Nathalie Carrier
Nathalie Carrier spoke 236 times across 1 day of testimony.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I wish to affirm.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Nathalie Carrier, N-a-t-h- a-l-i-e C-a-r-r-i-e-r.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I just want to clarify, I will testify in English though. Sorry, sometimes I switch without knowing.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Oui, merci.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I’m Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director of the Vanier BIA, which is the Business Improvement Area.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It covers three main streets, Beechwood, Montreal Road, and MacArthur from roughly the river to Saint-Laurent, with the exception of Beechwood that ends when Havelock begins.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Both Kevin and I sat on daily meetings, and we also sit on the board of COBIA which is the Coalition of BIAs, so we do sometimes get communications from others. I have family and friends that own businesses on Bank Street for example, and some of my businesses on Montreal Road or Beechwood, would own other franchises in others.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Generally aware. I would say intimately aware since January.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
That’s right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
In essence, both parking lots were being used at one point, so both the Hampton Inn one and the one that belongs to the city. They are joined together, but there are two separate parking lots.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It depends who you ask and what's being done. Sometimes we're considered downtown because we have more urban issues that are, you know, homelessness, or you know, drug related issues, things of that sort. But for the case of an event that happens downtown, we would be considered slightly on the outskirts, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was, just by nature of being the closest BIA to them, at one point because things were escalating and there was a lot of complaints being made, I did begin to liaise with a few businesses there.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was the Production Manager for Ottawa 2017, so I did large scale public events like La Machine, Crashed Ice, Kontinuum Underground, and you know pre to LRT being created, Picnic on the Bridge, those kinds of things. I have 20 years experience in events.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would say that be more unofficially and anecdotally, because of the knowledge that I carry with me, there are things that were brought to this table that were flagrant to me based on the knowledge that I have as - - previously, as a large-scale event planner.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct. So things that we saw that would be event-like during the occupation or protests referred to my previous roles.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And my current roles. We do events at the BIA as well.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would say that we received very little information prior to. In fact, it was mostly the BIA in ByWard that started requesting from our councillor. So to be clear, Councillor Fleury has three BIAs within his ward, ByWard, Rideau, and Vanier. And so ByWard and Rideau had started getting increasingly aware of what was happening. We had been speaking with Bank Street and Spark Street as OCOBIA, and they requested from Councillor Fleury to amass stakeholders so that we could better prepare for the weekend ahead. This was the week leading in, obviously, the week of the 27th/28th.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I agree. I think we were looking for the plans that we normally get and receive or are shared with us leading into Canada Day weekend, or Winterlude, or those kinds of things. So in this particular case, we were expecting Canada Day type closures. And in the case of Vanier, that would only pertain to us as it pertains to any overflow traffic that often or sometimes gets directed to Coventry or would end up on Montreal Road or Rideau.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
We requested from the councillor to have a briefing with Services, which we got. And when that briefing happened, we were surprised to see that that was not this posture that OPS and City were taking, meaning the -- you know, the closing down of the streets in the downtown core to accommodate the level of what we were -- I was seeing on social media was heading our way.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
To me, ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- specifically, so ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Ahead of the convoy, it was a protest that was slightly unusual because of the nature of the trucks; right? Normally when we have protests, it’s -- there’s busses that arrive and drop off people and then an event happens and they get back on busses and leave. In this case, the trucks were the protestors in many ways. So there was some level that it was going to be complex because of the trucks. But for the most part, we were told, you know, by the end of the weekend, everything should be good and everyone will likely be gone.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There was a lack of information for something that we deemed and I deemed having done large scale events on that very particular space. You know, La Machine ran from ByWard all the way to the museum and back. There was actually a Saturday night event that was here. We spent two years planning that because of the sheer level of people and the machines themselves were big. This was -- and so there was really no information, in our opinion, or it didn’t seem to be -- it didn’t seem to be taken as seriously as other events.