Volume 18 (November 7, 2022)
Volume 18 has 292 pages of testimony. 21 people spoke before the Commission, including 2 witnesses.
Very important disclaimer: testimony from this site should not be taken as authoritative; check the relevant public hearing for verbatim quotes and consult the associated transcript for the original written text. For convenience, testimony includes links directly to the relevant page (where a speaker started a given intervention) in the original PDF transcripts.
The testimony below is converted from the PDF of the original transcript, prepared by Sandrine Martineau-Lupien.
Speakers, by number of times they spoke:
- Drew Dilkens, Mayor - City of Windsor (Win) (spoke 504 times)
- Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief - Windsor Police Service / City of Windsor (Win-WPS) (spoke 456 times)
- Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 283 times)
- Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel - Democracy Fund / Citizens for Freedom / Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms Coalition (DF / CfF / JCCF) (spoke 145 times)
- Eric Brousseau, Counsel - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 125 times)
- Tom Curry, Counsel - Peter Sloly (spoke 78 times)
- Paul Rouleau, Commissioner - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 65 times)
- Guillaume Sirois, Counsel - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 62 times)
- David Migicovsky, Counsel - Ottawa Police Service / City of Ottawa (Ott-OPS) (spoke 54 times)
- Jinan Kubursi, Counsel - Ontario Provincial Police / Government of Ontario (ON-OPP) (spoke 49 times)
- Andrew Gibbs, Counsel - Government of Canada (GC) (spoke 47 times)
- David Shiroky, Counsel - Government of Canada (GC) (spoke 45 times)
- Anne Tardif, Counsel - City of Ottawa (Ott) (spoke 33 times)
- Brendan Miller, Counsel - Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers (spoke 32 times)
- Jennifer L. King, Counsel - City of Windsor (Win) (spoke 24 times)
- The Registrar - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 13 times)
- Thomas McRae, Counsel - Windsor Police Service / City of Windsor (Win-WPS) (spoke 12 times)
- Stephanie Bowes, Counsel - Government of Alberta (AB) (spoke 7 times)
- Lauren Pearce, Counsel - National Police Federation (spoke 3 times)
- Christine Johnson, Counsel - Ottawa Coalition of Residents and Businesses (spoke 2 times)
- The Clerk - Public Order Emergency Commission (POEC) (spoke 2 times)
Upon commencing on Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:30 a.m.
The Registrar (POEC)
Order. À l’ordre. The Public Order Emergency Commission is now in session. La Commission sur l’état d’urgence est maintenant ouverte.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Good morning. Bonjour. I see we have a different patch this morning. We’re moving geographically, or figuratively, I guess, to the different area of Ontario. Okay. And who is Commission Counsel this morning? (SHORT PAUSE)
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Good morning, Commissioner.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Good morning.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
The Commission would like to call Mayor Drew Dilkens.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
And if you could identify yourself for the ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Natalia Rodriguez, Commission Counsel.
The Registrar (POEC)
For the record, please state your full name and spell it out.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Drew Dilkens, D-r-e-w; D-i- l-k-e-n-s.
MAYOR DREW DILKINS, Sworn
The Registrar (POEC)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Welcome.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, go ahead.
EXAMINATION IN-CHIEF BY MS. NATALIA RODRIGUEZ
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Good morning, Mayor Dilkens. How are you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Good morning. I’m well, thank you.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Good. Nice to see you again.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You as well.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
You had an interview with Commission Counsel on September 2nd of this year; you recall that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And we had an interview summary that was made as a result of that interview; do you recall that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes. And you’ve had a chance to review that summary?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And do you have any corrections to make to that summary at this time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Just a slight correction as it relates to the statement regarding the CBSA and the offer for tow trucks.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So let’s pull that up. It’s WTS00000019. And I believe you’re referring to evidence that was on page 5, so we’ll go to page 5 of that. (SHORT PAUSE)
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And it’s the paragraph that says, “Towing Resources” right there?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So what is it that you would like to change with respect to that paragraph?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So the correction should be that CBSA did not offer tow trucks to the Windsor Police Service or the City. The CBSA offered to help clear the drivers and tow trucks that may be available from the United States. So it wasn’t that the CBSA had tow trucks themselves that was offered.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So they were facilitating the movement of tow trucks and drivers over the border, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, perfect. We’ll make that correction. Thank you. And we’ll have that witness summary entered into evidence. You also swore an affidavit attaching two Institution Reports from the City of Windsor.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And we’re going to bring -- well, first of all, we’ll bring the affidavit up; it’s AFF00000013. (SHORT PAUSE)
The Clerk (POEC)
Apologies, Counsel; is there a prefix to that number?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
AFF00000013. (SHORT PAUSE)
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can scroll down a little bit? Do you recognize this as your affidavit?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, great. And we’ll go to the two Institution Reports, then. WIN.IR00000001. (SHORT PAUSE)
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can go down a little bit? Okay. And you recognize this as the Institution Report for the City of Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Do you have any corrections to make to this Institution Report?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would just make one correction as it relates to -- and this is probably not material but for the interest of being correct, there’s a mention int here that the City was formed in 1935, and it mentions an Amalgamation Act. Windsor actually received city status in 1892.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So Windsor has been a city since 1892 but it was amalgamated in 1935.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. We’ll make that correction, and it will be entered into evidence. And then if we can just have the second Institution Report, WIN.IR00000002? And this, I believe, is a timeline of key events. And you recognize that; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, I do.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you have any changes to make to that Institution Report?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I do not.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. We’ll have those entered into evidence, along with your affidavit. So I understand you’ve been a mayor -- the Mayor of Windsor since 2014, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is you’ve also been the Chair of the Windsor Police Services Board since that time as well.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And as Mayor, you are also part of the Community Control Group, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And can you explain what the Community Control Group is?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The Community Control Group is, effectively, the members of our corporate leadership team, so the Commissioners, and the appropriate people needed to deal with certain events. And basically the idea is if we have a significant event, we give information once to the whole group and then provide a response where everyone is on the same page and understand what needs to be done before we adjourn a meeting.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And when you say, “Commissioners” those are the kinds of leads of the different departments in the City?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes. It’s -- you know, it would be analogous in a corporate setting to the Vice President.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So it’s the senior City leadership team; the city manager and all of the different department heads for each department.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, great. And that includes EMS and the heads of -- well, I assume also members of the WPS, or at least one member of the WPS would be there as well?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
If required, yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes, okay. Thank you. And my understanding is that CCG was activated during the blockade in Windsor of this year. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what kind of decisions would be made at the CCG level?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Any sort of operational decision that is required from a city perspective, and it could be traffic control measures, it could be the acquisition of Public Works items, perhaps jersey barriers. It could be procuring any sort of legal resource that is needed. It really runs the gamut depending on what’s required in each situation.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what’s -- what’s an example of the kind of decision that was made for this particular event, which was the blockade?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, with respect to the blockade, everyone got together. It was very quickly determined that the right incident command for this event was a police response, and so on the back end we were providing operational support to police. And that was procurement of jersey barriers, traffic signal control, signage, you know, whole host of different inputs that would be required to manage what police needed to deal with the event.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And was there also an aspect that dealt with maintaining city services and ensuring the impacts to the residents and businesses was as little as possible?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true. So from a transit perspective, we want to make sure that the transit routes that would have crossed the area in question, that they can continue to be maintained in some order that people could continue to move throughout the city, and so all of those people were around the table making sure that we were deploying the right response to support police in this endeavour.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. And so you kind of -- you wore three hats, in a sense, during the event. You were the Mayor of the city, you were the Chair of the Windsor Police Services Board, and you were a member of the CCG; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so in your role as CCG, who was the -- who would have been briefing you? Would that have been Chief Laforet?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, Chief Steve Laforet is our fire chief, and so he took control of the CCG and was sort of the -- I would say like the emergency coordinator, making sure that all of the people were around the table and that the facilities were available and he acted as the person in charge for that group.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And as Mayor, would it have been the CAO who briefed you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I mean, I received briefings from the Chief of Police at the time, from the Deputy Chief Bellaire, from the CAO, from city legal. I mean, there were a number of inputs coming in to me throughout the day, and certainly at CCG. It was during the CCG meetings, it was a chance for us to share information broadly so that everyone was on the same page and that we knew what was required and we were, you know, for lack of a better term, locked and loaded moving forward.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So in many ways, your three hats were kind of together at the same time. There wasn’t really a distinction between the three roles that were you playing.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Almost none.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to familiarize the Commissioner and others with Windsor and the geography of Windsor and the Ambassador Bridge, which is the bridge in question, because I think it provides some context to what we’re going to be talking about in the next couple of hours. So I wanted to bring up the map that was circulated earlier. And so this is a map of Windsor; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
A portion of it, yeah.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
A portion of it. Okay. Thank you. And we can see at the bottom there the -- yeah, that -- where the cursor is, that yellow line that goes east to west. Is that the 401?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes. The part that’s marked 401 will be the portion that goes to the new Gordie Howe Bridge, and then the portion south of where it sees E.C. Row Expressway, is basically -- it’s called the Herb Gray Parkway, but it’s a direct connection. It effectively is the 401 and links the 401 to -- through the City of Windsor to the -- to the future Gordie Howe Bridge. And then, of course, traffic -- that bridge is not open yet, but traffic that is trying to access the Ambassador Bridge has to get off the 401 north of E.C. Row Expressway where they’re getting on a municipal road. So they move from a provincial highway to a municipal road.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So maybe we can zoom in a little bit on the municipal road. So that would be the yellow road running northwest. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what’s the name of that road?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Huron Church Road.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Huron Church Road. Okay. And so that’s a municipal road now within the boundaries of the city; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so to get to the bridge, we’re going to zoom in. It’s about five kilometres, is my understanding, from the 401 to the bridge on Huron Church Road. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It might be somewhat less than that, you know, say between just around a little over three kilometres.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Fair enough. And so let’s zoom in a little bit there. And so where would the entrance, then, to the bridge be?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So just to the -- to the left of where your cursor -- your pointer is, right there where that green dot is, traffic would proceed north and continue to follow the yellow line. Now you’re onto the -- basically the entrance -- you know, the approach to the bridge.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so that’s still within the city. And is that now -- is there any federal agencies that are in that area that are in charge of securing that area?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, the response is a municipal response, so if there was an accident, if there was some form of criminality or something that required police attention, Windsor Police would respond.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
But you are actually now getting on privately-owned property. The Ambassador Bridge is owned by a private corporation, and so that private corporation is required to follow the provisions of the International Briges and Tunnels Act, which is federal legislation in Canada, and the person -- the Minister responsible for administering that legislation is the Minister of Transportation.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And does CBSA have a presence on this portion on the entrance of the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah. So CBSA, you see the red -- looks like a Customs officer or police officer. That’s where CBSA has their staff.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, great. And so I wanted to make the map 3D, if we can, just to show the elevation because the bridge actually starts not at the river there, but actually further down in the actual city. So I just wanted to show that. If we can zoom in a little bit. So it looks like the bridge really starts -- well, we can see there now it’s going underneath Wyandotte Street. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It goes over Wyandotte Street.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
It goes over, yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so it looks like part of the bridge is actually going through the city itself, not over water. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The bridge itself -- I mean, people would refer to the bridge as the portion of the structure between the two largest pillars. Everything else is the approach, and so the approach to -- you can see the large pillar coming out of the water there. Everything leading up to that pillar is the approach and you can see the rise in elevation as vehicles get on the bridge. And just north of where the pointer is now, that’s University of Windsor campus. It’s directly adjacent to the Ambassador Bridge and they have about 17,500 students that attend that campus.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And the other side looks to be quite residential. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So if we can zoom back a little bit, yeah, and just move back. So in order to, then, enter the bridge, drivers would come north on Huron Church Road and they would enter what we call -- is this called a plaza, this area where vehicles would enter to go through Customs and go through the border?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So where the pointer is now, you can see if you stayed to the left on that roadway, that would be into the plaza area past the duty free and then onto the bridge. And where that pointer was where the number 3 is, again, if you stayed to the left you’re going to the bridge. Stay to the right, that’s how people -- the majority of people, I would submit, get to the University of Windsor each and every day. So that is one way to get on the Ambassador Bridge. There is a second entrance to the Ambassador Bridge, and that is sort of the middle of the screen where the yellow dot is right there. There is an entrance point just down, you know, 20 metres or 30 metres. You can turn in and access the bridge that way as well.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. And my understanding is that the blockade occurred at the intersection of Huron Church Road and College Street. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So let’s go to that area. I believe that’s where the green cursor is. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
The green dot. Okay. Thank you. So now with that in mind, we can talk a little bit about the blockade and how it occurred, having a better understanding of the layout of the city and where the bridge is in relation to the rest of the city. So thank you for that. So you had mentioned that the Ambassador Bridge is privately owned. And that’s on both sides of the border; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And the southern end, the Canadian port of entry is, as we saw, within the City of Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is that there are a few other points of entry, or there are other areas to be able to get to the U.S. side, including a tunnel. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes. So City of Windsor and the City of Detroit, we respectively own our own halves of the Windsor-Detroit Tunnel. We manage them together, but ownership rests with each municipality.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what kind of vehicles pass through the tunnel, as opposed to through the bridge? Why would one go over -- into the tunnel, versus the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The tunnel has -- the tunnel is predominately just vehicular traffic, passenger cars. Haulers, auto haulers, can go in the tunnel, but there are weight and height restrictions. The tunnel is 90 plus years old, so there are height and weight restrictions in the tunnel. So the vast majority of truck traffic uses the Ambassador Bridge. Passenger traffic uses the tunnel.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And my understanding is there’s also a ferry between Windsor and Detroit. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct. And the ferry is used for hazardous goods. They cannot cross through -- they cannot cross over the Ambassador Bridge if they’re carrying hazardous goods.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And does any kind of just regular traffic go also on the ferry? Or is that exclusively limited to hazardous goods?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It’s exclusive to vehicles carrying hazardous goods.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand there’s also a rail tunnel that connects Windsor to Detroit? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
There is, yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what kind of traffic goes through the rail tunnel?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I’m not sure, in terms of the volume of traffic, but it is not a double stacked tunnel, so it limits the type of traffic that can go through, train traffic that can go through.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And is it generally commercial traffic?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, according to the Institutional Report that we saw earlier, my understanding is that there are over 2.6 million truck crossings over the bridge, or there were in 2020. Does that sound about right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That sounds about right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And this is about 28 percent of all of Canada’s truck crossings?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding also is that the bridge handles over $390 million of trade each day. Does that sound right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, so the numbers vary, and it really -- you know, the estimate is between 300 and 450 million, depending on the day, depending on the season. But that -- you know, any way you cut it, it’s hundreds of millions of dollars a day. So between three and 450 is sort of the rule of thumb.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And the bridge also serves as an important corridor for travel for Windsor residents? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It does.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And generally, what kind of day-to-day traffic, in terms of residents, is going over the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well I would say it’s -- there really are two kinds. And so living in Windsor, we have the benefit of being sort of that safe, small, city, community in Canada. And then people who live in Windsor in our area often cross for all of the amenities that you would find in a big city, whether that’s sports, or dining, or entertainment. All of that exists in Detroit just 10 minutes away. But we also have about 6,000 people who cross to go to work. So people who live in our community and cross to go to work in the greater Detroit area each and every day. And those are, you know, everything from engineers and a whole host of healthcare professionals that continue to cross even during the pandemic.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And now you had mentioned that if there was an accident on the bridge, it would be the Windsor Police Service who would respond to that accident; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
If it’s on the Canadian side, yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes. Now what happens if, for example, somebody is trying to cross unlawfully or there’s another type of situation that’s not, say, an accident?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Windsor Police, from my understanding, would be the ones that would receive the first call and provide the first response if there’s other criminal type of activity.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Does the OPP have any jurisdiction anywhere in Windsor or the bridge, to your knowledge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not to my knowledge. I would say that the OPP is responsible. When we looked at the map, just a few minutes ago, where the 401 meets the E.C. Row Expressway, the OPP is responsible to patrol effectively the 401, which is in our area as well.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. But is -- the 401 is outside of the city limits is my understanding. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Exactly. Yeah.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And does the RCMP have any jurisdiction anywhere in Windsor or on the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not to my knowledge. They have a presence in Windsor. There’s a detachment. But I’m not aware that they have any sort of operational dealings with the Ambassador Bridge per say.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, just going back to the arrival of the convoy that caused the blockade, and to even go further before that time, my understanding is that there were slow roll protests that happened at the end of January. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And were you aware of those at the time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I really wasn’t aware of them at the time. They really had no impact and the Chief of the day hadn’t mentioned that to me. And so I wasn’t aware at the time.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And these were convoys of trucks going up and down Huron Church Road kind of slowly in a slow manner? Is that your understanding of what that was?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And as I came to find out, they weren’t blocking traffic, so traffic to and from the Ambassador Bridge was still able to move.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Now, at the end of the January, were you aware of the convoy protest that was happening in Ottawa?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did you have, at that time, any information to suggest that those protests might impact Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I had no information myself, and nothing was passed to me at the end of January.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So when were you first advised that there was potentially a risk of a blockade to the bridge or that there was maybe a plan to blockade the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
February the 4th.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I’m going to take you to WIN0000010. And this is an email dated February 4th. And if we go to the bottom of the first page, yeah, we can see the email is from somebody at CBSA to Carolyn Brown and some other individuals. Who is Carolyn Brown?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Carolyn Brown is a City employee who is responsible for managing the Windsor-Detroit Tunnel. Our half.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Your half of the tunnel. Okay. Not the bridge, the tunnel?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And so she’s saying -- sorry, Mr. Boismier is saying to her: “We have heard of additional ‘slow roll’ protests in and around Huron Church and the Ambassador Bridge over the next few days. Information on social media also suggests that ‘if we don’t see any change by Monday we will be shutting down the Windsor border crossing completely’. While there is no information that I have been made aware of regarding protests at the Tunnel, if any such blockade occurs at the Ambassador Bridge, we may see an increase in passenger traffic and those commercial vehicles that are able to utilize the Tunnel.” Okay. So were you made aware of this information at the time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not from the folks on this email, but I did receive a call from the Chief of Police shortly thereafter, who told me about the slow roll and that police are monitoring this slow roll through the City of Windsor.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And at that time, was there any discussion about potentially trying to prevent a blockade from occurring?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, what the Chief told me, Chief Mizuno had said that that’s when I found out that it was already happening in the days prior to February the 4th and that everyone had been peaceful, that there had been no blockage of traffic to and from the Ambassador Bridge, and so what the Chief told me was that they were monitoring the situation and she just wanted to let me know.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did the City do anything in response to this information?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
