear to me that you understand that there’s certain information that is held by law enforcement entities with their authorities and protections for information that you understand you’re not able to get directly because you were essentially a civilian office of government, right? Do we agree on that?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So then would you also agree with me then -- and perhaps we -- just to be direct, we’re considering the role of the RCMP in this information chain. If there’s an issue with the kind of information that you're getting from what is an existing project that the OPP’s initiated that then that’s something you could perhaps have a conversation with the RCMP about.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And counsel for the Ottawa Police Service -- he took you through some of -- or with reference to some of the documents regarding the information that was available to government in those days leading up to the convoy. So you recall reviewing that with him just a short while ago?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So you know, I do have a question for you. Were you made aware ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay, we’ll make it the last question. Just on this matter of strategic review, have you had an opportunity -- I’m going to refer to a document, OPP1600, if we could pull it up very quickly, Mr. Clerk, just so that Ms. Thomas can take a look at it. And I don’t expect you have see this before, because it is a Project Hendon Report that was produced on January 13th. You can see it’s entitled “Strategic Intelligence Overview.” So you know, I’ll put it to you, Ms. Thomas, that this overview is an example of the kind of big picture strategic review of intelligence, without reference to individuals, talking about societal movements and how they manifest themselves. So would you agree, seeing this on its face you can perhaps take a look at it on another occasion. But this is the kind of work that you were looking for to assist you in what you were hoping to do in your office.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Given that I’m out of time, we’ll have to end our exchange here. Thank you very much for your time. And have a good evening. And thank you, Commissioner, for allowing me a few extra moments.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Good morning, Commissioner. I have no questions. It’s Jinan Kubursi for the OPP. Thanks.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Good afternoon. Thank you, Commissioner. And good afternoon to you both. My name is Jinan Kubursi and I’m one of the counsel for the OPP. So I have just a few minutes with you today, so I’d like to ask you just a few short questions and briefly deal about your understanding of what was happening in that weekend leading up to the arrival of the convoy in Ottawa. So if you cast your mind back to that time period -- and we have seen some of the documentation but I’d just like to ask you, did you have any awareness at that point that there were some indications that this convoy of truckers which was going to number potentially in the hundreds in terms of vehicles heading towards Ottawa -- were you aware of that basic fact at that point?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
That’s right. That’s right.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And understandably, you had other matters that you were dealing with, of course. So can I take it, as you’re saying, you had some awareness and you have some recollection of hearing that there were going to be a large number of truckers, you know, perhaps not a specific ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Vehicles. Thank you for that correction -- of vehicles including -- it would include some trucks -- were on their way to Ottawa, and did you have any awareness at that time that there was some indication that some members of this protest group, if I call it that, were intending to stay in Ottawa until their demands with respect to vaccine requirements were met?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. But would you agree with me that early information that there was at least a group indicating a commitment to staying in Ottawa until certain demands were met, and early indications that some vehicles including heavy machinery with the trucks that were on the way to Ottawa would all be indications that would be at least informative for you and your colleagues in terms of what you might expect?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yes? Okay. And so we've heard ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yes, please.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right, not your focus and not within your awareness because you're not direct recipients of these reports. They are shared within the law enforcement community. But you'd agree that through your appropriate information channels, including the National Security and Intelligence Advisor, communicating with the RCMP, it's of course, helpful to ensure that the communication channels are working effectively so that you have early information that can assist you in your role and then ultimately, you know, decision making?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
M'hm. Okay.
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. I have one remaining question or two, Commissioner, if you might allow me, in a different area. And ---
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I'll try, Commissioner. Thank you. Your witness summary and some of what we've heard from both of you in your evidence acknowledges certain jurisdictional challenges, if I can put it that way, in that a Public Order Event that is being considered as potentially a Public Order Emergency is one that occurs, you know, in an area that doesn’t engage federal jurisdiction in the sense that it's a situation that the federal government can apply its resources to resolve. And sorry for the long introduction, but would you find it helpful in this -- such a situation if it were ever to present again, but to have -- would it be helpful for you to have a more direct line of communication to certain law enforcement leaders, perhaps, with respect to options, tools, status of the police situation generally, to assist you in being as fully informed as possible?
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Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Thank you both very much. Thank you, Commissioner.