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I think that there was an unpredictability about this event. There was reference to there being multiple organizers. But I don’t think we were given much more. Not to my knowledge, ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- or my recollection.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I feel like at some point all the BIAs there, there were five of us, did. I remember my colleague Kalin from ByWard certainly, you know, making mention to why this wasn’t happening or why couldn’t we block streets like we do often for protestor events, why couldn’t we prevent access to our core. There was no real answer to that.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I remember Chief Sloly saying publicly, and not specifically to our daily briefings, but publicly saying things to the order of “I can’t stop trucks from driving in the City of Ottawa. I can’t stop vehicles from driving in the City of Ottawa,” which was baffling to me personally as an events person, because we had and we do often for events.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It evolved. So in the beginning, it was basically the three BIAs we added in, the three BIAs being Rideau, Byward and Vanier. We added in Bank Street and Sparks. And there was bylaw, traffic, so a series of city services, bylaw, traffic, police, OPS, our NRTs, which is our neighbourhood resource team members, which is a police term for police that are dedicated to specific problematic areas, for lack of a better term, like Byward and Vanier and other areas. And, you know, there was -- I recall -- it was evolving. So depending on the day, depending on what was happening and as the situation was evolving, people would come in and out of these meetings daily based on availability or -- I mean, there's certainly city management services. ACOBIA was there, so Michelle, the executive director of ACOBIA.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I -- yeah, I don't know.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I remember this ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I'm so sorry, go ahead.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Later in -- when the occupation became the occupation and not a protest, the call of roughly 20 people was 70 people at times daily. So there were MPPs, MPs that would join in on those calls. But for the most part, the senior city person in -- to my recollection was Kim Ayotte, who was Emergency Services, so he was the person sort of speaking on behalf of fire, paramedics and obviously police, when police wasn't on the call.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was going to say, oftentimes, the police representatives we had on the call are not people that I would consider senior OPS that I would have seen in other events.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I have a recollection of Chief Sloly joining the first week, so between the first and second weekends, there -- I don't recall what day exactly, but there was one call that he was on with us.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And there was -- and I apologize. I do not remember her name, but I believe she was the deputy who came once or twice on the call as well.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
This is difficult because these are people we work with. These are people that we rely on. I remember being scared personally. I was -- because I remember the Chief saying at one point, "You guys are scared. I get it. I'm scared too." And I thought if the Chief of Police is scared, something much bigger is happening here than a protest, and that personally scared me, and I think a lot of us on that call were shaken. There was also a sense that week that things were starting to get shaken up. You know, there was instability. We -- I sensed a sense of defensiveness, you know. Everyone was caught off guard, I think, everyone. I don't think any of us could have dreamed that this event, that we -- in our biggest thinking would equate to Canada Day, sort of, you know, the infractions that happen, the closures that happen, the people that come in, the disturbances it creates, the loud noise, the fireworks. None of us I think could have understood that that would actually get so much bigger.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No, no. Despite us asking vehemently daily. There was no ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So there -- things that pertain to businesses that are very specific in events like this, or -- and I'm sorry, I keep calling it an event. That's my knowledge. So things like will they have access to loading zones, how can deliveries happen, can staff get in, you know, where will the bus routes be, what -- and because there was so much fluidity to what was happening, there was no sense that the plan today was going to be the next -- the plan the next day. There was -- you know, there was some fluidity to it, but mostly, those are the things we needed to know. Can staff take OC Transpo and get from Vanier to their job at the Rideau Centre? Will the Rideau Centre be safe? You know, those are the things that pertain to businesses. Like, can we have -- can they have deliveries picked up? And can they still do click and collect? And can Uber Eats and Skip the Dishes get through? And to give context to it, though we're five kilometres away in Vanier from the downtown core, Uber Eats was not servicing. They were not servicing. So unlike what could be said to have happened to businesses during COVID, businesses were completely crippled, and that has to be understood by this Commission, because there were no deliveries. There was no loading zone. There was no Uber Eats. There was no clients in the stores. A lot of the protesters that arrived did support businesses and I'm not going to say that they didn't. They supported some businesses, but there was a lot of chaos. There was a lot of businesses that were deeply affected by protesters. And then there was this sense -- there was a lawlessness, if I can speak specifically to restaurants, which are often the most flexible of all of our businesses; right? They adapt very quickly. They can figure out things very quickly. But restaurants often had catering tables organized by protesters right outside their doors offering free hotdogs, free chocolates, free, you know, to everyone. Meanwhile, the business that was trying to stay open and survive was not getting any business.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