On this particular time, I wouldn’t say, on February 4th, not right away. I mean, what I did when I found out, I sent a text to Minister Mendicino just to let him know that I had received this information so that he was aware, because we were watching, of course, what was happening in Ottawa and elsewhere around the country and I just passed that up to the Minister for his attention.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So we’ll go to those text messages since you’ve mentioned it. WIN00002295. So these are your text messages to Minister Mendicino? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so the blue is you and if we go down, there’s some white. The white text is him?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we just go back up a little bit: “Hi....I know things are crazy for you. Wanted you to know that police here are prepping for the potential return of truckers (and other malcontents) next week. It sounds like they may be attempting to block traffic to the Ambassador Bridge.” So that’s on February 4th, as you mentioned, it’s -- when it’s -- came to your attention that there was a risk of a blockade; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go down, it says, “Thx man. Let’s try [to] connect this...” -- let’s go down a little bit more, “...this weekend Stay safe” Okay. So it sounds like you knew him from before, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. It’s not the first time you’re texting him.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And he mentions to connect that weekend; did you speak to him prior to the blockade taking hold? So this would be Friday the 4th, so either on the 5th or the 6th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t recall if we spoke on the weekend.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, moving forward to February 6, my understanding is that there was a risk of a blockade at another location in Sarnia, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And were you aware of that at the time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, I was.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And can you tell us a little bit about what that was about; where it was and what was the issue?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, we were watching -- and the Chief had called me as well, but we were also watching social media and traditional media as well -- and saw that there was a thread and then a blockage at or around the Blue Water Bridge.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And that’s in Sarnia?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did -- do you know how long that lasted or when it got resolved?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t recall how long it lasted but my recollection is it was ended pretty quick.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And that raise any concerns with respect to the Ambassador Bridge and possible blockades there?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, it did.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So let’s move now to February 7th, the day the blockade actually happened. Can you just walk us through that day; what it was like for you, when you found out, and what you did that day?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I’ll say leading up to the 7th there was lots of activity over the weekend because you could feel the temperature rising, in terms of comments on social media, what was happening in around -- in and around Sarnia. We were watching what was happening in Ottawa and we know -- anyone who lives in Windsor knows and appreciates how important the Ambassador Bridge is, not just for our local and regional economies, but also provincially. And so over the weekend we started making preparations to acquire jersey barriers, at the request of police. I had made an effort to secure one of our Transit Windsor buses to put on the -- let’s say the other side of customs, on the duty-free side of the tunnel, just in case there was a blockage at the bridge and the tunnel, because there were -- there was the thought that you could have the closure of both pieces of infrastructure. And we knew that we had to provide a mechanism to move health -- move healthcare workers who lived in Windsor and worked in Detroit. We had to be able to get them through the tunnel, even if their cars could not get through the tunnel. And so we moved a transit bus to the other side, to the duty-free plaza in the tunnel, and then there was -- there was work being done to figure out how to move that bus through, because we were still in this COVID restriction period, and there were ArriveCAN and all sorts of restrictions crossing back and forth through the international border. So work was going on, on that front as well. So everyone was working very well together, dealing with whatever information we had and trying to provide and prepare for the eventual -- you know, the eventuality in the worst-case scenario, which would be the closure of Huron Church Road, leading to the Ambassador Bridge.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And ultimately, the tunnel was not blocked, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So the bus was not -- did not need to be used?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It wasn’t used but we made all preparations just in case because it was imperative that we had access for healthcare workers to get through to the United States.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So there was a sense that the temperature was increasing, as you say. And then on the 7th, what happened on that day?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, on the 7th we opened our Emergency Operations Centre, so that is at one of our firehalls. The Chief opened the EOC; there was a meeting, say 9 or 10 o’clock in the morning that day at the EOC -- or of the CCG, I should say. And everything was sort of laid out, “Here’s what we have”; police were on that call. Everyone was briefed on the information that was available at the time. And, you know, everyone was on the same page. So preparations were being made, if it got worse.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And was there any discussion about doing any kind of actions to prevent a blockade from taking hold? Because it sounds like there was an anticipation that this could happen; it hadn’t yet happened. Was there any discussion about trying to prevent it from happening?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
There were some efforts by OPP, as I was made aware, up the 401, outside the boundaries of the City of Windsor, to try and divert truck traffic that may be on the way. But I think it’s fair to say that, if you know the City of Windsor, and anyone who lives in our city, because of the distance from, say, E.C. Row Expressway, the end of the 401 to the Ambassador Bridge -- and we’re talking three kilometers each way -- the number of businesses, the number of homes, the hotels that are built up that require direct access to Huron Church Road, it would be, for all intents and purposes, practically impossible to guarantee, with any certainty, that you could provide a route for trucks and -- without having huge disruption to the community. Not just the business community, but also the people who live on the west side of the city.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right, because Huron Church Road does serve as an access point between the east side of the city and the west side. It seems to cut right through the city, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It bisects right through.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And so you can imagine the Ambassador Bridge when it was built, you know, 90 years ago, that the road -- Huron Church Road was effectively a road with farms on either side back then. And over time -- there are still home whose driveways require access to Huron Church Road, but over time that’s changed. And so again, you have hotels, many, many hotels, and motels; you have lots of businesses, and you have a whole community. In fact, the western side of Huron Church Road is the oldest -- one of the oldest communities in Ontario, going back to the mid-1700s. It was called Sandwich Town at the time. And so there is a -- it’s a lot of history in that area and a lot of people live there. Not just students that go to the University of Windsor, but a whole host of folks. I mean there’s probably 25,000 people who live on the other side of Huron Church Road, the west side.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And so there was a CCG meeting in the morning, and then what happened after that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Everyone was just making plans; doing the best they could do to support police as they tried to mobilize everything that they required to provide us support. It was very obvious that if something happened here, it was a police response that would be required.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And do you know at what point the blockade, the slow roll became a blockade, and the blockade took hold?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t remember the exact time.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I’ll take you to an email -- it may help. WIN00002223. So this is another email -- if we go down -- from CBSA to Ms. Brown, and this is in the morning: “Open source information states that a convoy will meet up in Comber, Ontario between 0900 [and] 1000 this morning and start heading for the Ambassador Bridge at 1000. Info also states that they will only be going to the Bridge and the Tunnel will be left open for emergencies and emergency vehicles.” So this would have been at 10:00 a.m. or at 9:44, in any event, the bridge was still not blocked. Did you receive this information; was this passed on to you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t recall if that was passed on to me or not.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, I’ll take ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I mean, you know, I say that, and I’ll tell you, I was talking to the Chief of Police or the Deputy Chief probably five times a day.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And direct connection with our City Manager and the department heads, so there was no lack of sharing of information in Windsor. We were all pretty much on the same page and aware of what was going on and trying to develop and devise a response, and especially try to help police as they needed.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so I’ll take you to WIN00000098. And this is another update from CBSA to Ms. Brown. And if we go down, let’s go down. So actually let’s go down all the way. Let’s keep going. There it is. So Mr. Boismier says: “I have been advised that all lanes of the bridge are closed and negotiations have halted. Protestors have advised that they are staying put and not moving. They appear to be setting up a camp of sorts. Both lanes to and from the Bridge, are at a standstill.” So this is now at 7:18 p.m. So do you recall hearing at some time in the evening that the blockade had taken hold.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. And if I can take you to WIN00002204? Now, this is the CCG meeting that you had mentioned that had happened on February 7th in the morning. It looks like this was the first kind of blockade-specific or convoy-specific CCG meeting that took place. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go down, let’s keep going to the next page. Yeah, we’ll keep going. Let’s see -- no, let’s go up a little bit more. Yeah, okay. Good. Yeah. So I’m looking at the part that says, “We do have a comprehensive plan.” Okay, yeah. So at the bottom there, Deputy Bellaire; can you tell us who Deputy Bellaire is?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
He is a Deputy Police Chief in the City of Windsor responsible for operations.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you already mentioned Chief Mizuno, who’s the Chief of Police, right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
At the time, yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
At the time. And so Deputy Bellaire says: “OK, we do have a more comprehensive plan and some fallback and negotiation strategies. There is freedom of movement and we do live in a democracy. If it is an aggressive [keep going down] public demonstration, we have incremental steps to take place as we have done our legal homework.” Do you recall what the discussion was around this point; what Chief Bellaire was trying to express here?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, my sentiment at the time was that they were doing everything they could to speak with the protesters to try and find some way to allow a slow roll to continue, if that’s what folks wanted to do, but to prevent a permanent shutdown of Huron Church Road.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is that in this meeting, the Police Service explained it had a plan in place if the protest worsened, and that in the meeting preparations were discussed such as jersey barriers and mobilizing towing resources, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And can you explain a little bit the City’s role in securing jersey barriers?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I’m not sure exactly who did it but there was requests made, and so likely it would have been our Public Works Department sourcing whatever we had internally as a city, and then where we were deficient in the numbers required, reaching out to adjacent municipalities and trying to procure the jersey barriers that police had asked for.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is that the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario ultimately did provide a significant number of jersey barriers. Does that accord with your recollection?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Certainly at the end of this incident, we wouldn’t have been able to do it without them. We needed their help to secure three kilometres of jersey barriers in each direction, so a total of six kilometres of jersey barriers.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is the City was not -- did not secure towing capacity, or was not able to secure towing capacity, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
We have a -- the police have a contract with a company, which is quite standard, and they provide towing services. And so they have -- they had capacity but there was, you know, -- also there were threats being made against the company and the owners of the company that if they participated and towed cars, there was all sorts of things going on to sort of attack the company and their reputation; online giving them negative reviews, and doing a number of things that happened, ultimately. So, yes, they were -- they are our contractor; they were cooperative, but if the expectation is that they could have helped move all of the vehicles that were there, including some of the heavy trucks, I don’t think they would have had -- it would have taken a long time, or they wouldn’t have had all of the resources required. We would have needed additional support if any attempt was made to go in and move everyone in any timely manner.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So they didn’t refuse to provide services; it’s just they were one company and couldn’t do all of it, essentially.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I’m not aware that they refused to provide services.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But you are aware that they did receive some kind of negative, I guess, repercussions as a result of assisting?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is that originally both the north and the southbound lane of the bridge was blockaded, and then at some point one of the lanes opened up. Do you have a sense for the kind of the movement of the blockade and the different points of entry?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think police would be better positioned to answer, but the briefings that I received from the Chief at the time is that the ongoing negotiations they were trying to get a lane open for emergency purposes. And so they were at one time successful in doing that, and then that ended very, very quickly. And part of the issue that we experienced collectively in Windsor is that this was a leaderless movement. You know, there was no-one speaking for the group who could guarantee the behaviour of the other members. And so police will know better the timing, in terms of, you know, the ebb and flow of what they were able to achieve, but the briefings I received from Chief Mizuno was that at one time they did have a lane open but that that agreement dissolved very quickly.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding, too, is that the access from Wyandotte Road was open at one time, and then that also became blockaded over time.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And when you say, “A leaderless movement”; is this information you received from the police, or how did you come to that conclusion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, it’s information I received from police.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, on the 7th, which is the day of the blockade, I understand you had a discussion with Solicitor-General Jones; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
In or around the 7th. It was the 7th or the 8th.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And she asked what Windsor needed to respond to the blockade?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
She did. And so, obviously, the Solicitor-General had responsibility for the OPP at the time, and I wanted to make sure that she was informed of what was going on, on the ground. But my question to the Chief of Police was, “Chief, what do you need? How many officers do you need?” Because she told me she does not have enough human resources to end the situation that had developed in Windsor. So my response -- my question to her was, “What do you need? Tell me what you need, and I’ll help amplify whatever you need, you know, up the chain with the folks that I speak to.” And so she said, “I need 100 officers.” And so I amplified that with the Solicitor-General; I amplified that with the Premier; I amplified that with Minister Mendicino, and then there were conversations later in the evening on the 8th with my chief of staff and other chiefs of staff at the -- for sure, the federal level, and they asked for that request in writing. And so the Chief in her own right was already working through her channels, and so I asked her -- I told her that, “We’re getting the request to put this in writing. Can you please do that?” And she did that the next day. And so we received the letter on the 9th, and we sent that -- she sent that letter to -- asking for 100 officers, to the Commissioner of the OPP and the Commissioner of the RCMP and we forwarded those letters as well to the folks that we were talking to.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So if I understand correctly, it started with a discussion between you and the Chief. You asked her what she needed; she told you 100. You then went to Solicitor-General Jones and to Minister Mendicino and said, “We need 100 officers,” and they came back and said, “Please put that in writing,” and then you went back to the Chief told her, “Put it in writing,” and on the 9th these letters went out. Is that a fair summary?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So when you spoke to the Solicitor-General on the 7th, that would have been to tell her the request for 100, and is that when she told you, “I need it in writing”?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No. She never told me she needed it in writing. And so I spoke with the Solicitor-General just because I wanted her to be aware of what was happening on the ground, and make sure that she was informed of what was going on down here. And the same with Minister Mendicino, just, “Here’s the temperature and the tenor on the ground; here’s what we’re seeing,” just so they had a sort of situational awareness, I would call it. And so they didn’t ask for it in writing, it was through their staff, really, at the federal level -- through staff at the federal level who said, “Can you please put the request in writing?” And that was on the evening of the 8th, and then I sent a message to the Chief saying, “They’re asking for this in writing,” and she had one of her deputies or superintendents put that in writing and she sent it off in letter form to the Commissioner of the RCMP and the Commissioner of the OPP.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And on February 8th that was your chief of staff that participated in that staff meeting, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you recall anything else noteworthy from that discussion with the Solicitor-General at that time on the 7th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No. She was just -- she was obviously very concerned, very interested, very much wanting to help. And, you know, we agreed just to stay in touch and make sure that we were informing one another of important things related to the matter.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And in terms of your discussion with Mr. Mendicino that same day, was it similar kind of tenor? Is that essentially the same type of discussion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Exactly.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, on February 8th, there was also a meeting of the Windsor Police Services Board; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And that was an in-camera meeting is my understanding. Do you recall that meeting?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So I’ll take you to the minutes of that meeting. WIN00001999. Okay. And if we go down? Oh, sorry, I think this was actually your request to call the meeting.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So you called this meeting as Chair; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Sara Sabihuddin is our Board assistant. And so I had asked her to call a meeting of the Board. I think I did it -- if you went down even further, I think I asked around noon on the 8th.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So and the minutes of that meeting are actually at WIN00002174. There we go. So it was on February 8th at 7:00 p.m. And we can see the Chief was there, two deputy chiefs, you were there as well, some councillors were there, and others. And if we go down to, I believe it’s -- there we go. “Chief Mizuno provided an update to the WPS Board on the recent situation regarding the Ambassador Bridge Blockade. WPS was notified last week of the potential for this protest to take place in Windsor.” And then if we go to the end of that page: “WPS has requested assistance should we need it from Chatham Police and Lasalle Police. Out top concerns are public safety and de-escalation.” What was the Board’s role with respect to securing resources from other local police forces?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The Board took no role in that directly. The Board, and I think you see in the minutes, was do you, you know, “Chief, do you have the resources required to deal with the situation? What do you need from us? If you don’t have the resources, what do you need us to authorize in terms of budget,” or, you know, whatever was in our purview to assist with the Chief providing the response that was required.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did the WPS request any assistance from the Board at this meeting?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go down, keep going, Chief Mizuno there, in the middle, says: “WPS officers are doing a fantastic job. Lessons have been learnt from Ottawa and from our own past experiences and external assistance has been requested.” Do you know what the Chief meant when she says “Lessons have been learnt from Ottawa…”? Do you know what those lessons are?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
In my conversations with the Chief, the largest lesson learned was not to let this grow. Don’t let bouncy castles, and hot tubs, and sort of those types of amenities come to the streets on Huron Church Road and allow this to grow. So make sure that we’re dealing with this, you know, as quickly and swiftly and professionally in a way that, as she said, provides for public safety and de-escalates. But don’t -- you know, lessons from Ottawa, don’t allow this to grow. There may have been others that were on her mind, but that’s one that she mentioned to me.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And are you aware whether there were actions taken to contain it so that it wouldn’t grow?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Police did take action with respect to jersey barriers, and so they cordoned off certain streets. And they had control of certain areas that I think, you know, made their life a little easier and was able to prevent the situation from getting larger.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And in terms of the request for 100 officers, do you have a sense, or did the Board have a sense for how those -- that number was conceived?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No idea. It was simply a request of the Chief, “What do you need?” Recognizing that they had already, on the weekend, say the 4th, 5th, 6th leading up to this, already put a request in for some public liaison officers from the OPP, and so they were -- she was already doing what was required to ask for resources that we may not have had that would have helped provide for what she’s saying here, de- escalation, public safety. It was only when it was finally cemented, the situation finally cemented itself and it became a permanent blockade, she had told me, “I don’t have everything I need. We won’t be able to resolve this with the human resources that we have inside of the Windsor Police Service. We’re going to need additional help.” To which my question was, “What do you need? How many officers do you need? You tell me and I will help amplify that, you know, at the political level so that they are aware of what our request is.” And of course, the expectation was that she was going to do what she needed to do through the OPP and the proper channels operationally on her side.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And in terms of an operational plan, did the Board ever see how those officers were going to be used?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did the Board ever request to see an operational plan?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, and I think that would be somewhat unusual for -- at least for our Board. We wouldn’t get into that level of detail. And there was -- none was presented and none was asked for.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And are you aware whether those resources requested were ultimately provided?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think it’s fair to say more than what was requested was actually provided. And so my understanding, you know, at the -- sort of in the final analysis is that we asked for 100. One may look at the fact that the Chief wrote one letter to the RCMP and one letter to the OPP and may say, “Well, in fact, you asked for 200.” Even if you look at 200 as, you know, if you look at it from that perspective and you say we asked for 200, it’s my understanding that we had at least 500 officers attend to deal with the situation.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And when you say you were amplifying the request politically, what was the response that you were getting from the Federal Government and from the Provincial Government?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
A desire and willingness to help. There were great lines of communication with Sylvia Jones, great lines of communication with the Premier, Minister Mendicino was excellent, and a great phone call with the Prime Minister that I had that, you know, he was very understanding. And of course, living through the situation here in Ottawa, had a perspective on what we were dealing with and wanted to help. So all lines of communication were open and it was back and forth. So it was very good.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did the Board take any specific actions to support the WPS during this time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, the Board asked the Chief, “What do you need from us?” And her comment effectively was, “We have everything we need, or it’s being worked on at this point.” There was no direction required from the Board that wasn’t already being worked on.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So it was the Board’s understanding on February 8th that the only thing preventing the blockade from being dismantled was the influx of resources? There was a plan in place and it was just -- they were just waiting for the resources?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did the Board adopt any policies pursuant to section 31 of the Police Services Act with respect to either the slow roll or the blockade?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did the Board ever direct the Police Chief in any way as contemplated in the Police Services Act?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And who was advising the Board on these issues? On legal issues and interpretations of the Act, et cetera?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
