Nikolas De Stefano

Title
Counsel
Organization / Affiliation
Peter Sloly

Nikolas De Stefano spoke 77 times across 6 days of testimony.

  1. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Bonjour, Monsieur Charland, Monsieur le commissaire. Je m’appelle Nikolas De Stefano. Je suis avocat pour l’ancien chef de police, Monsieur Sloly.

    14-223-28

  2. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    J’ai juste quelques questions pour… quelques petites questions pour vous. Vous avez témoigné que vous avez beaucoup d’expérience avec des mouvements de protestation, donc pouvez- vous me dire ça fait combien de temps que vous êtes impliqué dans ces sortes de mouvements là?

    14-224-05

  3. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait.

    14-224-14

  4. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc, vous avez participé à plusieurs manifestations dans votre vie?

    14-224-17

  5. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    En tant que membre du groupe La Meute auparavant?

    14-224-20

  6. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Et ensuite, d’autres manifestations avec les Farfadaas?

    14-224-23

  7. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Vous avez participé à des manifestations en lien avec des mesures sanitaires par le passé?

    14-224-26

  8. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Avant le Convoi de la liberté.

    14-225-01

  9. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Et quand vous êtes arrivé à Gatineau le 29 janvier, serait-il exact de dire que vous avez remarqué qu’il y avait une atmosphère ou un niveau de support différent qu’avec les autres manifestations auxquelles vous avez pris part?

    14-225-04

  10. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Je vais poser la question de manière différente. Je voulais juste dire l’ampleur de la manifestation était plus grande que les autres manifestations auxquelles vous avez fait partie?

    14-225-13

  11. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    C’est du jamais vu pour vous?

    14-225-19

  12. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Non, vous êtes d’accord avec moi que c’est du jamais vu?

    14-225-22

  13. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait. Merci. Vous avez même témoigné avant que vous étiez… je l’ai pas noté de manière exacte là, donc vous me corrigerez si je n’ai pas bien noté, mais que vous aviez été surpris du support que votre groupe avait quand vous vous dirigiez vers Ottawa.

    14-225-25

  14. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc, vous serez d’accord avec moi que vous-même ne vous attendiez pas à avoir autant de support, autant de gens, autant de ressources en date du 29 janvier?

    14-226-08

  15. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Quand vous êtes arrivé à Gatineau, vous avez négocié avec la GRC pour passer à Ottawa, vous avez dit ça là. Vous êtes d’accord?

    14-226-13

  16. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Vous avez discuté également avec le Service de police de la Ville de Gatineau qui vous ont instruit de parler à la GRC. Avez-vous négocié avec eux en anglais ou en français?

    14-226-17

  17. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Mais vous parlez un peu anglais, si je ne m’abuse?

    14-226-22

  18. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Je comprends. Quand vous avez négocié avec les membres de la GRC, vous leur aviez indiqué que vous vouliez vous rendre à Ottawa pour manifester de manière pacifique.

    14-226-27

  19. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Et une fois à Ottawa, vous avez… est-ce que vous avez été témoin de débordements de la part de manifestants, pas nécessairement des membres des Farfadaas, mais juste des manifestants?

    14-227-04

  20. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Non?

    14-227-09

  21. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc, aucun manque de respect envers les gens d’Ottawa?

    14-227-13

  22. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Aucune intimidation?

    14-227-16

  23. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Monsieur le greffier, est- ce qu’on pourrait avoir le document PB NSC CAN, six fois le numéro zéro, 89.

    14-227-18

  24. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    PB NSC CAN, six zeros 89. And can we zoom in on that screenshot of the Facebook post, please? Donc ça c’est un document qui a été produit par la GRC, circulé à des services de police. On voit ici un extrait d’une publication Facebook. Can we scroll up a little bit, please? Just so that I can see the text above the Facebook post, sorry. Malheureusement, la personne qui a écrit… le nom de la personne qui a écrit cette publication-là a été caviardée, mais c’est une publication qui s’adresse aux membres des Farfadaas. Est-ce qu’on le descendre un peu s’il vous plait ? Je veux juste lire un extrait. L’auteur… premièrement, avez-vous déjà vu cette publication-là ?