M'hm.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Because the businesses were right next door to the encampment. So to put it in context, there is a hotel, a parking lot for the hotel, a parking lot for the stadium, the stadium, and then there is a Canadian Tire, Best Buy, and a Starbucks that are right there. There is also, just at the corner of Lola, there is a veterinarian and emergency hospital for animals, and also, one of our organisations that we liaise with a lot, the Minwaashin Lodge, was there as well. So there is organisations that are racialized that are in and around that area, so in my expertise as being a business relations person, I started just checking in on them to see if they were okay.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Usually once a weekend. The weekends were definitely the worst. But Canadian Tire, we - - I must've spoken to them five or six times, different people at each time. Sometimes it was the person, the customer service person; sometimes it a manager on duty or another. The Starbucks, I would be going in to get a coffee, because I spent a lot of time at Coventry, and anecdotally I would ask questions and spoke to the manager once, I think.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right. So in the beginning, it was, you know, they were selling a lot of stuff. They were selling gas tanks, and they were selling rope, and you know, all the type of things that I think you would buy if you were camping out. And they also reported that large groups of protestors, you know, by large I probably mean 3 to 10, would come in at once and then do the sort of thing that was, you know, that is now sort of cliché, but would go up to the workers with masks on and say, "Why are you wearing a mask? Why are you doing this?" They would disrupt the sort of general, you know, the store, they would disrupt the store. And there was also evidence or not evidence, sorry, there was things that were relayed to me that they -- the protestors had been putting up posters throughout the store that looked like public health posters, but saying things like, "masks are stupid, or masks aren't needed", or you know, so counterintuitive sort of things that staff... Nothing, you know, violent, but definitely disruptive. The most terrifying call I had was on the last -- the third weekend, where the manager was talking to me, and he said, "You know, Nathalie, I don't know if this is something but I feel like I should tell you. We've sold out of knives and bear spray this weekend." And that is something that I reported immediately to OPS.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Just disruptions. You know, there's a lot of LGBT people that work in OPS and, sorry, in Starbucks, and OPS as well, I'm sure, and that -- sorry. But you know, there was a general feeling of annoyance, you know, it was an annoying thing. It was, you know, it was fine, but it wasn't, you know, the pleasant sort of... You know, there was some -- some protestors were perfectly pleasant and lovely, you know, that should be said. They're not all homogenous; right? But there were definitely the ones that would make comments about why they'd be wearing a mask in a window, and the door would be -- you know, "the window's open, you don't need a mask", those types of things. And again, I think we have to put this back into context of the first weekend being our stores were still closed. You couldn't go into a restaurant that first weekend; that was reopening on the 31st. So the -- you know, the feeling that we have about masks today, really has to be brought back to how weird that felt then.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Several times, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I sure did.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I believe -- I'm going to say it's Sunday night of the first weekend. Sorry, this is very embarrassing. It has to be said. [END VIDEO PLAYBACK]
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct, on the Sunday night. And again, it has to be put in context. The reason I took this video was to share with my colleague at OPS because that day we had been told that, you know, now we're going to move towards egress, but I was trying to demonstrate there is no sign of egress at Coventry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
The person that was on our calls with us during -- at those daily meetings, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Well, two things. So this video, to put it in context, is next to the stadium, so on, you know, depending on what map you're looking at, not on the hotel side but on the other side. What I had observed during that weekend, and it increased during the week, and certainly on the second weekend, was the sense of directing their own traffic, of allowing certain trucks in, or, you know, people in or not. So there was a sense of security that was -- security system of some sort that was building up. I observed large scale tents that, again, from an event planner perspective, signified to me, you know, organization, and places to work, and places to make food. I saw food being brought in. I saw deliveries being made. This is over the course of the four weeks. And I sawt hat encampment grow from an overflow parking to an encampment, a very solid, very organized, Blues Fest large scale event style, “We’re here for a long time and we have the infrastructure to stay.”