We didn’t have legal counsel in these meetings. And so you’ll see we had the entire -- in this particular meeting, we had the entire Board, we had the Chief, Deputy Chief Bellaire at the time was there, we had our provincial police liaison person from the Solicitor General’s Office there as well, Dave Tilley. And so it never got to a point where the Board felt like or asked a question that couldn’t be answered or was unsatisfied in some way. So the Board felt satisfied at the end of this meeting that they had asked the appropriate questions of our Chief and were supporting her in every way that she asked.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, are you aware of whether the WPS had any communications with protestors or blockade organizers?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The Chief did tell me that they continued, the police continued to talk to protestors. Again, I go back to, you know, opening one lane for a period of time. That was through a negotiation. And every day, the Chief told me that they continued to talk, they continued to have discussion and dialogue. It just, you know, ultimately didn’t change much.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did you have any discussions with protestors or organizers?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you have a sense for whether the protestors were local to Windsor, whether they were coming from the outside, whether they were coming from Ottawa? Do you have a sense for who these people were?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, I asked the question, because clearly police were gathering intelligence on license plates and, you know, scanning social media and doing the work that they needed to do. And I asked the question on whether or not these were, you know, generally local folks or were they folks coming, you know, from elsewhere. And there were a fair number of local folks, as I was told, that were part of the demonstrating group, but I was also told by the Chief that there were a fair number of folks who weren’t even from Essex County, that had come in from elsewhere to participate in this.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, on February 9th, you said to reporters that arresting the demonstrators opposed to pandemic health measures and towing their vehicles could lead to violence and -- because you said some of them were willing to die for it. Do you recall saying that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I do.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And how did you reach that assessment, that they were willing to die for it?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, there was a -- there was a TV report that was also reported on the front page of the Windsor Star where -- and this was very early on in the protest -- that one of the protestors had said outright that they were - - this is a cause that they were willing to die for. And there was a -- in the reports to me was that there was a very high temperature on the ground amongst the protestors. They were very aggressive in their language and in their posture, and it was that type of comment “willing to die for the cause” that caused police to take a more measured approach into the way that they dealt with the situation. No one need to -- no one needed to die on the streets of Windsor or elsewhere protesting vaccine mandates or whatever the protests ultimately was about, and so everyone took a pause. No one wanted to see a repeat, you know. That was one thing the Chief had told me, that there was a concern about what had happened in Toronto at the G20. And so you know, members of the public in Windsor were saying, “Why don’t you just go in there and end this?”. Like it didn’t seem like it wasn’t something -- that it was an issue that the police couldn’t resolve quickly to the average person. And so the public was feeling, you know, the energy that they wanted to see something happen and, at the same time, you know, police are saying this is not, you know, a typical protest that would see on a Sunday afternoon on the -- on the front lawn at City Hall. And so they were being very measured, they were being very cautious. They did not want to see a recreation of the events that happened in Toronto, and so they were taking a lot of precaution.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And do you have a sense for how many vehicles or number of protestors were involved?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It seemed to ebb and flow, and so sometimes at night more would come out as I’m told the party atmosphere sort of ramped up. And it could be 200 at one point, you know, down to 75.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Sorry. Are you referring to protestors or vehicles?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Protestors.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Protestors. Sorry. Was that your question?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes. Protestors and vehicles.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And vehicles, I’ll leave it to Deputy Chief Crowley to answer that. I’m not exactly sure how many vehicles, ultimately, were there.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so then is it fair to say that Bylaw was not ticketing and towing, they were not enforcing because of the reasons you mentioned in terms of escalating?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah. We would never -- with the temperature on the ground and the -- and the statements folks were making, we would never send our Bylaw Officers in to enforce municipal bylaws. In fact, you know, there was a report to me that we had a -- our parking enforcement is outsourced to the Commissionaires, and a Commissionaire did respond February 8th or 9th, went in to issue some tickets and was swarmed and put in a situation that was -- she felt was very dangerous or that they felt was very dangerous and actually had to be escorted to their car by police and leave, you know. And folks were spitting on the car as the Commissionaire left. And so the temperature was too hot to think that you were going to send municipal Bylaw Officers in there without police -- without police accompanying them. And so at the end of the day, the thought was that negotiation would be the best way forward and, again, no need to die or get hurt in this type of protest. Let’s find a sensible way through and get everyone to move on so we can get the bridge open and the economy moving again.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And are you aware of any other incidents of threats or violence with respect to the blockade aside from the one you just mentioned?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, related to the blockade ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- besides the one at my house?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Well, maybe tell us about that one.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, one of the -- one of the folks involved threatened to, I think it was, to bomb my house or do something like that and so, you know, we woke up and all of a sudden there are two or three police cars around our house for several weeks because of the temperature on the ground and what people were posting on social media and the comments that were being made. It became a very direct threat to me and my family, and so that, in itself, was concerning. But it was just -- it was the nature and sort of the spirit of the protest. It was unlike anything I’ve ever seen, and I’ve lived my whole life in the City of Windsor. It’s unlike anything I’ve ever seen during that time. And the posture and the language was -- you know, it was almost as if folks wanted some sort of brawl on the streets. You know, they were hoping police would engage in that way so they could have some sort of, you know, brawl on the streets, if I can describe it that way. And I know police weren’t interested in that. As the Mayor, I wasn’t interested in that. As Chair of the Police Board, I wasn’t interested in that. We were interested in finding a way through this that was sensible, that was practical but, ultimately, that, you know, opened the road leading to the Ambassador Bridge because it is such a vital economic -- piece of economic infrastructure, not just for Windsor Essex County, but for the entire province and, respectfully, for the nation. We had to get that roadway open.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And are you aware of any other individuals who received threats, anyone within City Council, anyone within -- in any other kind of prominent position?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I know Councillor Fabio Costante, who represents the west side of the city on both sides, frankly, of Huron Church Road, and there was a comment made that they would protest at his law office. He’s a lawyer and he has a law office in Sandwich Town. And so there was a comment made that they would be going there to protest at the law office.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did that materialize?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not that I’m aware of.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to go back to the request for resources, if I can, for a minute. Can I take you to WIN00001623? And these are the letters that Chief Mizuno sent. I believe this one is to the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, there we go, to Minister Blair. And that’s on February 9. And I just want to go down -- yeah. Here we go. So it says: “Windsor Police Service is requesting a minimum of 100 police officers be dispatched to the City of Windsor to bolster current and potentially future requirements.” Okay. And if we go down, I just want to see the signature. Yeah, Pamela Mizuno, Chief of Police. Thank you. So that’s the letter that she sent to Minister Blair.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go to WIN00001648. So this is now also dated February 9 addressed to the Honourable Sylvia Jones, Solicitor-General. And if we go down, I believe -- so this one is also requesting 100 police officers. I believe it’s the same letter. The letters were also asking, in the second paragraph, “marked police vehicles and tow trucks, including heavy tows for large transport vehicles”. And if we go down, it’s also from Chief Mizuno. Now, you had mentioned that your understanding was that the requests were made to the RCMP and the OPP. Are you aware of other letters that were sent to the -- to the Commissioners of the OPP and RCMP?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So these would be the requests, the letters that were sent.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Those are the letters that I’m aware of. The Chief, I know, was having conversations with her colleagues that I wasn’t -- you know, that I wasn’t party to. But this is -- this is what we were asked for, to put it in writing, and that’s what she did. And she sent it off from her office to Minister Blair’s office and to Minister Jones’s office.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And on February 9 that same day, your Chief of Staff scheduled a meeting between you and the Office of the Solicitor-General. Do you recall that? I know we had a discussion on the 7th or the 8th, and now it looks like there’s another one on the 9th. What was the purpose of that discussion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It was just an update, and so, you know, I was just trying to keep everyone updated.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Was anything requested at that time or offered in terms of assistance?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Nothing -- nothing more than the 100 officers that we had asked for.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can go to WIN00001583. So this is now text messages between you and Premier Doug Ford; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so the dark is you speaking and then the light-coloured text is Premier Ford; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And it looks like he is asking you to call him on February 9. Did you have a call with him on February 9th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I did.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what was the discussion on that call?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Obviously, he was receiving -- I shouldn't say obviously, but he was receiving phone calls from businesses as well who were concerned about the blockade at the Ambassador Bridge. I gave him sort of a situational briefing on what we had going on down here, and, you know, that we had asked for a hundred officers. So it was a -- I think a fairly quick phone call, just a couple of minutes, and, you know, he was stressing to me the importance of the Ambassador Bridge and that we have to find a way to get this open. And I certainly agreed with him and understood that as well.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did he make any offers of assistance or anything of that nature?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, I had told the Premier that we asked for a hundred officers and that OPP already had some resources on the ground, PLT Liaison Teams, that were already here.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So I told him that and told him about the hundred officer request, and then he asked for Minister Mendocino's phone number, which I texted to him.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And now this is two days before the Province declared a provincial state of emergency. Did that come up in your discussions with him?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Never, no.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So he didn't ask you whether you wanted that or whether you needed that or anything to that affect?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What about the Emergencies Act, the Federal Emergencies Act, was that ever discussed with the Premier?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Never.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now the next day on February 10, you spoke to the media and said that additional resources were being deployed by the OPP and that the Premier and Solicitor General were responding rapidly to your call for support. Was that accurate at the time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I'm sorry, can you ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
It was on February 10 ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
--- you told reporters that this request was being actioned very quickly and that the OPP was being deployed and that the Premier and Solicitor General were responding rapidly to your request for resources.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I believe that to be true, yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you have a sense for when -- it says there "OPP resources started to arrive." So by the 10th you were receiving or the City was receiving OPP resources?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, we had some resources, cars that you could see, OPP cars along the Huron Church Road. And the Chief told me that there were PLT Units that were already here negotiating, and then she did tell me that Public Order Units were also starting to arrive.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Because my understanding is that the Windsor Police Service did not have at the time a PLT Unit or a POU Unit; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So they were coming in from other -- the OPP was providing those; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, OPP, RCMP.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you have a sense for when RCMP officers arrived in Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don't exactly, no.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did the Board have any role in swearing RCMP officers in?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Do you know how that was done or who did that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I just was aware that that was an issue and I'm not sure the mechanics behind the scenes on, you know, how that was resolved.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now my understanding is that there was an injunction that was sought and granted with respect to the blockade; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And how did this idea come about? Who was the initiator of this?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I was. And on February the 9th, you know, in the -- in sort of the mid to late afternoon, I'd had a conversation with our Commissioner of Legal Services, Shelby Askin Hager, you know, about the prospect of an injunction. And she wanted to think through it and make sure she understood the best way to move forward with that idea. And then on the 10th, in the morning, we had to move quickly if we were going to make that happen. And so I said, "We need to do this." And the reason for doing this was -- there were multiple reasons. What people need to appreciate is that not just the temperature on the ground of the protesters, but the temperature of the general public to this protest was amplifying as well, and I could not as mayor, I could not as Chair of the Windsor Police Services Board direct police operations and tell the Chief or the police administration how to move forward and when to move forward. I had no clear line of sight on how many resources were coming here. I knew there -- you know, I'm getting dribs and drabs of, you know, yes, some folks are en route. Well, are they en route from Alberta? Are they en route from Newfoundland? Are they coming from Orillia? I have no sense of the timing. And so the public temperature to this protest was also growing rapidly, to the point where you had Facebook groups being set up where people wanted to go out and undertake sort of vigilante type justice on the streets to remove these protesters themselves. And it was -- as it relates to, you know, the pandemic that we'd all lived through, in Windsor, we had lived through the same thing that many others have lived through, the stops and the starts of businesses, people not getting paid for a period of time, and going through that frustration and friction as we've all dealt with the pandemic collectively. And so just when we were at a point where there seemed to be, you know, light on the horizon, this was seen to be very, how do I say it, assaultive to many people in Windsor that this was a small group of people, a relatively small group of people who were now going to jeopardize their employment. And so you had, like I said, Facebook groups that were starting where people were suggesting, and union leadership suggesting they were going to -- they were prepared to help move the protesters themselves and take action themselves. And so part of the reason for applying for the injunction was to send a signal to the public that I'm doing everything -- that the City is doing everything, that City Council is doing everything we can from our side of the table to try and resolve this issue. It was really the only positive step I could think of taking that would be helpful in terms of a signal to the public. Before I did this, I did talk to the Chief and said, "Would this be helpful to you?" And she said, "Listen, it won't hurt." And so on the morning of the 10th, very early, we activated legal teams to start putting the materials together, trying to see if we could get a scheduled appointment in court to present the application. And I worked with our Commissioner of Legal Services and our City Manager and all of the right people on the City side to see that move forward very quickly. And so, you know, the conversation really was first thing in the morning, seven or eight o'clock in the morning, and by two o'clock, we were appearing in front of Justice Morawetz to have this discussion.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. So I'll ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And I would just say ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- so ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Go ahead.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- the one part was the public, letting the public know we're doing everything we can. The other thing was putting, you know, another arrow in the quiver for police. It was another tool that they could use with respect to saying you are now in violation -- if we were successful in getting the injunction, that you are in violation of this injunction and it was another arrow in their quiver.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so City Council adopted a resolution that an injunction be sought; right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And this was on February 10th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So you were able to call a meeting that quickly to get everybody together from the 9th when you kind of conceived this to the 10th; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's right.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And it seems like the police was on board with the injunction, they thought it would be -- it wouldn't hurt, in any event.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Wouldn't hurt.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so, ultimately, as you say, the injunction became effective at 7 p.m. on February 11 is my understanding; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And why was the City an intervenor in that application and not the main applicant; do you know?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think through our discussions, before we proceeded, we talked about who was most impacted, you know, and how could we tell the story here about who was impacted, and it was clear. In the first 60 minutes of Huron Church Road being blocked, our phone rang at the mayor's office from our largest employer, Chrysler, or now Stellantis, to say, "What's going on at the Ambassador Bridge?" You know, there are 5,000 people directly who work in that facility making Chrysler Pacificas and minivans that rely on smooth and efficient border crossings because the whole industry, the whole auto industry works on a just in time basis. There's no parts being stored on site. They are brought in, and that bridge is moving, and the material's moving across that bridge every hour of every day. And so it's -- you know, for perspective, the average part that goes into a car that rolls off the assembly line at the end of the manufacturing process, those parts have crossed the border on average six to seven times, back and forth, Detroit back to Windsor, you know, as they continue to be, you know, upgraded and built. And so within the first 60 minutes, they called and said, "What's going on at the Ambassador Bridge?" And so we knew that the APMA, the Automotive Parts Manufacturer's Association, the CVMA, the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers Association were impacted dramatically by the activity at the bridge. And so they were certainly, you know, good parties to put forward the request. And then we were -- we took the role - - we played the role that we played, I think, appropriately.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so my understanding is the Attorney General of Ontario was also an intervenor in that application?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And how did they become involved and what was the coordination with them like?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I’m not sure.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Who took the lead on the injunction from the City’s side?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Shelby Askin Hager, who is our Commissioner of Legal Services.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So she would have had the coordination with the Attorney General? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
She would be the one in the best position to answer your question.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Fair enough. So as we said on February 11 at 7:00 p.m., the injunction came into effect. It was extended then on February 18? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what, if anything, did it change on the ground? What impact did it have, if any?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well I think that once the injunction became effective, that it sent a signal to the public that this has now, from the public watching from the outside, that we have done all that we can do. And again, it gave another tool to police to go in, and they did. When the police went in and actually had to arrest people, those folks were charged with violating the terms of the injunction. And so it sent a signal. But I think, you know, I would like to think that from a protestor’s perspective, it also meant that the protestors had their day in court, had the opportunity to present their position to Justice Morawetz, Chief Justice Morawetz, and have a conversation in court through the established legal structures that we have in place. All parties had a chance to do that. And Chief Justice Morawetz ultimately made his decision that was favourable to grant the injunction, but everybody had an opportunity. In fact, our application on February 10th was delayed and heard on February 11th to ensure that all parties, including the protestors, were given notice so that they could participate. Police went out and plastered every telephone pole, the jersey barriers, with copies of the order. We had to set up a website. We promoted it on social media. Certainly it was amplified in every major media source and through every social media channel that I saw.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
If you could just slow down a bit ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Sure.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
--- for the interpreters?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Thank you. There were great efforts made to make sure that all parties who had an interest in this application had an opportunity to have their day in court.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And the City, in fact, assisted to distribute these pamphlets once the injunction was granted, to give notice of the injunction? Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So would you say there was adequate notice given about the injunction to those in the blockade and in the protest area?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did it have the effect of having people leave? Did anybody leave as a result of the injunction or was it simply that then they were charged with violating the injunction once the arrests took place?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, the reports -- I wasn’t on the ground, but the reports that came back to me said many of the protestors were looking at this as, you know, another court order, another law, another thing that just, you know, was dispensable. They could violate it. It was no big deal. It was just words on a paper. So I’m not that it had -- on the face of it, I’m not sure that it had the effect of having people say, “Oh, there’s a court order. I’m going to leave now. I think it just, you know, gave them, the protestors, another thing to rally behind, saying, “Nothing is going to make us leave.”
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, was there any discussion with the Windsor Police Service about whether they had the resources at that time to enforce the injunction and whether that was a concern at all?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well I think it’s fair to say, as we got to -- that was a Friday, the 11th, as we got to the Friday, all of the communication from the Chief to myself was that we had major resources that were here on the ground, the plans were devised and being, you know, sorted out with the help of the OPP Commander and our own incident commanders. Everyone was working through how to affect a resolution to this blockade.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So fair to say that the injunction and the resources were coming at the same time, essentially?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Exactly.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So at -- there was also a Board meeting, a special in-camera Board meeting on February 11th. Do you recall that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So that was the second Board meeting with respect to this blockade. And I’m going to take you to the minutes. WIN00002173. Yeah, and if we go down. If we keep going down. Okay. And yeah, keep going down a little bit. There’s a part where you ask a question. I’m just trying to find that. Keep going down. Okay. Let’s go back to the first page. Oh, there it is: “Chair, Mayor Dilkens: Is there anything required from WPS from the Board? Chief Mizuno: No other resources required at this time. We initiated OPP resources Wednesday. Additional resources are flowing in. RCMP have come to town as well and are helping.” So this lines up with what you’re telling me. By the 11th of February, it sounds like resources have been mobilized, they’re starting to come in, and there’s no real concern over resources anymore. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go down a little bit more. So Chief Mizuno there says: “If and when we take action we will be well positioned with resources to support that. State of Emergency does help and gives us additional tools in terms of future protests.” Now, this on February 11. I assume she’s referring to the Provincial State of Emergency; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And do you have a sense for what those tools were that the Provincial State of Emergency could assist with?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t recall the entire list, but I knew that there were significant financial penalties. And the Province, through their emergency action, also sent a very strong signal that if you continue to participate in these protests at these locations or border crossings, that you could lose, if you were a truck driver, your Commercial Vehicle Operating License, and you could also lose your driving license if you were, you know, not a truck driver. And so those are pretty significant penalties that I think sent a signal to any reasonable or sensible person to say, “We better think long and hard about wanting to continue to protest at this location, because the -- you know, the disincentive is huge.”
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And do you have any sense for whether that Provincial State of Emergency encouraged protestors to leave the site?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think that that Provincial Emergency, you know, when the police were ready to move, and they did the next day and ultimately cleared up two days after this meeting, that you had compliance. When jersey barriers were moved, when the police put their line in place and they started, you know, moving forward with their line, and they got to the point where there were vehicles there, the vast majority of people ultimately left.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, I want to go back to your discussions with the Minister of Public Safety -- sorry, Minister Mendicino at WIN00002295. And these are the text messages that we had seen before. If we can go to page 3? So you say: “I told Premier I spoke to you and he asked for your number I get the sense he is going to follow Alberta and Saskatchewan” What did you mean by that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, the Premier, I think appropriately, was feeling the temperature across the province, was seeing these protests, probably in Ottawa, but certainly in Windsor, as, you know, an outlet for some who wanted some of the restrictions to be lifted. And, you know, Alberta and Saskatchewan had moved to start lifting some of the restrictions. And my sense from the Premier is that he wanted to find a pathway to get back to normal, you know, as soon as it made sense as well.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did you have a sense that that was because of the protests across Ontario?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, not necessarily. I think my sense from the conversation is that, again, he was -- he had his finger on the pulse of the people of Ontario and was watching, of course, what was happening across the country as well, and was feeling, you know, some of the frustration that we were all feeling with respect to the lockdowns, recognising that, you know, it was January of 2022, where we were in a lockdown as well ---
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- a provincial lockdown. So the Premier, sensibly, was echoing some of the sentiments and looking at this as, you know, a percentage of the population who was protesting because they felt most aggrieved by this.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go to page 9. Go down. You say: "I'm told our police support is going to be good. I think protesters are looking to make show of things." So in terms of the "police support going to be good", was that from your discussions with Chief Mizuno?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I should say Chief Mizuno and Deputy Chief at the time Bellaire.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Bellaire. Okay, thank you. And my understanding is you texted -- once the injunction was granted, you texted the Minister as well as Deputy Premier Jones and the Premier to let them know that the injunction had been granted; right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go to page 12 of this document. Okay. And he says, "Do you think it will end today", and you're saying, "I'm thinking it will". So what was your sense on February 12th of where things were at in terms of resources and a plan to move forward to clear the blockade?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That everything was in place, that the resources were in Windsor, that the plan had been devised, and in fact, on the 12th, the police started their operation. They put out the line with Public Order Units and all of the equipment behind them, and they started to move forward on the 12th to deal with the situation on the ground.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And in text above, you mention the congregation from Harvest Bible Church. My understanding is they had something to do with continuing the blockade at some point on the 12th. Can you explain that situation?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So the picture above my words I think is a link or a screenshot from the pastor at the time, I'm not sure if he still is, but as the police started to move forward and, you know, make advances on the 12th, there was a call put out by the pastor of this church to ask for folks to come down and support the protesters. And very quickly, which might have been, you know, a hundred to two hundred people turned into six hundred people, including parents with kids and strollers, like it was almost unbelievable how fast that situation grew in terms of the number of people. But seeing the police action, I mean it was disheartening to see the police action and them making advances and then to see parents bringing their kids down to that situation, and that's exactly what happened. Which is largely why it wasn't resolved that particular day on Saturday. It took until Sunday for the situation to be resolved.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
I see. So the police started moving in on the 12th, and weren't able to because now the number of protesters grew in size?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well -- and I think someone in the police structure, probably several people, said this would be -- you know, the most sensible thing here is to wait because at some point these kids are going to get cold, it's February, they're going to get cold, they're going to get tired, they're going to get hungry, and they're going, you know, they're going to leave. So we're not going to move forward with the policing posture they had in place when you had a lot of young kids there. They were being very wise in their approach in saying let's do this at a different time when it makes more sense.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if we go to page 12 of this -- oh, we are on page 12. Okay, keep going down, please. Keep going down. Okay. So you say: "It will end today, fingers crossed. Police have full control of the area now." And this is now on the 13th; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
"[G]ood. Bridge re-open today?" "If so, it will be later once jersey barriers [etc.] are removed. There is still some activity in the plaza at..." I can't really read that.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
"Tecumseh and Huron Church."