    14-227-23

  25. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    C’est vous qui l’avez écrit, OK.

    14-228-10

  26. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc, vous indiquez : « Il y a une seule autorité utile chez les Farfadaas. Le respect. »

    14-228-13

  27. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    « Je sais que je n’ai pas été un exemple dernièrement, mais je m’excuse. » Donc quand vous écrivez que vous n’avez pas été un exemple de respect dernièrement, est-ce que c’est en lien avec les démonstrations, ou les… oui, les démonstrations à Ottawa ?

    14-228-16

  28. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    OK, parfait. Donc, on a entendu plusieurs témoignages ici, qu’il y avait des comportements irrespectueux, de l’intimidation et même de la violence, et vous dites, vous n’êtes pas d’accord avec aucun de ces témoignages-là ?

    14-228-23

  29. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait. Eum…

    14-229-01

  30. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait. Deux ou trois autres petites questions. Vous avez témoigné auparavant, je n’ai pas l’annotation exacte, mais que vous n’avez pas le contrôle sur les Farfadaas au complet. Parce que c’est plus un mouvement qu’un groupe.

    14-229-04

  31. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait.

    14-229-10

  32. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc vous seriez d’accord avec moi pour dire que les Farfadaas ne parlent (l'audio coupe) d’une seule voix.

    14-229-15

  33. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Oui.

    14-229-20

  34. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Donc, il serait impossible pour un membre d’un service policier de négocier, par exemple avec vous, pour le groupe ou le mouvement au complet.

    14-229-22

  35. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Vous essayez, mais il serait possible pour vous de faire un accord avec la police, exemple, au nom de tous les Farfadaas de quitter un stationnement ou de quitter la ville d’Ottawa.

    14-229-27

  36. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Et tous, et chaque membre des Farfadaas a suivi votre… vos instructions ?

    14-230-04

  37. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Parfait, merci.

    14-230-10

  38. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    We'll have five minutes.

    16-149-25

  39. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    I'm Nikolas De Stefano for former Chief Sloly. Hi, Mr. Dichter.

    16-150-05

  40. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    So we heard a lot about how you were part of a group, corporation that represented sort of certain protesters; correct?

    16-150-08

  41. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    But there were also other groups that were present in Ottawa protesting; correct?

    16-150-12

  42. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Yeah. And you stated earlier that there were more protesters than you expected there would be?

    16-150-16

  43. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. The events were just on a scale that you, yourself, and sort of members of your group just did not expect; correct?

    16-150-21

  44. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And within your group, you testified that you sort of had people at the Sheraton that were responsible for messaging, some of you were at the Arc Hotel responsible for logistics, and others were at the Swiss Hotel sort of speaking with the police and dealing with the police; correct?

    16-150-25

  45. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Did you, yourself, interact with any of the PLT members from the OPS?

    16-151-04

  46. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Can you remind me who from your group was responsible for that?

    16-151-07

  47. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    So we heard some evidence that Mr. Marazzo had been in contact with the PLT at -- -

    16-151-28

  48. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    You didn’t know about that at the time?

    16-152-04

  49. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And you would have had no input into any of those discussions?

    16-152-07

  50. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. And we also heard from you that when Marazzo or -- sorry, we heard from you that when members of your group did indeed reach an agreement, or purport to reach and agreement about the movement of trucks, that you did not agree with the outcome of that agreement; correct?

    16-152-11

  51. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. And I’m not going to put the text message back up on the screen but ---

    16-152-24

  52. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    --- we saw a text message earlier where you referred to thousands -- thousands of protesters scolding you about the purported agreement.

    16-152-27

  53. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And on February 6th, you gave a press conference and you’ve mentioned -- there’s a transcription of this. I’m not going to put it up on the screen but ---

    16-153-12

  54. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    But you mentioned that in Ottawa there were certain rabblerousers who were trying to make this about them and they were sort of outside of your group and outside of your entourage; do you remember that?