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
That’s the same night. The other side of the parking lot. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] Again, terribly embarrassing. Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Everybody hates their own voice; right? Sorry. I just had to say that out loud. I’m nervous.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I am somebody that is very savvy with social media. To me personally, it was clear that the 70-kilometre train of trucks that crossed the country was not coming in for a small protest in a day. And to me, that Sunday night was the proof that, you know, somebody somewhere had underestimated or not listened to the anger, frustration, that a large, at that point, you know, large number of people felt. They were coming to the City of Ottawa as the representatives of what they thought and they were going to stay there. They were going to stay there until they were heard.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I believe that’s the second weekend.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And what you see in that video are things that, again, as an event planner, I took because it drove me crazy, because there was a propane tank next to diesel with, like, wooden pallets packed right next to it, which no -- I mean, an event would be, A, not even allowed to operate, second, would be shut down and police trucks would be there, bylaw would be there, and as an event planner, I would be fined. And there was no fining. I saw tents that normally, again, as an event planner, both in my BIA role, but also previously, you need permits to put up tents like that in the City of Ottawa. You pay a permit, an inspector has to come, there has to be an engineer evaluation. To my knowledge, none of that had been done at Coventry. So I essentially had a festival happening in my community that was neither sanctioned, or was it protected by the normal standards that the City of Ottawa would adhere to. And in the city, there’s a thing called the SEAT Program, which is Special Events Activation Team, and any event that goes through the City of Ottawa must go through the very, very stringent process of being evaluated by that, and none of it had been done. I witnessed downtown stages on, you know, the back of a truck, you know, wooden things made, wooden things with diesel being poured on to them. Like, just things that were, in my 30-years experience, absolutely baffling, and quite frankly, you know, dangerous.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yeah.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yeah, I have a video that I submitted when I was driving to see one of my staff, and I was coming back towards -- on Nicholas between DND and University of Ottawa, and I was taking the video to demonstrate that there was lawlessness. Like, there were trucks parked on sides of roads and in the middle. This is an onramp to a major highway. And as I was driving past, I saw somebody, out of their thing, dump a chemical toilet. And I caught it by accident on to ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right outside DND.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I think some were, and I think a lot weren’t.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There’s another video that I submitted where, at Coventry, there -- I don’t know this for a fact, but I deduced that there was sort of a shift change that would happen. There would be a series of trucks that would leave in the morning, and some would come back. And they would sort of do this convoy style, obviously. They’re a convoy. So but on several occasions, I would be trying to sort of leave that parking lot, and there would be 50, 60, 100 trucks all in a row not respecting traffic, not respecting traffic lights, and sort of operating as a parade. But again, in the City of Ottawa, when you do a parade, you have to have a police escort, there are certain laws, it’s announced ahead of time what you’re -- you know, your trajet, sorry, I don’t know what that word in English is.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Route. Merci. And, you know, so again, these were things that would happen. I saw convoys of trucks -- sorry, like farm tractors driving down Vanier Parkway, which is not even a trucking route. You’re not even allowed a truck on Vanier Parkway normally. Like, none of our businesses could get a truck to drive down Vanier Parkway to come give them a delivery, and yet, you know, we’re seeing these types of things. So I saw a lot of that.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It was said though -- sorry, I have to say, it was said that if fines were given out, they would be given out to the business, ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- not to the people. So that’s, again, another deterrent to keeping your business open, because if you can’t control or have security there at your own expense, which ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- most of these stores didn’t have at that point. Again, we’re coming off of a two- year, you know, covid, and then we all got caught off guard right before Christmas that we were shut down again. So a lot of these businesses had no money for security or anything. So they thought, “Well, if I can’t police it, I’m going to get a fine. It’s not worth it.” So they would close.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was just going to say it should also be noted that the Rideau Centre in its history and in the history of Cadillac Fairview had never closed for a day, and even when the stores are closed the Rideau Centre is the walkthrough for transit, so it’s always open 24/7, you can go to the washroom there, you can go warm up in there. It closed and that cost them $2 million a day and they were closed for three - - three weekends, the worst of which would be Valentines Day and Canada -- and Family Day. And I think for businesses, we have to state how important that is. I have a business, Quelque Chose Patisserie, they have their bakery and -- sorry, I’m going quickly -- their bakery in Vanier they also have two other franchises, now three, but because -- and they had trouble at the Byward one so they closed down, but that affected the bakery and it affected also Westboro, because their Westboro location people were told to stay home, so they didn’t have it. So again, that is -- that losing -- for that bakery to lose Valentines Day and Family Day weekend carries them through the first quarter. Those two days it was said to me yesterday by that business owner, that carries them through January, February, and March. And again, that’s a normal January, February, March, not one where you were shut down at Christmas, not one where you’ve been shut down for two years. So it was devastating.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No, you can go. I’ve been going first, so you go.