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
"...Tecumseh and Huron Church. Police just got permission from owner to trespass these people. Stay tuned." "Ok keep me posted. Head[ed] into meetings with the PM." And if we go to page 18. So this is now 3:40 p.m. on the 13, and he says: "About to head into meeting with PM, any critical updates?" And you say: "Small flare up. A block from Huron Church. A few arrests made. Simultaneously working to get Huron Church open. 25-30 malcontents on scene." Keep going down: "Update: [about] 25 arrests now. Police hoping to reopen bridge tonight. Trying to secure 1,100 jersey barriers...failing which, one side of Huron Church will be open and operate for 2-way traffic like a construction zone." And if we go down. And then -- it looks like, then, on the 13th, that's when the bridge reopened is my -- or the blockade was cleared on the 13th; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And then on the following day, he asks, "How's it going this am", on the 14th, in the morning. "Smooth so far." And then you say: "Are you guys taking some legislative action re: Emergencies Act?" And then he says: "Will call you this [afternoon]. To the extent you can be supportive of any additional authorities that gets Windsor the resources you need to keep the bridge open, people safe, that would be great." So I want to ask you about that exchange. What gave you the sense that there was some consideration of the Emergencies Act being considered at that time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I had seen a report, and I don't know which media source, CTV or CBC, had -- or Globe & Mail had made some post that I saw that proposed that that may be in the works. And so it just caused me to send him the question.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And he said he would call you about that. He didn't respond over text, but he said he would call you. And did you have a discussion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don't -- no, we did not.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Oh, you didn't.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then what did you understand him to mean when he says, "To the extent you can be supportive of any additional authorities"?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I think, you know, we all know that that Act has never been used before, and we all know that it's a serious Act and requires this type of thing to happen afterwards, which is extraordinary. And so if they were going to move forward with that, I think he's saying, you know, "if you could express" -- the way I took that is "if you could express what was happening on the ground that would help justify this, that would be helpful to us." And I think it's really, really important, you know, to reflect on that statement, but also use that statement based on what we were seeing on the ground in Windsor. And so there may have been some great relief, and there was great relief to a lot of people in Windsor on the 13th. Once the folks were moved, all of a sudden, you know, in lightening speed 1,100 jersey barriers were replaced, 6 kilometres of jersey barriers, creating a direct pipeline from the 401 to the Ambassador Bridge. But the piece that needs to be explained here is the heightened state of alert that was in place by police in the community and the city with respect to sort of some sort of recidivism that may happen as a result of this blockade being moved. And it's the type of behaviour that's happened throughout the pandemic, where you have members of the public in Windsor saying, you know, "There's a protest. We're all supposed to be masked metres apart from one another, and there's a protest and a hundred people down, you know, by our great Canadian flag at the waterfront. Why aren't police doing anything? Why is that behaviour being allowed to continue?" And it's hard to explain to people that if you move hundred people out and take action against these sort of lawbreakers or rulebreakers that you could have three thousand the next weekend. You know, you become the rallying cry for this. And so that was the thought in place here. From a police perspective, the conversations that we certainly had amongst many of the senior staff and myself and the City is, you know, "This action needs to be resolved. This action needs to be taken to resolve the situation on the ground, but what happens after they're gone?" And so the number of police that were sent to the City of Windsor to move the protesters out was one thing, but a significant number of police resources remained in order to make sure that this didn't flare up again. And so from an Emergencies Act perspective, you know, anything that would send a signal to people contemplating coming to Windsor to start this over again, I thought, from my chair, was extremely helpful to send a signal. You had the City declare an emergency, the Province declared an emergency, and then the Federal Government declared an emergency, and I think that sent -- ought to have sent a signal to a lot of people that this is serious matter and will not be allowed to happen again.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now, on that point, the City of Windsor actually declared a municipal state of emergency after the Province did, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And it was on -- I believe on the 14th, is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So maybe just explain why the municipal state of emergency was called after the blockade had already been cleared, and not prior to that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, thank you for asking that question. So what happened is we had had a Council meeting prior to me signing off on the declaration of Emergency on the 14th. One of the concerns that Council had generally was, there was a portion of the resolution in front of Council that provided wide latitude to the City Manager to do a number of things that Council didn’t feel comfortable giving sort of carte blanche to the City Manager at that particular time. And we’re talking about acquiring resources or moving transit routes; like, City operational type stuff. That I said, “Well, don’t worry. If you have a concern with that, let’s not get held up with that. I’ll declare the emergency, which then would wrap that authority up in me -- to me, and anything that’s required with respect to dealing with this direct pipeline that’s been created, I’ll have the ability to deal with. And so I signed it on the 14th and I, you know, ended it 10 days later.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So that allowed us just -- and I don’t even think there was much that came out of that, in terms of, you know, needing to be dealt with operationally. Everyone just sort of figured it out, and we did what we had to do. I think we -- I think I may have given free transit to people who started on the west side of Huron Church to be able to get to the other side because the disruption was big. There were a few things like that but nothing material, I would say, was used -- was done by me with respect to that emergency power.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And as you had mentioned, the injunction was really a signal to the public that the City was doing everything it could. Why couldn’t the state of emergency also be a signal, even if measures wouldn’t necessarily be used or that it wasn’t much additional powers that could be gained from it; wouldn’t it be a signal to the public the City was doing everything it could?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Do you mean why didn’t I sign the Declaration of Emergency prior to the 14th?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, you know, I felt like that wasn’t going to provide anything new that I needed at the time. So we didn’t have -- like, police were telling me what they needed; I was trying to amplify their requests from a City perspective. And with respect to Public Works and jersey barriers and all the things that we had to mobilize, no-one came to me saying, “We can’t do this,” or, “They’re charging us 10 times the amount.” Nothing -- nothing would have benefited. I can’t see the situation becoming better because I signed it at that particular time. What happened on the 14th, though, when everyone woke up and they saw this tunnel from the 401 to the Ambassador Bridge in both directions, if you live in Windsor, you know that that was, like, a major, major thing. All cross traffic was blocked, bus routes were rerouted; there were going to be impacts on business, many businesses, over 200 businesses that were, you know, impacted as a result of that particular action. And, again, that wasn’t something that was my decision; that was a police decision to put these jersey barriers in place and create a safe pipeline to and from the bridge. So I anticipated that there would be some requirement to deal very, very quickly on the municipal side with stuff that we deal with operationally, but that tool would have given me the benefit of acting quickly. And so that’s why I did it on the 14th as opposed to do it earlier, because I didn’t see the need to do it earlier.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so the purpose, then, was to get some sort of financial compensation for the businesses that were prevented from getting business because of the jersey barriers that were blocking east-west traffic?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I just knew -- not necessarily. I knew that what had been done was a -- was going to have some form of material impact on a variety of different operations and businesses; a material impact on the way people lived their lives on either side of Huron Church Road, and what I wanted, it wasn’t so much at that time sending a signal to the public, it was just saying, “Okay, Council, if you feel uncomfortable giving the City Manager that authority, I’ll take that authority under the Emergencies Act and be able to deal with anything very, very quickly.” And, again, in 10 days, once the situation stabilized and normalized, I signed off and said, “There’s no longer a municipal emergency.”
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And how long were those jersey barriers in place along Huron Church Road?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Weeks. Several weeks. I can’t remember the exact date when they were finally removed. There was an incremental -- for a couple of weeks they were there, and it was a direct pipeline and you had hundreds of police on duty making sure that if trucks stopped, that they were acting very quickly to have folks move on. But incrementally and over time, you saw certain jersey barriers removed at certain intersections so people could cross Huron Church Road, and then police maintained a -- you know, I’d say a heightened state of readiness at those locations, just in case there was a flareup.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what was your understanding of the potential of another blockade taking hold after the original one was cleared?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
This is the important point; again, that there was the thought, and the Chief expressed this to me, and Deputy Chief Bellaire at the time expressed to me that they were quite concerned that something would happen; you know, that there would be behaviour where folks would come back, and they didn’t know when, they didn’t know how many, and there were resources -- police resources deployed along the 401 outside of the City of Windsor to sort of monitor this type of activity. There were resources allocated to scan social media and some of the likely sites to sort of gather intelligence on that front as well. But the thought was that they were coming back, and there were some attempts -- there were some attempts that police intercepted, as I’m aware of.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And my understanding is that there was also the concern that once Ottawa was cleared, that those protesters would come to Windsor.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what can you tell us about that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Again, just monitoring what was happening up in Ottawa, knowing that there was a high level of frustration amongst that protester group; that, you know, if they were looking to continue that type of protesting activity, it’s one thing to do it in Ottawa, at the seat of the federal government, it’s another thing to do it at the busiest border crossing between our two countries; that has a significant impact on the lives of tens of thousands of Canadians. Not just people in my community, people all across this province that rely on smooth and efficient border crossings for their livelihoods, who’ve been impacted, you know, over a couple of years with the pandemic. And so, you know, there was -- I think we all knew that if you wanted to have the biggest impact, the biggest impact economically would be in Windsor, leading up to the Ambassador Bridge.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if I can take you to WIN00000972? Now, this is February 16, so a few days after the blockade has been cleared. And this is a briefing, I believe these were some remarks that you gave; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And if you go down -- keep going. So there; the bolded section there, you say: “Let me be clear - this remains a national security situation that prevents us from simply reopening Huron Church Road to regular traffic at this time.” What did you mean by “National security situation”?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I would add even national, you know, economic security situation. You know, the amount of trade that crosses at the Ambassador Bridge is material; it’s material for our province; it’s material for our nation. And so every day that that bridge is closed, it has a huge impact on the lives of tens of thousands of Canadians who rely on smooth and efficient border crossings for their livelihoods. And so national security situation; we had the deployment of three kilometres of jersey barriers in each direction. I didn’t make that decision. That was a police decision using the intelligence that they had, all the tools and information they had at their disposal in order to find a way, the best way forward, to get access to the Ambassador Bridge from the 401 so that this bridge was open, that the economy was moving once again, and that they could maintain control of what I would argue is a piece of infrastructure that is in our national economic interest. It is a very material, critical piece of national infrastructure that just doesn’t happen to be -- that happens to be owned by a private interest.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Did you have any discussions with Minister Mendicino or anybody else at the federal government about the risk of another blockade after the one on the 14th was cleared?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I probably did. You know, there were check-ins. Minister Mendicino is very good at checking in, saying, how are things going today? He did that many days in a row. And to the extent I had information from police where there was something worth reporting, I sent that back to him, so that he had situational awareness of what we were dealing with on the ground. Minister Mendocino is someone who went -- he lived in Windsor. He went to law school at the University of Windsor, so he also knows the area. And once you have a perceptive of what it's like on the ground, it's easier to have a conversation. He knows the impact of what happened on Huron Church Road without me even having to discuss it with him. He just intuitively knows that because he's from -- he had experience in the area. And so, yeah, we went back and forth, and he was very good at checking in, just asking for an update and trying to gather information for his perspective.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So in terms of continuing threats to the Ambassador Bridge, you're getting that information from the Chief of Police or the Deputy Chief of Police. You're not getting any information from any federal entities giving you kind of intelligence or information?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And to your knowledge, were any of the federal emergency powers ever used to prevent further blockades?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I'm not aware.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Now on March 17, you wrote to Ministers Mendocino and Blair and to the Solicitor General explaining some issues that you believed had been brought to light by these blockades. Do you recall that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Was this the letter asking to have a, you know, a sit down and try and figure out the path forward?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And so what were some of those concerns that you had at the time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, this is a -- the Ambassador Bridge and the City of Windsor is a unique circumstance. So you have, as I said, the Ambassador Bridge, the busiest commercial border crossing between the United States and Canada, which is privately owned, that sits at one end of the municipal roadway, and three kilometres on the other end is a provincial highway. And so, you know, the 401 is a roadway where there are no traffic lights. It's sort of barrier free. But as soon as you get off onto Huron Church Road, you're on that municipal road, which falls under the responsibility and authority of the City of Windsor and the Windsor Police Service. You have six or seven traffic lights, so trucks as they make their way from the 401 to the Ambassador Bridge have to go through those series of municipal traffic lights. And it is a unique situation that you have, you know, a provincial highway at one end, a municipal roadway linking what I would suggest is sort of important federal infrastructure. And so my request to them, to the other levels of government was we need to sit down and figure this out. We need to figure out in the event that something like this were to happen again, how do we respond and, you know, sort of pull the template off the shelf that the response is seamless, that it's not, you know, a day or two here trying to figure out how many folks we need, and who's going to do what, and who should take the lead, and then ultimately, who's paying for it. You know, so the City of Windsor has carried all of the water. We're paying all of the bills, $5.3 million for the, you know, execution of this particular police action, which was absolutely necessary, but I would submit is completely unfair that the City of Windsor is shouldering those costs. It was not a typical municipal policing matter. In fact, it was a national, economic emergency. And we responded appropriately. The Windsor Police did a great job. The OPP did a great job. The RCMP, they all worked very well together, but we need to figure this out moving forward because the Ambassador Bridge is not going away, our municipal road's not going away and the 401 is not going away. So what does this look like in the future, and that was my request to them is to sit down and try and figure out how we do this together in the future to eliminate any sort of delays that might be inherent in the way we moved in February.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And have you had any response back?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So can you give us a sense for the impact of the blockade, specifically on the auto sector, in Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, it was, you know, almost immediate. Again, within the first hour, our largest employer called saying, "What's going on?" The very next day, on February the 8th, they suspended some of their manufacturing operations and it was intermittent during the week of the blockade. We also had part suppliers that basically stopped producing parts because they had nowhere to send them, and they don't stockpile large quantity of parts. And, you know, there was a huge, huge impact in the auto sector. But don't forget, even on -- in Essex County, you know, City of Windsor is plus or minus 230,000 people. If we take the neighbouring county, and we're part of that county, just not part of their government, it's about 450,000 people total in that area. We have the largest greenhouse operation in North America, second in the world next to Holland. And so a full 80 percent of all greenhouses in Canada are in Essex County. And so the produce that is produced in those facilities that operate 24/7 365, the vast majority of it is exported to the United States through the Ambassador Bridge. And so the regional impact, which we cannot discount, was material. It was major. And, you know, having folks idle, having plants idle is not good just for our economy. It also had an impact on the U.S. side because of the integration of our supply chains. And so that's why we had folks from the United States, you know, senior leaders in the United States calling for an end to this as well and trying to push for a resolution because it was impacting their economy too.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what discussions did you have then with counterparts or others in the U.S.?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, I spoke with folks at Homeland Security but more from an operational perspective at the bridge, so the port director at the bridge, and I spoke with the Mayor of Detroit, you know, once during the blockade, just to sort of, you know, touch base because I was getting a lot of media questions about whether I'd spoken to the Mayor of Detroit, and I knew there really wasn't a whole lot that he could do, but I wanted to touch base with him. So, you know, we were trying to resolve this situation. There wasn't a lot that I think could be provided from the U.S. At one point, we did have an overture from the Governor of Michigan's office to provide tow trucks. I think she made a comment to the media and then folks brought that to our attention. And when we reached out and had a conversation with her Chief of Staff, it really wasn't that the State of Michigan had tow trucks, they just offered to facilitate an introduction to tow truck companies that may be able to provide the support.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
I see. Any other discussions with U.S. folks?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to take you to WIN00001628. And these are remarks that you gave. Now we're going back in time on February 9. But you said, at the bottom of -- sorry, the top of page 2, you said, "If Canada becomes known as a difficult jurisdiction to do business with -- to move goods in and out, for example -- then supply chains will evolve and reconfigure to remove this element of risk and avoid Windsor-Essex." What were you basing that information on?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I think everyone is aware now, so I can contextualize this a little differently than I could at the time, everyone is aware now that the City of Windsor was successful in landing a $5 billion investment from LG -- a joint venture from LG and Stellantis. And so they're building the first Canadian electric vehicle battery manufacturing facility in the City of Windsor. All of that discussion, all of that work and the preplanning was well underway during the protest in February. It just hadn't been announced publicly. And so, in fact, the CEO of Stellantis Global went to Canada during this time to have a meeting with senior officials. And so this was me sending a signal, to the extent that any of those folks were watching, that we understand that this has to end, that we understand that you have a choice in terms of where you locate these facilities, and that we're doing all we can to try and move folks on. And that sort of plays into the whole injunction piece as well, that it's the public-facing part of it was that important, as was it important to make sure police had another tool that they could use. But I wanted to make sure that with respect to the folks, you know, early on here, we're in the very early part of sort of rolling out all of the pieces back in February for this major, major investment, I wanted to make sure that they knew very clearly that we were very -- taking this situation very seriously and applying all resources that we could from a municipal perspective to get this situation resolved, reflecting on the fact that, you know, did I think that the first Ford factory in Canada, 1904, I didn't think a 100-year or 120-year relationship was going to be eviscerated because of a 7-day event. But at this particular time, it was critical that I sent that signal and had them have me acknowledge that this is an important issue that needs to be resolved because it -- they were asking.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. And so were you concerned to some extent that the image or the viability of Windsor as a city to invest in might be compromised by this.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
One hundred percent because this investment that I’m talking about, we are fortunate and we worked very hard to get this investment, but there were options up the 401 in Ontario and there were lots of options across the border in the state of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky. And so I was determined on behalf of the city to make sure that that landed here, and we were at a very fragile point in the process that this could have been derailed. You know, if they had looked at this and taken a perspective that we don’t want this hassle, it’s just easier to do business in the United States, this is the type of event that could have derailed this major investment for Canada, for Ontario and certainly for the City of Windsor.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And in terms of impacts on residents, what impacts did the blockade have on the -- on city services, social services, medical services, transportation? What -- can you give us a sense?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, major. And so let me mention several. When this all started, EMS had to move an ambulance to the other side of Huron Church. They had to make sure that they could cover that part of the city. Our fire chief moved and deployed fire resources. There’s a fire station literally 100 metres from where the protestors were protesting, but it’s on the east side of Huron Church. They moved a truck to the west side to make sure that they could provide -- that they could get there and provide service to the west side of the city. The transit routes were disrupted. The natural flow of people back and forth and having Huron Church Road closed was significant because there are no grocery stores on one side of -- on the west side of Huron Church. They’re all on the east side. And a lot of folks have to take the bus. They don’t have their own car on the other side of -- the west side of Huron Church, and so they require the city system to be able to move around and live their daily lives. The University of Windsor. The University of Windsor is directly adjacent to Huron Church, directly adjacent to the Ambassador Bridge. The primary route that people in the City of Windsor would use to get to the University of Windsor is Huron Church Road. So 17,500 students that attend the University of Windsor. You have a high school that was actually in the protest zone, Assumption High School. It’s been there for probably 100 years. And so that school was directly impacted by the protest activity. And I mean, just -- those are just -- those are several, but the impact was material during the protest and then even after the protest because of the deployment of the jersey barriers along Huron Church Road had a direct impact to the hotels, the motels, the businesses, the small businesses, large businesses, grocery stores. You name it, they were impacted, including the high school, including the University of Windsor because everyone had to find another way around.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And you had mentioned that the cost to the city was over $5 million; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And most of that, I understand, was for the Windsor Police Service. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It really is a mix, and we certainly have welcomed any audit of those expenses. Some police services sent us a bill. Some police services didn’t. But we had to pay for the jersey barriers, we had to pay for overtime. There was a whole list of expenses that made up the $5.3 million that, you know, we are carrying that cost at this particular time.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Right. Because in addition to OPP and RCMP, there were several local police forces that came to assist; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct. And so Public Order Units, I know some were deployed from other parts of Ontario, but we contracted directly with the City of London. They have trained resources. They have a standard contract that they sent to us, I signed immediately. But that -- the provision of that service was $200,000, plus or minus. We had to feed people, you know. The Chief asked for 100 officers. I’m told that 500 showed up. Well, they may not have charged us -- some of the services may not have charged us for the salary and benefit costs, but we still had to put some of those folks up in hotels, we still had to feed them. We had to move them around. There were direct costs which we would welcome any other level of government to audit, but at the end of the day, it’s the residents and the City of Windsor who have -- who have carried the full share of those costs to date.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And just to be clear, the blockade on -- was cleared and the bridge reopened before the Emergencies Act was invoked. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
On the 14th, so the 13th around midnight into the 14th, I think the bridge opened around midnight on the 14th. So the Emergencies Act came -- was invoked some time on the 14th, so yes. The answer to your question is yes.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, great. So none of the measures in the Emergencies Act were used to clear the blockade since it came after; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions for you. Thanks.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. So I think this is probably a good time for the morning break, so we’ll take 15 minutes and then come back to continue.
The Registrar (POEC)
The Commission is in recess for 15 minutes. La commission est lever pour 15 minutes.