    16-153-17

  55. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And you’ve stated that you couldn’t police those people; and you agree with that still?

    16-153-26

  56. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    But you agree that members of the protest that weren’t part of your entourage were sort of independent operators, they were sort of free thinkers and you couldn’t force them to do something that they wouldn’t do, right? Like, for example, your aware that Pat King was asked not to come to Ottawa at a certain point and then he did indeed come, right? You couldn’t force them to do something they didn’t want to do?

    16-154-10

  57. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Just one last question, Mr. Commissioner. And so you would agree with me, then, that even if your group was able to make some sort of agreement with the police, and that there was some sort buy-in to that agreement, and that it was mobilized, whether it be to stop honking or to move trucks somewhere, some of those rabblerousers could have moved in an parked their trucks in the exact same spot that they were moved out of or just simply not abided by it because you had no control over them?

    16-154-26

  58. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    That’s it, thanks.

    16-155-19

  59. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Nikolas De Stefano for former Chief Sloly. We have no questions. Thanks.

    19-202-27

  60. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. We have no questions for this witness.

    19-294-24

  61. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Good afternoon. I just have a couple of questions for Mr. Keenan. So you testified earlier that the Ministry became aware of the convoy heading to -- oh, sorry, I have to introduce myself. I'm Nikolas De Stefano for former Chief Sloly. You testified earlier that you became aware of the convoy directing itself towards -- your Ministry became aware of the convoy directing itself towards Ottawa in mid January or around the week of January 20th; correct?

    24-252-05

  62. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And they were tracking open source media and social media and stuff like that?

    24-252-17

  63. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. And around January 28th, engaging with DMOC about possible enforcement tools and enforcement methods?

    24-252-21

  64. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. So in any event, at that point they weren't working on the sort of strategy that they began working on on February 3rd, but something like the strategic enforcement strategy wouldn't have been contemplated at that point; correct?

    24-253-01

  65. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. And it would be fair to say, then, that the reason why a strategy like that wasn't contemplated at the time is that just sort of from the available information that the Ministry had, it just didn't seem like it would be necessary at that point?

    24-253-10

  66. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Right. And the types of things that you saw were that fines were ineffective, protesters weren't responding to the fines; correct? Or that you were briefed on?

    24-253-20

  67. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And that it was impossible for the service to obtain tow trucks?

    24-253-25

  68. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And so you sort took those -- went away from that meeting and considered those difficulties and you spent I think 10 days, about, discussing with partners about how you could come up with solutions to those issues; correct?

    24-253-28

  69. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And ultimately, around the 13th, there was still no sort of easy solution from the point of view of the Ministry of how tow trucks could be obtained for police services; correct?

    24-254-06

  70. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    So fair to say very difficult for the Ministry, it would have been very difficult for a police service and for a police chief as well to resolve that issue?

    24-254-15

  71. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And then just a couple of quick questions about the strategic enforcement strategy. I'm not going to pull it up, but ultimately what you had landed on on the 13th was that the strategy had to implicate, of course police, but provincial transport authorities, provincial Solicitors General and attorneys general, federal governments and provincial governments and municipal governments; correct?

    24-254-27

  72. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    And I believe that one of the first lines of the strategy was that given the complexity of ongoing multi-day occupations plus blockades safe resolution requires three levels of government? Do you agree with that?

    24-255-07

  73. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Because you understood that given the complexity and the nature of the challenges that local police forces were facing they were not going to be in a position to resolve situations like what we saw in Ottawa by themselves?

    24-255-12

  74. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Okay. Those are my questions. Thank you.

    24-255-25

  75. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. Nikolas De Stefano for former Chief Sloly. We have no questions.

    26-081-07

  76. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. It's Nikolas De Stefano for former Chief Sloly. We have no questions.

    26-292-20

  77. Nikolas De Stefano, Counsel (Peter Sloly)

    Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. Nikolas De Stefano for Chief Sloly. We have ceded our time to the Government of Canada.

    29-281-12