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I have two things I would add. One, just to say to that, I have friends who, you know, decided that they would have this beautiful Ottawa staycation David summer, and they go, and they bike, you know, and they go to the market, and then there sitting out in the market at the end of this really amazing day, and then all of a sudden this protest comes up and people start yelling and screaming, and so this was months afterwards. So to Kevin's point, it's still happening now, there's still disruption to businesses. The second point I'd like to make in closing is that, and I don't know this has been tackled, but Vanier is the most diverse BIA of all the BIAs in Ottawa and we have the highest level of racialized people within -- or racialized business owners. So MacArthur specifically is the street which is the closest street to the convoy, a street that is very multicultural and has a lot of, you know, a lot of specific cultural groceterias, restaurants, those types of things. Anecdotally, there was a lot of -- it was very difficult for some of those business owners, and though they may or may not have closed, the sense -- and I think, you know, the speakers this morning sort of talked to that, there was a sense of like, foreboding in the city. There was this intense feeling, and specifically, one of our organizations that we worked quickly with was targeted, or not targeted, was intimidated to a certain extent by having men standing outside their windows looking in, again, comments being made, and this is a shelter for Indigenous women and children. So you know, it has to be said that the damage done, I think was somewhat disproportionate to those in our city that are equity seeking and equity deserving, especially our small businesses.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you for that clarification.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I Was trying to fake it till I made it on that one.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I don't have that knowledge. I know a lot of my businesses took advantage of it.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Okay. I ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I’m not sure ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Then I would say there are likely times Uber eats was operating and other times on the weekends which I think our businesses would deem to be the most busy times, where a lot of them weren’t. There was a lack of drivers. I know that was a major issue, and then because of the closures, you know, there is zero access for it. So whether the app was open or not, I'm not aware, but I can tell you that many of our restaurants in Vanier and others could not use that service ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- as a method to sell their food.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And for -- sorry -- further to that, some would make the orders and they wouldn't be picked up, so there was an additional loss.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I did not use Uber Eats in that time, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes, she is the MP that represents Vanier, so I do, yeah.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I did not, no. That was not my request. That may have been my colleague in the market, but it was not me.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
In some there were, not in those particular videos, but at times there was honking. There wasn’t as much honking at Coventry, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Roughly 6:00 p.m.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Well, the first weekend that was roughly 6:00 p.m., on the second weekend it was 9:00 a.m. in the morning.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So it depends. I was there different times.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There was honking, yes. There was definitely honking. There was some loud noises. Whether they were a loud as downtown, no they were not.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
But there was definitely honking and depending at times too. Also, yeah. No, there was not.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was not aware of the email, but I do know that Steve Ball from the Hotel Association was on many of our calls, especially in the third and fourth weekend, near the tail end of them, and he did make that aware to us. He also pointed out to the fact that there was a lot of hotels that couldn't be accounted for because they would be booked through third party.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So the hotels.coms or things like that.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It appears to me that they should have known that, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It was urine.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
The date is on the video. I believe it was the second weekend, possibly the third weekend. I'm sorry, it's on the video, but ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It wasn't on at the beginning, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I am not aware of that, no. But I'm happy to hear that at some point something was permitted, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
The Canadian Tire, yes. That's what ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- it was told to me.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Most of the people I know that hunt with knives don't wave them around.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So they would be concealed perhaps, but I don't -- I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think waving around a knife states whether or not the knife exists.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Did I see the knives being waved around? No, I did not.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Do I trust that the Canadian Tire was telling me the truth? Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was not in the heat of it on the last weekend, if that's what you're implying, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I had none, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I suppose that would be fair, yes. I mean, I suppose we could probably cross-reference credit cards at some point and figure that out, but I don't think that that is the case.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Well, I don't know.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Likely. Way above my pay grade, sir.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I did.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