Upon recessing at 11:34 a.m.
Upon resuming at 11:51 a.m.
The Registrar (POEC)
Order. À l’ordre. The Commission is reconvened. La commission reprend.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Ready to go?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
MAYOR DREW DILKENS, Resumed
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. So now if I could call on the Democracy Fund to go first.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ANTOINE D’AILLY
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Mr. Commissioner. Good morning, Mayor. My name’s Antoine D’Ailly; I’m counsel of Citizens for Freedom, representing the peaceful protestors in Windsor, Ontario. First of all, my congratulations on your recent re-election. I understand we heard earlier that you’ve been the Mayor and the Chair of the Police Services Board since 2014. But you also served prior to that in the capacity as a City Councillor; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And when did that start?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
December 2006.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so since your tenure of December 2006 would you agree that you have got some significant influence and connections within the City of Windsor, and are a central point of contact for organizations, such as the University of Windsor, the businesses in the area, and that you wield quite a bit of political influence?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would say that as a Mayor, certainly you’re in touch with a lot of different people in the community; businesses, residents, and institutions as well.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so in -- just in terms of the division of the powers, because I understand you do wear several hats, one being, again, the Chair of the Police Services Board. In your capacity as Chair, you said that it is not the Board’s responsibility to direct the activities of the police; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct. We don’t direct police operations.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Would you say that you influence what tactics and methods they may use?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And when it comes to requests for resources, is that usually something that comes from the police to -- and that request is made to the Police Services Board, or is the Police Services Board itself making requests for resources and things like that from the City?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
We go through an annual budgeting exercise. So the Chief presents a budget to the Board, we go back and forth until we land on something that ultimately gets approved by the Board, which is then sent to City Council -- well, sorry; I’ll speak slower. A budget approved by the Windsor Police Services Board is then sent to Windsor City Council for approval. And the Chief would lay out, in the budget document, what is needed for each department. If something extraordinary happens, if there’s a -- an expenditure or a request outside of the normal budgeting process, the Chief would then make a request to the Windsor Police Services Board, and the Board would make whatever decision they felt appropriate.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. And in your capacity as Mayor as well, I presume that you also had regular communication over the last couple of years, leading up to the pandem -- to the protests, with the Windsor-Essex County Health Unit and the Chief Medical Officer of Health of the region; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Frequent, yes. Not daily, but there have been more -- there has been more contact during the pandemic between my office and the Health Unit than any other time that I can recall.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And would you say that over the last two years that there was, in that increased communication, is it typically the City seeking guidance from the Windsor-Essex County Health Unit, or is it that, you know, these decisions are being made together in a collaborative fashion; what’s that relationship between you and the Chief Medical Officer of Health in the in the area?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
They have very distinct roles as spelled out in legislation, and so there are often times -- because none of us have ever lived through a pandemic before, or at least most of us haven’t, there are times where during the pandemic we’ve tried to sort out a course of action with the Health Unit, to have a better understanding of where the Medical Officer of Health may land on a certain topic. But, ultimately, my experience with the Medical Officer of Health is they may give you an impression or some guidance, or some, you know, opinion, but ultimately, they left it to the City to make every decision.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so would it be fair then to say that, typically, the recommendations -- because we saw a number of section 22 Orders issued by the Health Unit, that they were the subject to protests that led up to the demonstration at the bridge. Would it be fair to say that the recommendations of the Medical Officers is -- is the medical advice, and that the actions of the City Council, in terms of the bylaws and the Orders that are being passed, are more of the political aspect of that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, the Medical Officer of Health independently makes any orders that he makes; it’s not dependent on us in any way. And then, of course, City Council passes bylaws, resolution, and policy which is our normal governance role.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. And just in terms that Community Control Group, so am I correct that this community -- is it Community Control or Corporate Control Group?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Community Control.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And the Community Control Group, they met during the week of February 11th on a daily basis, 9:30 every morning; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t know if it was every day, but we met very frequently.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did you attend all of those meetings personally, whether remotely or in person, or did you rely on others to communicate and relay to you the information that was discussed during those meetings?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I’d have to look at the minutes themselves for each day. I attended several but there may have been a time where I didn’t attend. And if I didn’t tend -- attend, my Chief of Staff, Andrew Teliszewsky, would have attended.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so I presume, then, that the days that you did not attend those briefings about the bridge you had other priorities to attend to at the time.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And I guess you had an understanding that, you know, whether it’s your Chief of Staff or the Police Services, or whoever else attending those meetings was in control of that situation, and that your immediate attention on that was not required; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, the CCG does a good job at providing one source of information to multiple people so we’re on the same page. But it’s not exclusive. And so I may have had, on any given day -- not may have; probably more than five conversations every day with the Chief of Police about the activity that was happening in Windsor related to the Freedom Convoy. And so it didn’t mean if I didn’t -- wasn’t in that particular meeting that there was an absence of information because there was great communication throughout the City, great communication inter-governmentally at the time and for the duration of the protests.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And when you speak of the duration of the protests; is it fair to say that, as Mayor of Windsor, part of your role and responsibility is not only to represent the majority of citizens that elect you but also the minority opinion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I represent ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Would you consider ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- the City of Windsor. And so certainly I absolutely represent the people in the City of Windsor.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so would it be fair to say that part of your role and responsibility, then, is to attend to those minority -- those minority opinions and views, or at least take them under consideration, particularly when there’s active protests in the city?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Of course. You would consider what’s being said on social media, you would try to understand the perspective; and, as we did here, trying to find a resolution. Trying to get this thing over with so we could open the route to the border crossing.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Right. And I understand that you testified earlier that you at no point in time actually went down and spoke with the protesters at the Ambassador Bridge protest; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
In terms of the leadership, were you aware that many of those attendees had also been protesting on almost a weekly basis since 2020 down at the Great Canadian Flag?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
You were not? As Mayor, are you typically informed by somebody within the City’s apparatus of the protests that are happening?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Only if it was exceptional. So for example, if there was a protest on the lawn of City Hall today between 4:00 and 5:00, I may never be given notice of that. I may walk out and see the protest, but it’s not normal that for sort of a general protest, which probably happens every week in some form, that the Mayor’s office would get notice of that.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. So you say that you didn’t receive notice of, you know, the anywhere between 25 to 50 people that gathered almost on a regular basis every weekend on at the flag; you say you were not aware of those.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Oh. Oh, I was notified of frequent protests at the flag, but I think your question was, was I aware that people who are at the protest at the flag were also part of the protests of the Freedom Convoy. I can’t create that connection.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And in the information that you received about those weekly protests leading up to the Ambassador Bridge, were you able to identify any of the organizers or the leaders of those protests?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did you at any point communicate the names or identities of those leaders to the Windsor Police Service or anybody else within the City?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I didn’t have to because the police were attending those functions independently.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so you saw the interaction with the protestors, or at least the leaders of those protests as more of a policing matter than a political matter?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well the -- and I don’t know if it was weekly. I don’t think it was weekly protests at the flag, but, you know, going back to when they started the protests at the flag, with respect to COVID restrictions, there were points where the gatherings were illegal; they were contrary to provincial legislation, at a minimum. And so police were there because you, again, had illegal activity, but you also had members of the public who are saying, “Why aren’t you guys doing anything about that?” Why are you letting this illegal activity happen when we have to follow the rules, we are following the rules, and clearly this behaviour is not following the rules? It’s illegal. Why are you not taking action?
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Right. Would you agree with me that over the course of the two years, those protests were building? There were many changes to the legislation and there was different times where perhaps the number of people allowed at one of those protests was within the bounds of law, and other times, you know, there could be further restrictions in terms of the number of people that could gather, and that that was a fluid situation, and that not all those protests were legal?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t know, because I wasn’t receiving a debrief after every time folks gathered at the flag to protest covid restrictions. So I can’t help you with an answer there, because I just don’t know.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Is it fair to say that in the protests leading up to the Ambassador Bridge, there were multiple occasions where there was a far bigger turn out of protestors and demonstrators than ever appeared at the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I’m aware of, I forget the fella’s name, but he had notoriety online and came to Windsor a couple of times. And that seemed to generate more activity at the flag when he came. Chris somebody, I think. But I can’t remember his full name. But anyway, this person, when he came to Windsor, and there was at least two occasions that I’m aware of, more people seemed to gather on those two occasions over two years.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did I hear you correctly earlier that your understanding of the composition of the protestors is that many of those at the bridge were locals and it was not all from out of towners, and to the extent there were people from out of town, a lot of them were coming from Toronto and other places in southwestern Ontario, rather than Ottawa?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, so my understanding was about 50/50, from the Chief.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And so then, as your role as part of the CCG, would you say that part of your responsibility was communicating with the other branches of government, whether it was, I think we saw some text messages earlier with Minister Mendicino, with the Solicitor General in the province. So one of your key responsibilities was being that spoke on the wheel to these other government agencies? Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And our local Members as well. Members of Provincial Parliament and Parliament.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so can you just explain, who is Brian Masse?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
He’s the NDP Member of Parliament for Windsor West, which is the area where Huron Church Road and the Ambassador Bridge is located.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did you have much correspondence or communications with him during the Ambassador -- well, during the time leading up to the Ambassador protest?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Leading up -- I mean, I’m in frequent contact with him. About that particular issue, I don’t recall any conversations specifically about the protests that were going on. But when it happened, I did have communication with him once it set hold in Windsor.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Can we just pull up a document here, WIN00001659? So, Mayor, we heard earlier that you said, you know, the traffic at the Ambassador Bridge is of particular economic importance, at every hour of every day there’s goods and services crossing that border, and that in your opinion, a significant interruption to those products and services flowing across the border is of economic importance. Did I hear you correctly on that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And I believe Mr. Masse -- if we can scroll down here on this letter? Appears to be dated February 9th to many of the other Federal Ministers. And if we scroll down, if you look at the top of the second paragraph there, it says that: “Traffic disruptions along the road corridor to the Ambassador Bridge are not uncommon…” Do you have any idea of what Mr. Masse is referring to here?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t. I mean, unless he’s talking about just sort of general construction that happens on Huron Church Road, which is, you know, a requirement on any road, I’m not aware of any major disruptions.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. So I understand that in your capacity as mayor, you may not hear about every protest that’s going on in Windsor, but do you recall a protest in March 20th of 2019, I think this was during your tenure, where a gentleman named Edy Haddad -- is that name familiar to you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And who is Edy?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Edy is a Windsor resident. Recently ran for city councillor and has run several times in the past.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you share my understanding that he’s also currently the Chair of the Liberal Party of Canada in the Southwest Division?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don’t know if he holds that position.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did you ever receive any indication that he was also the Chair of the Essex Federal Liberal Riding Association?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I have no idea if he is or not.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Do you recall hearing a statement from him on March 20th, 2019 in relation to a protest dealing with funding for the university that apparently led to a temporary blockage of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor and Mr. Haddad’s quote saying that: “We’re going to continue to shut down the bridge at every protest we do until they reverse the cuts.” Do you recall that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
So in addition to construction, do you recall any other interruptions to the flow of goods and services across the border at the Ambassador Bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Over what period of time?
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Well I’d say most recently, is it true that on October 3rd of 2022, both the Ambassador Bridge and the Windsor Tunnel were shut down for a marathon?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, that happens every year.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
That happens every year?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And is it your understanding that as part of that planning, both the bridge and the tunnel were completely shut down to commercial and pedestrian traffic for a period of time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct. It’s the Detroit Free Press Marathon that happens every year. So it’s very well defined, very well prescribed, and the entire community on both sides of the border knows it’s going to happen.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Right. And were you also aware of a CBSA strike and protest in support of that over some wages or the fact that they had been working without a contract that caused some major slow downs and disruptions at the bridge in August of 2021, as I understand it?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I wasn’t aware of any major disruptions at the bridge, but ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
So would it be fair to say then that this particular protest that happened in February of 2022 was not the first protest that impacted the free flow of goods across the border at the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well I would say it was the most unique and caused a complete shut down of traffic to the Ambassador Bridge. The others that you’re trying to compare to are very distinct and different.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And different, but also insignificant to the point that you don’t recall them as a major event? Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Exactly.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Now, you’d indicated that, for example, the Detroit Marathon that happens every year, it’s well planned, it’s well thought out, so all parties kind of have notice that this is happening. Would you agree with me that the primary concern, perhaps from the City’s perspective, as to this particular protest in February of 2022 was the uncertainty in terms of how long it might last and, you know, whether or not the City, or the Province, or even the Federal Government had the resources to handle that type of demonstration?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, we didn’t know whether the slow roll was ever going to become permanent. That wasn’t - - we weren’t certain on that. And how long was it going to last? It was a complete closure. The other ones were very time limited for very discrete events, and this was something that, you know, there was no known end date.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And when you say it was a complete closure, are you aware of briefings through that CCG group where at various times there was certainly at least one lane open or two lanes open to allow traffic and at least emergency vehicle access?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well again, I think I mentioned that this morning, that there were times when the Chief told me that they had regained control of one lane and they thought they were talking to someone who had authority as a group leader to make sure that they could have emergency access through one lane, but then that quickly did not last because one party was never in power to speak for the other parties and they decided to sort of block that lane. And that was part of the problem here, that this was, in many ways, a leaderless movement where, you know, there was no one specific to talk to, and no one responsible for the outcome of the entire group.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
I understand. And you spoke earlier too about, you know, constructions and other delays. And the importance of the just-in-time delivery system for many of the auto parts manufacturers locally. Would you agree with me that a slowdown or significant slowdown, whether it's construction or otherwise, would also have an impact, albeit not as severe, but certainly has an economic impact on the auto parts manufacturers?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not necessarily. And so as long as one lane is open in each direction and vehicles can move, that works. I mean, we could work with that over a short period of time to continue commerce back and forth and let healthcare workers get to work. That can continue, as long as one lane is open. That is what police were trying to do from the very beginning, was find a way to keep one lane open, allowing the protests to continue, the slow roll protest to continue but allowing one lane in each direction to be open so commerce could continue.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Right. And so traffic disruptions but the border still open. May we pull up POE.CFF I believe it's seven 0s 1. You could scroll down here and just notice the date that it's made, 13th 2019. And is this an accurate representation of Huron Church Line here? What are we looking at in terms of the nearest cross street where those traffic lights are?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would have to have you tell me that answer. I'm not sure.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Would it be fair to say that this was close to the Ambassador Plaza and that we're looking at roughly 2 to 300 metres, maybe a kilometre away from the mouth of the bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, that's correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And would you agree that this type of traffic and slow down is not unusual along that main corridor, in your experience since 2006?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would say that there is -- because of the number of trucks that use Huron Church Road, there is always the need for some form of repair, rehabilitationm or construction along that road.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
M'hm.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
We receive money from the provincial government under a program called Connecting Lights, which is designed to fund, repair and renewal of roads that are municipally owned by really serve a greater purpose, like Huron Church Road. And so this is an example of construction where traffic is continuing to move in both directions and there's construction happening today on that road that would look much the same, where it's disruptive but it does not stop international trade.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so you would agree with me then that this picture here in terms of the delays and the traffic is also emblematic and similar to the current state of the bridge since, let's say, the beginning of this summer?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, there is ongoing construction on another portion of Huron Church Road which would look similar to this as well.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Understood. I'd like to briefly touch on sort of who knew what when within the CCG. You had indicated earlier that you were made aware of some demonstrations in Sarnia and that there were the slow rolls happening in Windsor. But am I correct in saying that Chief Mizuno was not terribly worried about the slow rolls that were happening at the end of January, that was no particular cause for concern?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, she expressed to me that those were peaceful, that the vehicles continued to move, and international trade continued to move as well.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
All right. And were you also made aware that the OPP had shut down the highway junction at Highway 402 in an attempt to block either the west or eastbound traffic and to control that situation on or about February 6th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don't recall.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Can we put up document WIN00000041? And if we can scroll down -- and so this email, I understand, came from Joe Dedeckert. Do you know who he is?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
But would you agree with me that if we scroll up here that this was sent to a City of Windsor employee Carolyn Brown?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Looks that way, yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so you were never advised as to the contents of this email or this particular update that the OPP had shut down Highway 402?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I don't recall seeing that email.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
All right. If we could scroll down a little bit further there, that the OPP in fact shut down the highway and that no traffic was able to go westbound to the U.S. through Sarnia due to police action. Is that a fair assessment of the content of this email?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I think it speaks for itself.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. And so if we could pull up Windsor document 000000 and 39. And who is Andrew Ray?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's me.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And so were you informed then by Stephen Laforet -- and Stephen Laforet is the Windsor Chief of Fire; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And he also sits on the CCG?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so he notified you about the protest at Bluewater Bridge. He was informed that the -- by EMO that the 402 is now closed and it was closed by OPP and not by a blockade; is that -- were you made aware of this back on February 6th around 8 in the afternoon?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It looks like that email was sent to me, but I don't recall reading it.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And I think later in this document too that they say that they are trying to block off the Ambassador Bridge, or at least threatening to do so. Is that further down in this email? Oh, you can scroll up a little bit. "There is concern based on some limited intelligence the convoy will be or is heading to Windsor today. Earlier intel indicated that the bridge was going to be targeted on Monday." (As read) So would it be fair to say that on February 7th you had some intelligence that there may be an action at the Ambassador Bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think it was even earlier than that. And so I wasn't too concerned about -- I mean, I was interested in the Bluewater Bridge, but that's not within my scope of responsibility. But I think, you know, as soon as February 4th came when the Chief told me, and she actually elevated the fact that there was a slow roll protest, we started making arrangements that weekend. I think I mentioned this morning with respect to jersey barriers. We started making arrangements with respect to moving the tunnel bus. I initiated that action, trying to get the tunnel bus on the duty-free side, so that we would have a way to get healthcare workers through the tunnel in the event that there was a blockade at the tunnel as well. And so we didn't -- I mean, we started that particular weekend making arrangements, not knowing if the slow roll blockade or protest would ever become a full blockade.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And then if -- so after you were made aware of the potential action in Windsor, you basically left it to the Windsor Police Service to implement a plan and to deal with the possibility of a blockade; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, again, they had a role to play with respect to actions at the Ambassador Bridge. I was looking at other things as well, again, the tunnel bus issue, and making sure that, you know, the Chief had the resources she needed as things developed, making sure that they could respond very quickly, because we were watching what was happening in Ottawa. We were watching what was happening across the country, and we collectively wanted to make sure that we were finding best practices so as not to see that type of behaviour happen in Windsor as well.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. Can we pull up Windsor's -- WIN000002174? I believe these are the in-camera meeting minutes from February 8th, 2022, at 7 p.m. Do you recall being in attendance at this meeting?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And if we scroll down here, I believe it's on page 2 -- scroll down a little further. I think there's a quote that says that "At any point we can extend the circle of control." Do we see that here? Perhaps closer to the bottom of the page? All right. So that's Deputy Bellaire saying that "At any point we can extend the circle of control." What did you understand that to mean?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That if this escalated, they could expand the area in which they were going to provide enforcement.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And did you have any understanding in terms of what was within the circle of control on February 8th at 7 p.m.?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No. I mean, I had just assumed it would have been Huron Church Road, but I was never given a plan that delineated the boundary.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And I believe somewhere in here Chief Mizuno says as well that, "...[we] are ready to ask should we need assistance. [And that] the amount of assistance [...] will be dictated by what happens in the coming days." Do you recall hearing Ms. Mizuno -- or Chief Mizuno saying that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I believe that to be accurate.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Perfect. And if we can just pull up your witness statement, you said earlier no changes needed to be made. I believe this is WTS0000019. I believe in that document you said you weren't sure where the number 100 came from, referring to the request for additional officers.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I know where it came from. It came from the Chief to me, but I never asked her to sort of explain to me how she came up with a hundred. I simply asked her, "What do you need to help get this situation resolved?" She got back to me and said, "I need a hundred officers."
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. If we could pull up document WIN000002306 at pages 10 and 11?
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
I've been fairly liberal, but you're now well over your time, so you're going to have to - --
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
I thought we had 45 minutes here today.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
No, you have 25 minutes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay, I'll pick things up then. Okay, if we look at page 10, and we scroll down. On the right side, is that -- is the -- are the text messages that are darker, is that you to the Chief?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And is there that you indicate that: "We need to make an official request to the Province and Feds for the 100 officers."
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
So could you help me reconcile that? Was the request for 100 officers or the estimate of 100 officers did that come from you or did that come from the Chief?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Hundred percent it came from the Chief. Is that February the 8th?