M’hm.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would agree that that’s the information that was made to all public, yeah.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry, the second last bullet? Or the ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Okay.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes, I do remember that.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes, I remember that, but that’s not a lot of people normally. So again, that doesn’t -- I just want to state, because I think it’s important to state the context. Three thousand (3,000) people on Parliament Hill is not a lot of people. Like, when you look at what the numbers are on Canada Day. So again, it doesn’t point to something that I would look at that and go, “Oh, wow. Three thousand (3,000) people. We’re going to be, you know, in this ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- for the long run.” So 3,000 people is not a ton of protestors, no.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct. And again, this wasn’t to BIAs. This was to the public.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Ms. ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So that’s actually a very good question, because our NRTs in Vanier were pulled from us and taken downtown. So I was not in communication with my own normal OPS people with who I transige. I don’t know what that word is in English, but that I work with every single day. I was in liaison with the community officer for the ByWard, who was now doing five BIAs.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
But that -- just so we’re clear, that’s not the constable I would normally deal with.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Mine were taken away.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes. So there was a sense that it -- he didn’t necessarily have the -- I don’t know how to explain it, but he’s not a senior level executive of the Ottawa Police Force.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would agree with what Kevin said, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
In the beginning, not so much, but near the end, definitely more.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No. Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
M’hm.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would agree with that.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I only recall one.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I have not.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
To my knowledge, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yeah.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
To the Commission?
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Like I've said it several times, yes, but not to -- perhaps I didn't say it the day of the Commission interview.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I think he said -- I think it was definitely in the intention that you were saying. I don't think that he was, like, I'm terrified and I don't know what I'm doing. That's not what I'm implying. What I'm implying is that he was very candid with us. You know, we had gone through a very difficult weekend. He was very candid with us. And he, I think, was relating that he too was scared. There are things that were happening that -- you know, there was a lot going on.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I have said that several times previously, but not to the Commission.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
To my recollection, I don't recall. I believe it was the Tuesday after the 1st.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So the 1st or 2nd of February, I would assume.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
He described a very fluid moving protest, an occupation. He described what he had said a lot in the press conference, that there were lack of resources, that this was something that was evolving by the minute, that this was unprecedented. I want to say I have tremendous respect at that time for Chief Sloly, and I believe -- you know, I don't know what his intentions were, but I believe in that moment, it was fluid.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Okay.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I would concede too that that was the intention, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I think that was one of the issues.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry, when I consider congestion, I consider that a fluid moving traffic of congestion. This was not a fluid moving traffic of congestion. This was blockaded.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
This was -- these were cars that were parked that weren't moving. These were loading zones. These were handicapped parking that were being blocked for hours and days on end, well beyond the normal ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Okay.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Definitely.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Typically, yes, very well.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There wasn't the usual level that we would be accustomed to in the circumstance like this.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I will be honest and tell you that this was not a problem that was specific to Vanier, but on behalf of my colleagues and BIAs that are central, we were not satisfied with the level to which ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- those types of things were being dealt with.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I do.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Absolutely not.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And I can tell you, I just ran an event where there was two people serving food, local businesses, and they were more enforced ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- than anything I saw then.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I do remember that statement being made by my colleague.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Some I think did well, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No, they did not? I don't know. I -- I'm not the best person to answer that question, but sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I did.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
During the occupation, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I believe that specific TikTok Live was Pat King TikToking Live, so broadcasting live from his car, stating that he and other vehicles were leaving Coventry and on our way to the airport to disrupt the airport as well.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It looks like, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct, yes, I did.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There was a lot that I sent, but I believe in this particular one was references to diesel cans being filled with water and not diesel to confuse police officers. And there -- and I don't recall the rest.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I apologise. I did not review this particular slide.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Yes, although you can save copies of -- you can record your screen on your phone. So ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So often TikTok lives will be rebroadcast as non-live events.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
That's correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
To be clear, I am not a TikTok expert, I'm just a hockey mom that watches way too much TikTok. But my knowledge is -- and certainly during this period. To my knowledge, the person can take their video and rebroadcast it, but also if I am watching your TikTok, I can record my screen and then share a version of that. So there are times after this where there were TikTok's that I recorded parts of the screen for my own posterity to remember.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I wouldn't say a large volume that I sent on to them, but I would certainly report back to them, and Sebastien, and in the daily meetings there were things that I would report from what I had seen the night before.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I was not in that situation.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
This particular one, I believe is the -- oh, yes. This particular email is not the bear spray email.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Right.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Oh, yes. Yes, I was asked about this earlier. So I would report back on some of the things that I would hear from the manager.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I do.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
This was on the first weekend or, like, around the first and second weekend, yes.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
And this was from my community association with who we work very closely.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I reported it to the police, correct. There was a sense at times that BIAs were sort of in a position to have the ear of people, so there -- oftentimes our community associations will rely on us for those types of things.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Thank you.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Good afternoon.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Oh, my god. My husband told me this was going to happen, and I said no. Sorry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
So it's slightly northeast five kilometres from downtown Ottawa.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
But it is joined -- so you can loop from -- normally, you can loop from Beechwood to St. Patrick's to King Edward or Dalhousie and then back from Rideau, that turns into Montreal Road and so forth so.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I believe -- in the beginning ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
--- there was no red zone in Vanier. I think it ended at the river.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There was no red zone in Vanier, despite me stating that there was more happening at Coventry.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
But the red zone was not - - Vanier was not in the red zone.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
It was, to my knowledge, I think, SJAM, so Sir John A Macdonald Parkway to I think it was Bank, Catherine, and then down towards the market.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct. Well, it would have been at that point, like, at the edge of the red zone, maybe two or three kilometres ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
There were moments that it was very loud there and other times that it wasn't. There was a sense that that was their recovery area as well. There -- you know, that's where the hot tubs got delivered on the second weekend. There was, you know, food and there was a very jovial sort of atmosphere at times and other times a very tense atmosphere there. So there was, you know, daytime you'd see a lot of families, they were heading downtown, and then in the evenings, things would seem a bit more ---
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Depends on the -- there tension days; right? There were days that were -- it's a long period. Some days were different.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Correct.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
As I said earlier, there - - it felt like there was, like, almost shifts that were running. You know, people that would either bring stuff downtown, and then come back. There was a sense of, like, you know, almost, like, a base camp where sandwiches were being made and then shipped to downtown, and then, you know, there was -- I saw myself lots of jerry cans being filled with gas in very unsecure -- certainly not legal by normal standards ways, you know, off the back of a pickup truck in a big oil barrel, in -- or, you know, cisterns or things like that on the ground in Coventry parking lot.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
One, most tents used in events have to be fire retardant. So if you're going to cook within a tent, it has to have a fire retardant fabric, so that if anything happens, it won't -- you know, it won't cause a huge fire. There's also levels of pressure, so often big tents need to be anchored either into -- with spikes into ground or they have to be held back by big concrete slabs. And often, an engineer has to determine, you know, how much concrete needs to hold it if the wind takes it or -- so there's lots of different regulations around building and to build it is high, so you would need fall safety to put some of those tents up, depending on, you know, how high your pole is. Anything over six feet that you climb on a ladder you need a fall safety training, for example. So there's lots of just little things like that, I mean, that people likely do in their farms or anywhere most times, but not usually as part of a big public event in the middle of the nation's capital.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
No, I think it's all about public safety; right? It's about public safety and standards of operation that are based on years and years of the city, you know -- Ottawa's often called the festival city. We host -- you know, I think there's 120 festivals in the summer here in Ottawa, so there's a lot of -- you know, it's really about public safety.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
I mean, I think because at -- you know, because at times like this, in what was considered, for us at least, a crisis, for a lot of people in Ottawa a crisis, you turn to your leaders to have a plan and to be stable. And I remember very specifically feeling, and I will say feeling for the sake of, you know, this audience, feeling like there was a sense that maybe our leaders were a little shaken. And that's scary.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
That's fine.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Merci beaucoup.
-
Nathalie Carrier, Executive Director (Vanier BIA)
Oui. Ah oui? C'est bien. Moi aussi, ma famille ---