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
If we can just ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
If we can see the date.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
--- scroll up. I believe --- Yeah, if we go up a little further ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Okay, just ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
--- I think there's a timestamp.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, there we go.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
It's February 8th in the evening; right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So February the 8th -- that's correct. And so February the 8th, the Chief had told me she needed 100 officers, which I amplified up to the Provincial and Federal Governments. What happened in the evening of February the 8th, my Chief of Staff, Andrew Teliszewsky, had a meeting with chiefs of staff at the federal level of government who asked that we put the request in writing.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Can we ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Teliszewsky then told me that we needed to put in writing. I sent it to the Chief saying, "We need to put this in writing."
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
So your testimony is that the request for 100 officers came directly from the Chief of Police and it was not at your direction?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Could we call up Windsor document 00002295. I believe these are text messages between the Mayor and Minister Mendicino. So if I've got the timeline correct here, so February 8th at 7:00 p.m., during the in-camera meeting, Chief Mizuno says: "We are ready to ask for assistance should we need it." (As read) Then later in that evening, you text her, and it appears to say, "probably about 100 officers." If we're looking at here page 4. So on Wednesday, the following evening, then, it appears that Minister Mendicino is under the assumption that the police chiefs, that would be Chief Mizuno, told the OPP Commissioner that they are not requesting additional enforcement resources. And you said that that was inaccurate?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I said "wrong" because it's completely contrary to the conversation that I had had with the Chief and that we had discussed with the Board.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And if we scroll down a little further here. You had indicated earlier, correcting your statement, that: "CBSA went to offer tow truck support to Windsor..." And then the local police was saying that that wasn't necessary, is that correct, or they weren't interested?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's Minister Mendicino's text to me.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Right.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And so what I said was that we were offered tow truck support, but it was -- and what CBSA offered to do is to find the pathway to allow tow trucks and tow truck drivers into Canada, which may not normally be admissible sort of as a matter of right. They agreed to work with us if we needed to bring in U.S.-based tow trucks to find a pathway to get them through the border so that they could be of assistance.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And so would it be fair to say, then, that the two parts of this conversation we saw you have having with Minister Mendicino, Minister Mendicino was incorrect about whether or not that Chief Mizuno had requested resources, and was also incorrect as to the type of assistance that was offered by CBSA?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think what happened, when I received that message from Minister Mendicino and my response was "wrong", I called the Chief immediately to make sure I understood what was going on. The Chief explained to me that in a conversation that she had had with Commissioner Carrique that at that precise moment in time they weren't asking for anymore because officers were coming in and she didn't know how many officers were coming in.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. Okay, and it was also your understanding, then, that there was a plan in place as early as February 10th to dismantle this protest; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I knew that officers were coming in. I did not know. The Chief could not tell me how many officers were coming in, nor was I aware of how long it would take to resolve the issue.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. Can we pull up WPS, I believe that's...
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
I'm going to have to stop you. You're now well over your time. So if you could wrap up, please.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Yeah. Okay, so am I allowed to just to show a couple of pictures here to make sure that we're on the same page in terms of what the enforcement action did look like on the -- February 13th? If we could pull up CFF0000009.
The Clerk (POEC)
Sorry, Counsel. Is that -- is there another digit after the nine?
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Not according to this note here. Okay, we can skip that one and look at CFF000000260 instead. And so those officers there, is it your understanding those are Windsor Police officers, or are those OPP?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I can't tell from the flash on their arm. It does not look like a Windsor flash, though.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
What about CFF000000261? Those appear to be officers on the roof. Do you know if those are Windsor Police or is that OPP?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I can't tell.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Can't tell? Okay. And you indicated you weren't sure exactly what time on either the 13th or the 14th that the bridge had been cleared completely. Do you recall reading a report from, again, I believe this is Chief of Fire Steven LaForet, that the blockade is clear and that all needs have been met. It's at 9:52 p.m. on February 13th.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I do recall that the, you know, the bridge had been -- the roadway had been cleared earlier than the bridge opened, and so they had to get the barriers in place. Once the people were moved out and the vehicles were moved out, they had to get the barriers in place before they could open the bridge, and then of course they had to make sure to notify everybody.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
But the area was secure.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
As secure as it could be, but there was a heightened state of alert on that particular day and for weeks afterwards.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. And just in terms of the intentions of some of those protesters there. I understand that you referred to what happened at the Ambassador Bridge almost as "The Last of the Mohicans" moment, and that when asked to clarify, you indicated that some people there were willing to die for that cause. Would you agree, based on some of your observations, that in the evenings, at least, there was a party atmosphere, that the vast majority of protesters there were not willing to be shot in the streets to maintain that protest, and that it was by and large absolutely peaceful?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I ---
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
(Off mic) That was a compound question that my friend has asked. I think it's an unfair question to the Mayor, and he hasn't provided any of these statements for him to see. I object to that question.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay, I'll move on there. And just to clarify, so Chief Pam Mizuno, she is no longer the Chief of the Police in Windsor, she announced her sudden retirement on March 22nd. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
She has retired, yes.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, I asked you ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And honestly ---
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
--- five minutes ago ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
--- I think I can wrap it up there. No more questions for this witness. Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Next, is the Government of Canada.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DAVID SHIROKY
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Good morning, Mayor Dilkens, Commissioner. David Shiroky for the Government of Canada. So in your evidence in-Chief through the Commission Counsel you had indicated the City had supported an Interim Injunction that was granted on the 11th of February. I'd like to pull up the reasons for that interim injunction, which I think can be found at a number of places, but OTT00007333. And as that's being pulled up, you'd indicated in your evidence in-Chief that there was concerns about vigilantism leading up to enforcement and that was a factor that went into seeking the injunction. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Where were these concerns coming from?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Social media, for sure. A Facebook group had been set up. We had local labour leadership that was being very vocal about gathering a group of people and going down there and ending this blockade. And so it was -- it was a theme that I would suggest had a head of steam fairly early on because everyone appreciated the impact of what was going on here.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And were you aware of any organized efforts either through that social media or through announcements through the official groups?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I’m aware that there was a discussion with police that had people lower the temperature, people who were purporting to want to do that to lower the temperature and just let us resolve this in a peaceful way.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so we have the document open which are the reasons that were for the injunction granted on the 11th of February, and specifically I’d like to go to page 9 and, in particular, paragraph 46 of the decision. And so paraphrasing a bit, the Court finds that there’s no question that the blockade had caused and will continue to cause irreparable harm to Windsor. Would you agree that the harm that’s being discussed here by the Court and, in fact, the harm that the City of Windsor was talking about in supporting this injunction was the harm caused by a continuous blockade and not temporary increases in traffic?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
A hundred percent. The harm was economic harm to a lot of people in the community.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And is it your understanding that roughly around midnight either the night of the 13th or the 14th, the blockade was cleared and the bridge reopened to traffic?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And with respect to the timing of that enforcement, in your evidence in-chief you indicated that there was a delay in enforcement due to the arrival of children at the protest.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
What were you hearing from police about the impact of the presence of children at the protest?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
What I heard from the Chief is they were going to stand on the Saturday night, resume enforcement on Sunday. You know, there were people live streaming on social media from the area, so I watched some of that as well, and media was there reporting. And you saw the numbers of protestors swelled dramatically, and it was all of a sudden you saw kids in strollers, you saw young kids. And it was, I would submit, in direct relation to the sort of call to support by the pastor in that one particular church.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
All right. And sort of in a similar vein, I’d like to take the witness to WIN00002238, please. And while that’s coming up, you’d indicated the city had asked for an extension of the interim junction and that was an indefinite extension. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And the document that we’re pulling up, again, are the Court’s reasons for granting that indefinite extension to the injunction. If we could go to page 8, in specific paragraph 47. And at the bottom there, I think it’s at (iv), the Court found that the City of Windsor had established a continued threat of a new blockade. And with respect to, again, the evidence and the submissions that were being brought to the Court to extend this injunction, is that the concern? Was it either a continued blockade or a re-emergence of the blockade?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes. More a re-emergence. I mean, at the time, obviously, it was -- it was to try and have everyone move on, but again, I think it’s -- I’ve said this several times. The heightened state of alert that everyone was under, that police were under following the removal of the protestors and their vehicles, I've never seen that in my city in the past. And so there was a strong concern that this would happen again, which would put us on a cycle of having, you know, another week of trying to move people out and mobilizing resources from across the province and across the country.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so the city provided a number of affidavits in support of this injunction extension, and I believe the application record from the city is at WIN00000925. And I won’t ask that that be brought up. It’s a very long document. I just would like to refer to it, that there was evidence provided that spoke to this continued risk of a blockade re-emerging. And so a document that I would like pulled up is WIN00000803. I’ll just wait for that to come up. Mr. Mayor, what are we looking at here in terms of geographically within Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The yellow line is Huron Church Road, and the Xs are intersections that access Huron Church Road.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
If we could scroll down briefly. So there’s an indication there are no local traffic beyond this point, and that’s the period -- you spoke of sort of a tunnel. I know there is a literal tunnel, but the tunnel leading down Huron Church Road to the Ambassador Bridge, that’s the area you’re speaking of?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct. Once you pass that red bar where it says “no local traffic”, you basically had to get on the Ambassador Bridge.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And if I told you that this was a map of the traffic structure on the 16th of February, would that sound about right to you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
So this was a closure of a major municipal road in Windsor, wasn’t it?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And it impacted residents in nearby homes and neighbourhoods.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Massively.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And you’d indicated the specific neighbourhood of Sandwich Town as being to the west of Huron Church Road.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And there were no access to groceries for the residents of Sandwich Town as a result of the blockade and then the subsequent closure of the road.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
They had to take a very long route to get to the same grocery store that they would normally get to.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so the city had to provide alternative bus services to those residents so that they could go about their lives.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
And we did, yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And you would agree with me that the city and the police would not choose to continue to limit access by residents to Huron Church Road unless it believed there was a real risk that a demonstration could return.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And I know you said that you were uncertain on the date at which point these traffic closures stopped, but you would agree with me that the measures to prevent the re-establishment of a blockade remained in place after the 23rd of February?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
So Commission counsel took you to WIN00000972. And I’d actually like that to be brought up, please. And I’ll take you to a similar portion where you refer to it remaining a national security situation. If we could scroll down, there’s bolded text. There it is. And so this is the situation that, again, it says here, “prevented reopening Huron Church Road”, and that’s the closure we were just looking at on that map.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
If we could go to page 3. And so it says here, “We cannot ignore these ongoing threats because of the inconvenience that’s being caused along Huron Road Church.” With respect to these “ongoing threats”, can you speak a little bit about -- I know you said the information was coming from police, but what were you hearing during that time period?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
There were, for several weeks -- I mean, immediately, once the jersey barriers were put in and access to the bridge was made available, there was a high state of alert for police. There was still a huge police presence along Huron Church Road, and there was a strong concern expressed to me by Chief Mizuno that there was a concern that this could flare up again. And that lasted for several weeks. It lasted, in fact, you know, until the situation was dealt with in Ottawa and the thought was that when Ottawa -- the protest in Ottawa was disbanded that folks would get in their trucks and come back to Windsor. So this lasted for quite some time.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so you referred in the statement to it being a national security situation. Did you see the events in Windsor as being connected, ideologically or otherwise, to other events happening nationally?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah. I mean, certainly, you know, watching what happened in the U.S. where there were Freedom Convoys in the U.S. and that happened in several cities, that was concerning. Seeing what happened in Ottawa, that was concerning. Knowing the money that was being reported with respect to flows from those -- the Give Send Go or whatever it’s called, GoFundMe, that was concerning. And so there were lots -- there was no shortage of concern, and this was, in my mind, and will remain until I’m long gone, a national economic emergency. And that is a direct -- there is a direct correlation to a national economic emergency and, I would submit, to a national security issue. This is exactly what this was.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And with respect to the specific topic of security, were you aware of the arrests that took place in Coutts, Alberta in the 14th of February?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And how did you become aware of those?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Through traditional media.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And what’s your understanding of those events?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That police were able to intercept a group of people who had weapons that intended to do harm to others, and they were part of the protest in Coutts, Alberta.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And acknowledging, of course, that Coutts is quite geographically distant from Windsor, Ontario, reading that with respect to, again, talking about security, were there any concerns that were raised in your mind at that time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You know, I would say that what -- for my impression, what I saw happen in Coutts, was the type of behaviour that police were posturing for here, the type of behaviour they thought may play out here. And I think that played out in the posture that they presented and the way that they handled themselves in Windsor. And so the Coutts' situation happened after the fact, but there was that level of temperature on the ground where police in Windsor were quite concerned and did not want to inflame the situation. They were taking every opportunity to de-escalate a highly charged situation.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so you said both in your evidence in-Chief and in your witness statement, your understanding or belief that the invocation of the Emergencies Act sent a signal that the federal government was taking the blockade situation seriously.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I agree with that.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And that it may have discouraged the reestablishment of the blockades, particularly with respect to the Ambassador Bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I agree with that fully.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And that's -- is that still your view?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Moving on to economic issues, I'd like to take the witness to SSM.CAN00000495_REL, and in particular, page 2. And while that's coming up -- well, actually, we'll start on page 1, just so we can identify the document. Now this is likely not something you've seen. This is a backgrounder report with respect to the impact of the road blockade on the Ambassador Bridge that I believe was prepared by Finance Canada. So if we move to page 2 -- the reason I'm bringing this up -- if we scroll down, now there's a discussion here about both the exports, and I think the exports have been well covered in your evidence. What's your understanding about the items or goods that are imported from the United States into Windsor?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I don't know that I have a discreet -- I don't know that I have discreet knowledge on the imports versus the exports, and I would just say that with respect to the trade that we see regionally in our community, or at least locally in my city, there is -- I go back to the parts that cross the border six to seven times before they're put into a vehicle that rolls off the assembly line. It speaks to the tightly integrated supply chains that we have in Windsor and Detroit, which are -- respectively, our own auto capitals of our countries.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so going back to the report in the last paragraph that's on the screen there, it speaks to Canada importing $4 billion worth of pharmaceutical products and $2.4 billion in medical equipment that go through the Ambassador Bridge and that was in 2021; is that a figure that would be surprising to you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No. I believe that.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
You also mentioned the bridge's impact regionally. Would you agree with me that the imports that come in through the bridge don't stay in Ontario in their entirety?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
In their entirety, no.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And that it's part of a national supply chain?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
One hundred percent agree with that statement.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
I'd like to now take the witness to WIN00001628. And this is a statement that my friend -- Commission Counsel took you to earlier that was delivered on the 9th of February. And if we could scroll down to, I believe, the top of the second page. So it's the statement here again that, "If Canada becomes known as a difficult jurisdiction to do business with -- to move goods in and out, for example -- then supply chains will evolve and reconfigure to remove this element of risk and avoid Windsor-Essex." And was that your concern at the time with respect to Canada, or Windsor specifically's reputation as a place to do business?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It was part of the concerns for the reason that I mentioned, and they actually play out in part of the conversation, the read out which has been submitted in terms of documents, my read out with my conversation with the Prime Minister where I even raise the issue of the battery factory in that conversation with him. And so there is no doubt that we must tread very lightly with respect to these types of incidents as they relate to our competitive position, not just as a City of Windsor, but provincially and nationally because we are competing against Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee for these types of investments. And you've seen big auto makers make investments in those states, and we knew that we were fourth in goal, to quote a football term, on landing this battery factory, and so I needed to make sure that the signal was sent to those who would be interested in this, that we take this very seriously and we're going to resolve this very seriously and very quickly.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Oh, acknowledging that I'm just at my 15 minutes, if I could just briefly take the witness to one more document and wrap up would that be acceptable? Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Go ahead.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
It's PB.CAN. -- sorry, yeah, .00000023_REL. And while that's coming up, I'll provide some context. This is another document that you may not have seen. It's a February 10th email chain between employees of the Canadian Embassy in Washington, D.C. and the Consulate General in Detroit. And specifically, I'd like to go to page 2. These are a series of Tweets from a U.S. representative Slotkin, who I understand is the congressional - eighth Congressional District Representative in Michigan. And I -- if the Commissioner will allow, I'd like to give the witness some time to read. There's a series of Tweets that go down the page, so if you could take a look and let the Clerk know when you can scroll a bit further.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
You can keep scrolling.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
It's the upside of a Tweet is at least they can be read quick.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah. Just underscores -- those statements underscore my explanation.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And so you would understand these statements to be a political representative from the U.S. saying that we would need to move manufacturing to the U.S. as a result of incidents like the blockade at the Ambassador Bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's absolutely correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And my friend with Commission Counsel took you to some texts that you had with Premier Ford, and in the interest of time, I won't ask that they be brought up again, but do you recall him texting you that he had every major company all over him?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Do you understand what he meant by that statement?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely I do.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
What was your understanding of that statement?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That this was not just companies in Windsor or companies in Essex County, that this bridge and this border crossing has -- it's of provincial and national significance. So when it's blocked, he gets phone calls from major manufacturers all the way up the 401.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
At the risk of pushing my luck, Mr. Commissioner, if I was to add two more questions?
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Go ahead.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Thank you very much. You would agree with me that a blockade at the Ambassador Bridge would be more economically damaging than blocking the Detroit/Windsor tunnel?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
And that an experienced truck driver would know that they could not use the tunnel?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
David Shiroky, Counsel (GC)
Those are all my questions. Thank you very much for that indulgence, sir.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Next the Convoy Organizers.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BRENDAN MILLER
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Good afternoon.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Good afternoon.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
For the record, Brendan Miller. I appear as Counsel for Freedom Corp., which represents the protesters that were in Ottawa in January and February of 2022. Good afternoon, sir, again, and thank you for appearing here today. My first question is, is prior to you taking on your current office, your former office, what did you do in -- as a job prior?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I'm a lawyer as well.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
You're a lawyer as well?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
And I take it you didn't ever work at national security law; did you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, sir.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
All right. And so it's fair to say you're not a national security expert and you don't have background on what constitutes a national security emergency; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would say that I've never practiced national security law, but there are some things on the face of it that present themselves and I think would be obvious to everyone, could be related to national security.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right. And when it comes to national security, I take it you rely a lot on law enforcement, is that correct, with respect to providing you information?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right. And in your capacity, of course, municipally, that's primarily going to be your municipal police force and the OPP?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Mostly municipal police.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Mostly municipal police.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right. And can you agree, if -- you've said you have some of an understanding of national security, so you're familiar with the Canadian Security Intelligence Service?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, sir.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
And what's your understanding of what they do?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, they have their own Act, and certainly, I'm sure it's well spelled out in the Act, that if you brought it up, we could go through it but ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Yeah, but you agree with me that there's the Federal Intelligence Service, sort of the Canadian equivalent to the CIA; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. And so the intelligence they gather with respects to threats to the security of Canada, can you agree with me that they would probably have the best information?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I think they're certainly a good source. I think RCMP would also be a great source as well from a policing perspective and ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. Could we please bring up a document, I've sent an email about it, arising from my friend's cross. TS.NSC.CAN.001.00000206_REL_0001.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Jennifer King for the City of Windsor. Commissioner, we received an email it appears from my friend, Mr. Miller, less than 15 minutes ago with three documents that he ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
If I can assist, I’m only referring to the one. That’s it.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
In event, we had notice of these documents. It’s contrary to the rules. We haven’t had any notice that he intends to put this to Mayor Dilkens.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Mr. Miller, I got the document the first time ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Yes. And it only arose from cross-examination from my friend, as I made clear in my email. Not from Steve Windsor, not from the Commissioner, but from my friend with the Federal Government, which made it relevant.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Well let’s see what the document is, and if there’s a problem, either the witness needs time, or if counsel for Windsor has ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
--- an objection, we can deal with it.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Now, sir, this is a document from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service summarizing what it is they discussed with Cabinet regarding threats to national security. If we could just scroll down to page 5, please? Okay. So I just want you to see that. So on that document there: “On February 3rd, CSIS assessed there’s no indicators that known IMVEs [and I take you know what that is] actors were planning to engage in violence.” (As read) And then if you scroll down to the other bullet point, it states: “On February 13th, CSIS advised that the implementation of the EA would likely galvanize the anti-government narrative within the convoy and further radicalize some towards violence referring tot eh increase in violence rhetoric following the declaration of the State of Emergency in the Province of Ontario. Furthermore, CSIS advised that…” (As read)
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Slow down for ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Yeah. Thank you. “Furthermore, CSIS advised that the invocation of the EA by the Federal Government would likely lead to the dispersing of the convoy within Ottawa, but would likely increase the number of Canadians who hold extreme anti-government views and pushed some towards the belief that violence is the only solution to what they perceived as a broken system and government. Following the invocation of the EA, CSIS briefed Cabinet and reiterated the potential for the EA to increase anti- government views and violent ideologies, including in those not yet radicalized.” (As read) Now, can you agree with me that you would never want to do anything that could create further radicalization of extremists within the City of Windsor? Is that fair?
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
I’m going to object to this question on this document ---
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Withdrawn.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
--- and object to this document being put to the Mayor.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Withdrawn. I’m done. Thank you, sir.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next is the City of Ottawa. You can get started, if you’d like, and we’ll -- seems to always happen that the City of Ottawa to be at lunch time.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. ANNE TARDIF
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Good afternoon, Mayor. My name is Anne Tardif. I’m one of the lawyers for the City of Ottawa. You mentioned in your testimony, and I think in your witness summary, that you had calls with both the Solicitor General, Sylvia Jones, for Ontario, and the Federal Minister of Public Safety, Minister Mendicino; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And you were requesting additional police resources, and I should say that you were amplifying the request that your chief had alerted you to. Fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. And you mentioned that the Federal Government in particular was very supportive?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
So was Minister Jones.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Both were very supportive. Fair enough.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Both were great.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And I take it that staff -- if I understood you correctly, staff at the federal level asked that your request, or the request for additional resources be put in writing? Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And we saw the letters that Chief Mizuno sent further to that request to both the Provincial and the Federal Government; right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s right.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And I take it they were sent more or less at the same time? Fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Is it fair to say then that no one at the Federal Government said to you, “You’ve got to go to the Province first. You’re not following proper protocol,” or anything of that nature?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well they didn’t say, “Don’t send me the letter, but, you know, there was a conversation that the order of operations is Municipal to Provincial, Provincial to Federal. But, you know, the nature of what was happening here, and the nature of what was going on across the country, we knew -- I think a sensible person would know that there’s limited resources and they’re being drawn to assist in different areas, that from my chair and my perspective, and I think it’s fair to say from Chief Mizuno’s perspective, we didn’t care whether it was the OPP or the RCMP that arrived. We just needed more boots on the ground to help resolve the issue.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Perfect. Thanks very much. If I could bring up WIN00000410? And while this is coming up, Mayor, it’s an email exchange between Jason Reynar? Am I pronouncing that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, you are.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. At the City of Windsor, and Chief Laforet, who I understand is the Fire Chief in Windsor and was also the Chair, if I understood correctly, of the CCG?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And if we scroll down to the bottom? There’s the email from Mr. Reynar to the entire Corporate Leadership Team, including, of course, Chief Laforet. And he’s advising that the injunction has been granted and will “…come into effect at 7 PM tonight…” which is Friday, February 11th; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And if we could scroll down, Mr. Clerk? He says: “But these advancements may have the effect of ‘ratcheting up’ the protestors (and their supporters). We will be watching closely to see what developments happen over the next 24 hours.” And it goes on from there. So this concern about ratcheting up the protestors with the issuance of an injunction was something I take it that the City was aware of on the 11th?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well the City was, but the Chief, when I told her -- when I asked her, ---
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
M’hm.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- “We’re going to apply for an injunction. Do you think this would be helpful?” That was never a conversation or a concern that she expressed to me from a policing perspective. So our Fire Chief saying that, I’m not sure where -- you know, where he put that -- where he got that from to think of putting that in an email, but clearly, you know, we weren’t looking to ratchet things up. We were looking to resolve things in a sensible way.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And I take then your Chief reassured you that that was not a concern, or not one that she had at heart?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
She never expressed to me a concern about or drew a correlation between an injunction and the thought that we would be ratcheting up or escalating the situation.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Thanks very much. I understand, and we’ve heard already in your testimony that there was an original injunction time limited for 10 days obtained on February 11th, and that the City then moved to obtain an indefinite extension of that injunction; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And this will be the last document I’ll ask Mr. Clerk to put up, and it is WIN00000921. Mayor, this is the factum or the legal argument - - well you’re a lawyer, the factum, I guess I can use that word, that the City of Ottawa, if we scroll down just a little bit -- City of Windsor, pardon me, filed in support of the order -- seeking the order for an indefinite extension of the injunction. If we just scroll down, you’ll see it there. Factum of the intervening party, the corporation, and the City of Windsor. And if we could go to paragraph 2, Mr. Clerk? And before I take you through this, you’ve given ample evidence already about the concern that the City had about the possible resurgence of a blockade at the bridge if the injunction were to expire; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And I just wanted to draw this out. This is the argument put forth by the City of Windsor and it says: “The events in the days since the February 11[th] Order […] was made have reinforced the ongoing need for the injunction. Since the February 11[th] Order came into effect at 7:00 PM on February 11[th], 2022…” It’s paragraph -- subparagraph A: “Protesters defied the February 11[th] Order, with numbers increasing and peaking at between 600 and 800 individuals during the evening of Saturday, February 12[th], 2022…” And I take it that was information the City obtained from police?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And that was information that formed part of the City’s decision then to seek a continuation of that injunction?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Thanks very much, Mayor. Those are my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. So I think this is an appropriate time to take the lunch break. So we’ll take an hour and come back to continue the questioning.
The Registrar (POEC)
The Commission is in recess for one hour. La Commission levée pour une heure.
Upon recessing at 1:01 p.m.
Upon resuming at 2:01 p.m.
The Registrar (POEC)
The Commission is reconvened. La Commission reprend.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next up I believe is the Windsor Police Service.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. I am Tom McRae for the Windsor Police Service. We have no questions for Mayor Dilkens and give our time, if we may, to the City of Windsor. Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Former Chief Sloly?
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Thank you, Commissioner.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. TOM CURRY
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Mayor Dilkens.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Good afternoon.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
I am Tom Curry for former Chief Sloly of the Ottawa Police Service, and I just have a few questions for you, if I can have you assist the Commissioner. First things first, unprecedented in your experience both in politics and as a resident of Windsor.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And I think you told the Commissioner it was unlike anything you have ever seen in the roles that you’ve played, including as the Chair of the Police Services Board.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That is correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
All the way down to the death threats against you and presumably other members of your Council or the administration of the city. Is that true?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I -- there were threats to firebomb my house. I was -- my -- some of the folks put my home address online. People were driving by my house and police were there. So you know, there was -- that was that threat directly. The other threats were to protest, and I’m not aware of any other death threats to other members of Council.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And that’s a first -- an unpleasant first for you as well.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, I think it’s -- you know, I live with my wife and two kids, so it’s unpleasant to have someone threaten to come and firebomb my house.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
In -- Chief Sloly has told the Commissioner that this -- that the events in Ottawa represented a paradigm in protest as we have understood it in Canada. Do you share that view?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I can speak just from my perspective in the City of Windsor. And again, I would reiterate that this was different than almost anything else I can recall seeing in my entire time in the city, certainly my entire time as an elected official in the City of Windsor. And it was the temperature and the tenor and the aggressive nature of the actors that certainly caused everyone to respond in a different way and be far more calculated and concerned about the approach.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And I believe it’s also true that this is the first time that the Ambassador Bridge or other critical infrastructure in Canada, I suppose, has been used to - - by protestors -- the first time it’s ever been closed by a protest, first of all. Is that true?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That not true. There was a protest back in the early nineties, but there was an injunction granted very, very quickly to re- establish the route to the Ambassador Bridge so it did not last for a very long time.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay, got it. First time, I suppose, also as Chair of the Police Services Board that you have seen the Windsor Police Service unable to mount a police response with their own resources.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And that led you to -- as you have told us, that led you to engage with your provincial and federal and municipal partners along with Chief Mizuno to get the resources that you needed; right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s right.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And I think you also told the Commissioner that there were no impediments raised by the provincial or federal -- your provincial or federal counterparts at the political level to the -- to the obtaining of those resources. You put your hand up and said, “We need help” and they came to your aid. Is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yeah, that’s fair. I think they were responding to the best of their ability. Chief Mizuno did tell me that someone in the mechanism of -- or in the group of folks she was working with, the mechanism of the police order, that they had to figure out how to allocate resources in Ontario because we were not the only place experiencing a protest like this.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
At the time of the protest in Windsor or the blockage on the 7th of February, of course, Ottawa was -- had by then been -- choose the word, but I’ll use the occupy language. It had been occupied by protestors for several days by that time. You knew that.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And were you told or do you recall being told by the Minister -- I’m now referring to the Solicitor-General -- or the federal Minister that Windsor was the provincial and federal priority for the OPP and RCMP?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
All right. You did not know that Windsor by the 7th or soon after the 7th was identified by those partners as -- as their priority?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No one said that to me, but you know, because of the significant economic damage that was being caused, a reasonable person would say they need to fix this quick.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Understood. And you’ve -- you told us -- I think you told the Commissioner that these events in Windsor affected tens of thousands of Canadians. It would be -- it would not be an exaggeration to say it affected many more than that given the economics that you described. Is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It’s probably hundreds of thousands, if we’re being completely honest.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
You -- as the Chair of the Police Services Board, just a couple of questions about that, you -- whether as the Chair of the Police Services Board or as Mayor, am I right that you made public statements to provide information to the residents in Windsor and to the wider audience about the need for resources that you had requested?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not specifically. We did not go out and say we need 100 officers, but we did amplify the police request for additional officers so that the public knew that city, that police, that we were in harmony working together and we need additional support.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right. I saw -- tell me if my memory is right, but I thought I saw that on one -- in one of no doubt many interviews that you were giving at the time, I think it was to a CTV reporter, that you did identify the number that had been requested at the earliest date, I think being 100. Is it possible that you mentioned that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
If I made that mistake, it was corrected very quickly and it was not made twice.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay. Understood. And as well, am I right from the record that you held your police -- you decided as the Chair of the Police Services Board to maintain those meetings that you had with Chief Mizuno and her staff in camera?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
The Police Board meetings?
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Yes.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay. Now, can I just ask you, please, to look with us at one of those Police Services Board meetings that you showed my colleagues, and that is, for the registrar, Windsor, WIN2173. These are minutes, I think, Mayor, of the Police Services Board meeting. Just while that’s coming up, can I just ask you also, it seemed both listening to you and looking at the record that you made a conscious effort to have your Council and the Police Services Board speaking with one voice.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Very early on, my Chief of Staff, Andrew Teliszewsky, sent a message to City Council asking that any requests for media interviews, any public comments, any desire to post on social media that we really speak with a unified voice so that there was clarity and no confusion. And I must give City Council immense credit for doing that. They were very -- we worked very well in harmony together.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And am I right -- and again, for the Commissioner’s purposes as he considers recommendations, you faced enormous public pressure, didn’t you ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- to act and the Police Service experienced enormous public pressure to act.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And do you agree with me it was important and it would be important in the future for municipal leaders like you and Police Service Board Chairs like you to be disciplined about speaking with one voice and to have matters dealt with in camera?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That was extremely helpful. It was extremely helpful with communication to the public that they had one source of contact, that we weren’t stepping on each other in terms of messaging, and as a City Councillor there’s a great desire to respond to every complaint that’s coming in from residents, and we were all receiving them. And so by sticking together like we did, I think it was actually good for the public that they had cohesive communication, that it was checked and many times the public comments where we had public pressure conferences, those comments that I delivered were reviewed by the Chief of Police and her tea so that there was no -- there were no surprises when we delivered a message.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Understood. And am I right that the other thing that you did was you became the voice of the Unified Council Police Services Board and the City’s response; you were the spokesperson?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Spokesperson for the City, yeah.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right. Did -- in that role, did you take -- did you take some of the pressure away from the police service having to deal with those matters themselves or the chief herself?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Probably. I mean the most important point was that they were focused on the police operation and the communication to the public. Even as enunciated in our CCG, you know, duties and responsibilities, it’s the mayor’s responsibility to communicate with members of council, members of the public, members of the media, and so we just followed the roles were spelled out, and it worked very well.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Thank you. And while we’re on recommendations, you mentioned to the Commissioner that you had penned a letter to the -- to your federal and provincial counterparts concerning the expenses that Windsor has borne as a consequence of the blockade and, so far, no reply. But would you say that for -- in terms of recommendations, from what you have gone through, that what would be worth considering is a coordinated effort by all three levels of government to deal with these kinds of events in the future were they to arise again, including down to cost sharing?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely. These things should be spelled out so -- especially if you use -- the Ambassador Bridge is the perfect example, where you have federal responsibility, municipal roadway and municipal responsibility, and then connecting to provincial where there’s provincial responsibility, these types of things ought to be worked out. I’ll slow down. These things should be worked out in advance. Most importantly, who’s doing -- who’s paying for what because, at the end of the day, we’ve -- we are shouldering a big expense on the backs of the residence in the City of Windsor to deal with what I call “a national economic emergency”.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Understood. And then may I just get your help with this? What is on the screen now, 2173 -- that you, Mr. Registrar -- is the in-camera meeting of the Police Services Board, February 11th, so this is just shortly before the operation began on the next day, the 12th; is that true?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And Chief Mizuno is there; you’re there. Just scroll down if you don’t mind. I just wanted to have you help us with -- you asked if there was anything required. Chief Mizuno said, “No, resources are flowing. What are the outcomes?” and so on. Just scroll down. It’s just to page 2 that I wanted to -- stop there, please. Chief Mizuno, when asked about specifics, said: "The situation is still fluid. We are working on our operational plans and continue to review as new information such as this becomes available. The goal is to reinstate traffic on the bridge." Councillor asked a question about the injunction being enforced, and she said: "We are actively working on our plan." I won’t take you through the rest of it but do I have it that Chief Mizuno did not ever provide the Police Services Board with details of the operational plan which was, as of the 11th, still being actively worked on?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And is it true, also, that the absence of that finalized plan to be presented to the Police Services Board, or to anyone, did not impair or delay the delivery of resources from your policing partners at the provincial and federal level?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true. We -- the board was never waiting on the plan to be presented to us for some sort of receipt for information or approval. We knew -- the point was, does the chief have the resources to implement whatever plan is being prepared? And that was the question asked by the board.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Understood. And just two more things very quickly to have your help with, please. Could I please show the mayor WPS, lots of zeros, 522, Mr. Registrar, please? This is a Situational Update, Mayor Dilkens, and I just want to get your help for the Commissioner. In terms of the status of these -- the circumstances in which you found yourself as of the 8th -- this is at 14:30 hours -- you knew that these situational reports were being prepared and you would be briefed by the chief or her deputies?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I was not privy to this. I didn’t know that there were these particular reports, but the chief would share with me the things she thought I needed to know.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right. I just want to -- tell me whether you learned this information at any briefings, that there were 50 to 60 vehicles at that time. So this is the afternoon on the 8th and they’re described there, and this last sentence of that first paragraph: "One group is willing to work with police and open some lanes while the other is very oppositional and refuses to give up any ground. Propensity for violence is possible. Windsor police attempted to tow a vehicle. Drivers exited their vehicles with tire irons and threatened to assault the tow truck drivers. Officers blocked off traffic points leading to the demonstration." And then just scrolling down, there was -- you see: " The concern of the police is if they start to allow traffic into the area…" -- the one they’ve described -- " …there is a potential for many any additional supporters to join the demonstration." NA Does that -- is that the tenor of the tenor of the briefings that you were getting in and around that time?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, that’s true. That’s correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Including the risk -- the actual risk that there was a violent act threatened against tow truck operators with protesters using tire irons?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That specific incident was relayed to me directly by the chief, and that happened in the parking lot of the high school.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
I think you told the Commissioner, “No negotiations were successful in any material way to resolve this protest.”
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Not in any lasting way.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right. Were you made aware that the solicitor general herself wrote a letter to the protesters or proposed to negotiate with them and they refused that invitation as well?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I only became aware of that in reviewing some of the documents for this Commission.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I was unaware at the time.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay, fair enough. I won’t take you to it but, Commissioner, just for your reference, that’s WPS1454, a letter from the solicitor general. Mayor Dilkens, thank you. I don’t have any additional questions. Thank you, Commissioner.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Ottawa Police Service.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DAVID MIGICOVSKY
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Good afternoon, Mayor Dilkens. My name is David Migicovsky and I’m counsel for the Ottawa Police Service.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Good afternoon.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
The protest in Windsor -- or the blockade, I should say, began on February 7th and was cleared on February 13th; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And geographically, the area where the blockade was, I understand was a significantly smaller footprint than in Ottawa; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
From my understanding, that’s true.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And so the total number of trucks when -- at its highest was, I think you said, 200?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would rely on Deputy Chief Crowley for that information. I know that it -- the number of protesters ebbed and flowed and there were 200 at one time, but ---
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
I see.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
--- in terms of the number of trucks, I’d hate to hazard a guess because the police were tracking that with more precision.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Sure. I seem to recall that it was about 100 or so, but we can verify that with the deputy chief. The convoy reached Ottawa on January 28th, I believe, and I understand that the City of Windsor learned some important lessons based on what had occurred in Ottawa; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s fair.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And that was because it was an unprecedented situation for which neither the City of Windsor nor the Windsor Police could be prepared. But given what they learned in Ottawa, there were some things that they thought they could adapt; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It’s true that there were lessons learned that they were trying employ in Windsor that were happening in Ottawa.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Sure. And so one of them was -- and you mentioned it to my friend, Mr. Curry. If we could just pull up WIN00000152 at page 2, please, there’s an email from Andrew at 18 -- further down, please. You’ll see the Councillor Costante; Councillor Costante is a municipal councillor. And, actually, if you scroll down a little bit further, you’ll see the beginning of the chain. And so what I take -- and you can scroll through this if you need to. What I take from this is the point that you made with Mr. Curry is that it was important that the City be united with the police in terms of their response; correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And that everybody from the City speak with one voice, that the councillors not all be saying different things, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And I see from the email chain that in fact, Councillor Costante did comply with that request, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, that’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And the concern was that that was not what had been -- occurred in Ottawa, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s what Mr. Teliszewsky put in the email, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And I believe the OPP also may have talked about the need for everybody to speak with one voice, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I believe that’s true as well.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And there's another example. I'll just call it up. It's WIN00001091. And so if you scroll down to the bottom of it, you'll see that a constituent -- you could just scroll -- it was a constituent writing to -- and scroll up, please -- a constituent writing to the councillors and complaining that Windsor Police were doing the same as Ottawa and surrendering control to the protestors. And you'll see the response above that was really twofold, which was firstly, council can't direct the police, and the second point was to tell the constituents that they're misinformed when they think that the police are not doing anything, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
M'hm. That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And it's important for the City to be supporting the police because sometimes, the public doesn’t see what the police is doing and why they are doing or not doing, taking certain enforcement actions; is that your understanding?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That’s true.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And another useful lesson you indicated you learned from Ottawa was not to publicly announce the number of officers requested. And I believe, as I understand it, had Ottawa not happened first, you might not have realized that; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, I think that may have come out very quickly, to the extent that it was mentioned to a member of the media. The course was corrected very quickly thereafter. And so we obviously don’t want to -- and certainly, as the Chair of the Police Board -- did not want to do anything that would jeopardize the police operation or tip our hand in terms of what additional resources might be needed specifically.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Right. And that was something I think the OPP conveyed to you as a result of lessons learned from Ottawa; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And another thing I know - - and we don’t need to turn it up unless you want to see it is, I think another message that was repeated by the City was for councillors not to go on social media, to be very careful what they put on social media, correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And the blockade -- just finishing off my last point -- the blockade, I think we said, began on February 7th, and we know from your evidence this morning that on February 4th, I believe, you wrote a text -- you sent a text message to Minister Mendicino?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
So a couple of days in advance. And at that time, you were not considering blocking all access to the bridge in advance because that would ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
--- involve many, many access points?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It would have been such a dramatic action to take that step in advance of a full blockade that I mean, no one would have understood that.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Right. And it would require many more resources, obviously, than would be available?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely true.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And I guess finally, blocking all access would disrupt residents and businesses, obviously, but it could also mean that if you did that, the trucks would spread out over a larger part of Windsor as well; is that fair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That was a concern, especially as it related to the Windsor Detroit tunnel.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And that would disrupt even more people?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Absolutely true.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Thanks very much. I have no additional questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Ontario Provincial Police?
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Thank you, Commissioner. This is Jinan Kubursi. I'm here for the Ontario Provincial Police, and I have no questions. Thanks.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Next are the Ottawa Residents Coalition.
Christine Johnson, Counsel (Ottawa Coalition of Residents and Businesses)
Thank you, Commissioner. Christine Johnson for the Ottawa Residents and Businesses Coalition. We also have no questions for this witness.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
National Police Federation?
Lauren Pearce, Counsel (National Police Federation)
Hi there. This is Lauren Peerce coming in via Zoom. We also have no questions for this witness.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Thank you. City of Windsor?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. JENNIFER KING
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Good afternoon, Commissioner, Mayor Dilkens.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Good afternoon.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
For the record, I am Jennifer King, counsel to the City of Windsor. I only have a few questions remaining for you. Most of my questions have already been asked and answered. Could I ask you to please look at WIN00000992? While this is coming up, Mayor Dilkens, this is a letter from yourself to the Honourable Helena Jaczek, Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario. Do you recognize this letter?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes, I do.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Okay. If you could scroll to the last paragraph on the page, we'll see here you wrote: "Windsor Police and their partners in law enforcement have done an exemplary job in quickly clearing the illegal occupation and maintaining the security of Huron Church Road for over 400 million in goods that travel this crossing each day. Unfortunately, the price of that economic security has meant a significant and sustained loss for small and medium-sized businesses who operate along Huron Church Road in Windsor." If you could keep scrolling down? And you'll see here that you ask or you urge the Minister to show the same level of leadership and support the business community along Huron Church Road as was showed to Ottawa businesses who managed through the pandemic and now must cope with police barricades designed to protect our national economy from those who would seek to disrupt it because they oppose Canada's pandemic-related policies. Did you receive a response to this letter and request?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes. I received a phone call from the Minister and then the federal government provided funding and business support for the businesses affected by the blockade.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
And just to confirm, was it the federal government or was it the FedDev program?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I'd have to double check, but through this federal minister, the funds flowed to our Invest Windsor Essex Organization who acted as the clearinghouse for businesses affected to make application and receive payment.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Okay. And they received those funds?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
I just have a question. If you could pull up, please, the Clerk bring up WIN00002240? And while this is coming up, Mayor Dilkens -- it'll take a moment -- my friend Commission counsel asked you questions, if you'll recall, about your March letters to Minister Freeland and some others, and then also a second letter to former Solicitor General Jones. And what you see here, is this your letter from -- dated March 17th to Minister Jones, Minister Mendicino, and Minister Blair?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Yes.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Okay. And if you could just go to the second page, second-to-last paragraph, please? Right. You'll see here, Mayor, that you wrote that the recent blockade incident at the Ambassador Bridge highlighted a vulnerability in our governance model.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Can I just ask you to go slowly when you're reading for the interpreters?
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Thank you for the reminder. "The City of Windsor is certainly responsible for local infrastructure and the Windsor Police Service is capable of providing adequate and effective law enforcement for our community. That said, the need for broader collaboration and support from provincial and federal governments to bolster the safety and security of our borders appears obvious." Can you tell the Commissioner and give us some of your thoughts about what role you think each of the three levels of government, federal, provincial, and municipal, should play in protecting the Ambassador Bridge?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Well, because of the construct of the roadways and the infrastructure that exists going back 90 years, it really is imperative that we have a three-pronged approach here. Every level of government has a role to play. The City has to be an equal partner, and the City, respectfully, plays a disproportionate role in trying to resolve some of these issues, like the issue we're talking about in February, that we need to have these things coordinated in advance, have the conversation worked out in advance so we know who's doing what and who's responsible to fund some of these costs. And so after the fact, trying to get payment of over $5 million is -- it's frustrating to be honest, but, you know, we need to have these things worked out. And the response that we provided during the, let's say the week of -- the primary week of activity, all we did is respond. You know, we responded, we -- if it were the jersey barriers, someone said they're $1.3 million. "How fast can you get them here?" was the answer. We wanted to be as responsive as possible. But you know, from a City perspective there is a disproportionate burden, and so hosting an international crossing like this presents some opportunities for the City from an economic development perspective, but it also puts a disproportionate burden on the residents in the City of Windsor. Whether it's noise and air pollution, you know, whether it's, you know, traffic congestion on municipal roads and having to fund the costs of some of these municipal roads that fund truck traffic to an international crossing, all of these things, we really needed to sit down. And the point of this letter was "Let's sit down in advance. This may happen again, it may not happen again, but it's probably worth a few hours of discussion to figure out how we're going to do this moving forward so that it is -- you know, pull it from the shelf and implement as opposed to trying to figure it out in real time."
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Thank you. Those are all my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Thank you. Any re-examination?
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Yes, just very briefly. Natalia Rodriguez for the Commission.
RE-EXAMINATION BY MS. NATALIA RODRIGUEZ
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Mayor Dilkens, my friend for JCCF had asked about an annual marathon I believe that takes place that closes the bridge in its entirety. Is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And I just wanted to better understand how the closure of the bridge for that purpose affects the just-in-time delivery that you had spoken about in your earlier testimony.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I would submit that it really has no impact. Because this event has been happening for decades, it happens on a Sunday morning, I believe generally, and the closure is very early in the morning, say seven o'clock, for a defined period of time. And so runners will start the race in Detroit, run across the Ambassador Bridge, run down municipal streets in the City of Windsor, run back through the Windsor/Detroit Tunnel, back to the United States. And so everything is planned, coordinated, organised, and it's very time limited, and so with respect to local industry, they're able to adjust and adapt for that very time limited period.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And is a time-limited period more than 24 hours?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Oh, no. No, we're talking a matter of maybe two hours.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
I see. Okay, thank you, that does help clarify. And I just wanted to also clarify the communications that you had with the Premier and Solicitor General Jones over this period of time. My understanding is that you had one phone call with each of them; is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, I think I had two phone calls, but they were all quick. You know, it was just everyone was busy, I was trying to give information so they had situational awareness, pass out the information that I knew was coming, you know, through other channels, like the number of officers. And both the Premier, I think I've said this, but the Premier, the Solicitor General, Minister Mendicino, the Prime Minister, all extremely receptive, understood the issue, were well briefed. And certainly, you know, it was very good communication from my perspective with the two orders of government.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And with respect to the Premier specifically, we know you had a discussion with him on February 9, it's in the Institutional Report. When would the second phone call have taken place?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I can't remember if it was just a text or whether it was a quick phone call in and around the time the injunction was granted.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And with Solicitor General Jones, my understanding is that there was also one phone call around the 7th or 8th of February to discuss the resource request. Is that correct?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And aside from that, the discussions would've been over text message?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I thought there was more than one call with both, but I just can't be sure, and it's a function of the volume of what was happening. There were very quick touchpoints, and it was just a matter of sharing information very quickly. These were not long phone calls. It was in an effort for me to share what I knew. And you know, the Premier was excellent in terms of understanding the impact on the business community, he relayed that to me, and both of them were great to deal with.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Anything else that you can tell us about the content of those discussions, other than what you've told us?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Nothing else to add.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And I understand you also had a discussion with the Prime Minister on February 10th; is that right?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
That's correct.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And did he initiate that call or did you?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I can't remember who initiated it. I mean, it was set up, and I know our federal member had asked, and you know, there was lots of things going on behind the scenes. But I was told the Prime Minister is going to call at a certain time on that date, so I was by the phone waiting for the phone call.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And what can you tell us about the content of that discussion?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
We talked about what was happening on the ground in the City of Windsor. We talked about the battery factory, and you know, the work that was being done. And the Prime Minister understood very clearly what the impact was. He knows the City of Windsor, he understood what the impact was with that particular closure as it related to the Ambassador Bridge and the importance of the Ambassador Bridge, and he was very supportive in conversation about trying to find a resolution that got us all past this particular point in time and got things back to normal.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
And was the Emergencies Act discussed in that call, either by you or by him?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
No, not at all. The Prime Minister mentioned in that call that, you know, there may be something coming with respect to the United States that would make folks who participated in these types of activities, perhaps make them inadmissible to enter the United States, and I think that was enunciated in the readout of the call. But no discussion and nor was the Emergencies Act ever mentioned in that call.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Now, with respect to my friend from the City of Ottawa, you told her that at some point somebody did indicate to you that the normal order of operations would be to go to the OPP or the Province for resources first and then to the RCMP or the Federal Government. Can you tell us who indicated that to you and at what point in time in terms of the resource request?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
It came up in a conversation with Minister Mendicino. But I didn't -- you know, when -- I mean, I knew that that was the order of operations, he knew that was the order of operations, so we had a quick discussion about that and I relayed to him that my primary concern was getting the resources here on the ground so the response could be provided. I never felt like the Federal Government was sitting on their hands and not wanting to act in any way. I always got the sense that they were very receptive and trying to be a partner in trying to solve the situation and to find resources that would be helpful.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
So there was no sense that RCMP resources could be delayed as a result of having gone to the OPP first, for example?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I never felt that way, no one never enunciated that, and I don't believe that to be true.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. And finally, my friend for, I believe former Chief Sloly, spoke you about the in-camera board meetings that you had. I just want to clarify, who requested that these meetings be held in-camera?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I did.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
You did.
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
I did.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And why was that?
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Because I anticipated that the police would feel more comfortable to share operational details that we would not want to be in the public forum, and I also wanted the board members to feel comfortable to ask any question of the Chief or the administration that they felt needed to be asked, and so in-camera was the best place to do that. And I, you know, I thought it was right then and I think it's right now.
Natalia Rodriguez, Senior Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you very much. Those are my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Well, Mayor Dilkens, thank you very much for your testimony. You're free to go and ---
Drew Dilkens, Mayor (Win)
Thank you, sir.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
--- very appreciated. Okay. Next witness. I think you have a procedural matter to deal with first?
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes, Commissioner. Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel for the record. Before we call the next witness, I just want to formally table the bulk entry list from last week, which some may have noticed was not tabled. The list being entered today was first circulated on October 24th. We asked parties for their objections by 5:00 p.m. on November 1st. Commission Counsel received those objections, removed those doc IDs from the list. And the final list consists of 250 documents identified by Commission Counsel working on the police aspect of the Commission's mandate, as with the prior lists, emails, plans, a number of documents which we did not have time to put to the witnesses. And as well, there were 92 documents identified by Commission Counsel working on the protester aspect of the Commission's mandate, largely documents produced by the convoy organisers group, but other Commissioned documents OPS, JCF, and a few other parties. So those now will be sort of formally tagged and marked as exhibits. And I also just want to speak very briefly about the process for resolving the objections, which the parties were advised of this morning. Going forward, Commission Counsel will be using a revised template to send out the document IDs each week. We will continue to give a week's sort of notice and opportunity to review the documents. By five p.m. the following Monday, we will ask for the parties to put their objections in writing within that Excel spreadsheet. We will, as Commission Counsel, put them together and then try to deal with them directly with the party who has objected, and if not, Commission Counsel will embed their responses within that sheet, which will then be up to you, Commissioner, to sort of make a decision on the admissibility. The default will be that it will be done in writing, so parties are being encouraged to put their submissions as fulsomely as they would like in that Excel. Oral hearings will be sort of exceptional, subject to your discretion. This is the process which we will use starting today, for this week's bulk entry. And at some point, we will communicate a timeline for dealing with all of the objections, which have accrued to date. And so I just wanted to put that on the record. And now I'd like to call the Commission's next witness, which is Deputy Chief Crowley of the Windsor Police Service.
The Registrar (POEC)
Deputy Chief Crowley, will you swear on a religious document, or do you wish to affirm?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It's the Bible, please. Thank you.
The Registrar (POEC)
For the record, please state your full name and spell it out.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Jason Crowley, J-A- S-O-N C-R-O-W-L-E-Y.
DEPUTY CHIEF JASON CROWLEY, Sworn
The Registrar (POEC)
Thank you.
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. ERIC BROUSSEAU
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Deputy Chief Crowley.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good afternoon.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
What is your current rank with the Windsor Police Service?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I am the Interim Deputy Chief of Operations.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And that's not the same rank that you held in January and February; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct, sir. I was the Superintendent of Investigation Services at the time.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'd ask the Clerk to pull up your witness statement, which is WTS00000017. You'll recall sitting for an interview with Commission Counsel this summer?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you reviewed this witness statement before it was finalized?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you have any corrections that you'd like to make to it?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
There is one small correction on page 3.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Could we go to that, please? I think it's near the bottom. Very last paragraph it says, "protesters block the lanes that lead to the Ambassador Bridge." They actually protest -- or they actually block the southbound lanes away from the bridge originally. It's the only correction.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Everything else remains accurate, to your knowledge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'm also going to ask that the Windsor Police Service Institutional Report be pulled up. That is WPS.IR.00000001. And you've reviewed this in preparing to attend today?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And does that remain accurate?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
There are a couple clarifications, if I could.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Absolutely. Just you just let Mr. Clerk know which page?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Paragraph 23, sir, please. More of a clarification. It says the Public Order Units were from the OPP and Waterloo Service started to arrive on the 9th, I believe. Can you scroll down just a little bit, please? Yes, on the 9th.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So they did -- there was, like, a slowly through the night. They weren't deployed that night. They were just slowly arriving amongst other agencies as well, but that was just a clarification. They all didn't show up on the 9th.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
The other clarification is paragraph 58. So, essentially, the Public Order Unit was moving southbound down Huron Church. This paragraph refers to that. And it talks about the -- other -- a secondary group of officers travelling northbound. If you could scroll down, please? To the southbound -- in the southbound lanes of Huron Church to move the crowd eastbound onto Tecumseh Road. So that was the eventual movement once they hit Tecumseh Road, that was the movement towards -- on Tecumseh Road towards the east. It just -- those two roads intersect, as we know, so I just wanted to clarify that. That's all.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
And that is it.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the rest remains accurate?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now so in your role at the time as Superintendent of Investigation Services, what did that entail?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I oversaw the entire division in investigations, so everything from the investigative side of the house, which includes major crime, and property crime, right over to the support side of the investigations, so the drug units and, you know, ident, things like that. So that was my designation at the time. I also was the -- in charge of our Critical Incident Command Program, and I oversaw that as well.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so you're trained as a Critical Incident Commander?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I am.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand you were appointed as one of the two Critical Incident Commanders from WPS for this incident?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And at the time of the convoys, did WPS have any Public Order Unit trained officers?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, we did not.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
How about Police Liaison Team?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, we did not.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We had critical incident -- or, sorry, we had critical negotiators, critical incident negotiators, but not PLT per se.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we heard Mayor Dilkens this morning explain to us a little bit about jurisdiction, but perhaps you can just sort of refresh us and help us in terms of what WPS's responsible to police versus the RCMP versus the OPP in this Windsor area.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M'hm. So the Windsor Police would be responsible for municipal policing within the batteries of Windsor. There is an OPP presence on the provincial highways that lead into Windsor, which I believe now includes the Herb Gray Parkway, which is the extension of the 401 to the new bridge. And the RCMP, they do have a presence that is more, I believe, customs and excise, things like that with -- when it comes to international responsibilities, but nothing as far as municipal policing goes at all.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so when an incident occurs on the bridge, who responds?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
The Windsor Police do.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to ask you a little bit about the intelligence leading up to the blockade. Now I understand there were a number of slow roll protests that had come through Windsor previously; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
When did those start?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
They started months before the bridge blockade, months. We were dealing with them on a weekly basis, all over the city, but the ones that pertain to the bridge, really, we were well -- like, made aware of them that weekend they were going to be ramped up, which would have been the 4th, 5th and 6th.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So before that, there had been slow rolls in the Windsor area, but nothing that targeted the bridge ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- specifically? Okay. And how long had these slow rolls lasted typically?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Typically, they would be -- you know, last two or three hours. We would assign a certain group of officers to basically monitor it, manage it. There were never any issues typically. The slow rollers were -- typically, they were cooperative, and we would work with them prior to the slow roll. We would reach out to them to ensure that they -- you know, if we could do something for them essentially, as in facilitate their route, or things like that. But we would try and reach out to the organizers to maintain that communication piece.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now you're familiar with the terms Project Hendon and the Hendon reports?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I am.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You were receiving those directly from the OPP?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. But I did have -- I was not responsible for monitoring Hendon. I had an inspector that was responsible, Insp. Karel DeGraaf, who was on those calls daily, or as much as they were happening, anyways. And he was responsible for intaking those Hendon reports and updating me on any pertinent information.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you read them when you received them?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I read them on Insp. DeGraaf’s recommendation.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Would you have discussed most of the Hendon reports with Insp. DeGraaf on a daily basis?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. And particularly when Windsor was mentioned, but that wasn’t very often at the very beginning of Hendon.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you brief Deputy Chief Bellaire or Chief Mizuno on the reports?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. Anything I thought they needed to be aware of, I would certainly bring that to their attention.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I’d like to bring up the Hendon report for January 31st, which is OPP00000819. And this, if we can go to page 3, looking for point 13. This is, again, like I said, from the 31st. So point 13 says: “Open source information suggests that truck drivers from the United States plan to block the American side of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor to coincide with Canadian drivers blocking the bridge in Windsor. The available information does not include a date or time.” So do you recall seeing that at the time?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I think I do, yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what steps did the Windsor Police take to prepare for that possibility?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Again, these are -- this is our best source of intelligence, so we would obviously meet and discuss potential blockages, but there was also reports saying that numerous bridges might be blocked, so we would basically just keep that intelligence handy. I was on the -- I still am, actually, on the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police Emergency Preparedness Committee, and this is -- these are the things that were discussed during almost a daily meeting on those -- that committee.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Would this information have gone to the OPP from Windsor Police, or this is coming to you through the Hendon report, and you’re sort of learning of it for the first time?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
This was being learned about for the first time, essentially.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So there was -- if I can take you back to that time, you can imagine Ottawa was, you know, just starting to gain some traction and the protesters had just rolled in here. We were dealing with protests in Toronto, as a committee, on the weekends at Queen’s Park. So a lot of the discussion went there in this -- this intelligence and this information wasn’t really at the forefront at this time.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, a few days later -- I’m sort of skipping ahead to February 3rd, I believe you told us this summer that the Windsor Police learned through monitoring social media that there was a slow roll planned for the coming weekend; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And at that point in time, was there an indication of a blockade on February 3rd?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Just what I had previously mentioned about, you know, potential bridge or border crossing blockades, but nothing that I recall that was specific to February 3rd.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And from what I understand at that point perhaps if it was a little bit more serious and Chief Mizuno actually sort of put you in charge of the Windsor Police Service’s response to that intended slow roll; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what did that response look like?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
At this point I met with our patrol inspectors; I asked for an Operational Plan from them regarding the slow rolls. They seemed to have more traction and be a bigger entity than we had been dealing with, so I was asking for an Operational Plan. I also started to include members of the bridge, so CBSA, the bridge company; that was their contact so indirectly they were involved. Our Intelligence Unit, I included them quite a bit. So this is the day the meetings really started about, okay, we’re going to deal with these slow rolls but what if? This is where these conversations started.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was the plan? I mean, you mentioned, “What if?” What was the plan if the slow rolls just blocked the bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, this was the problem. So I think it’s been discussed prior to this about the difference between intelligence and information. Intelligence was very -- was limited, in my view, at this point, about confirmation of a blockade or a slow roll that would bearhug the bridge. To me, that was more information at this point. They still didn’t explain how they would do it, how it would be done and what we could do to stop it. I think what we really were thinking at the time, this bearhug idea. If you can recall the geography of the bridge, it’s essentially the road is a circle around the entire bridge property. And they talked about the bearhug and if that -- essentially, if vehicles went around the bridge, stopped, that would essentially shut down the bridge. So that’s kind of where we were thinking that might happen, so we tried to put some mitigating plans in place there, for that.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if I could just stop you there for a second, because we talked about slow rolls and how the Windsor Police Service just, you know, took steps to facilitate those in the weeks leading up to it. I mean, section 132 of the Highway Traffic Act prohibits unnecessarily slow driving, so a slow roll, depending on the speed, would be contrary to the Highway Traffic Act; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so why was it that the Windsor Police Service was, to use your words, were facilitating those protests?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So we were of the mindset, amongst other police services in the province, we were trying to find that balance of people’s ability and right under the Charter to protest. We felt it was better to work with the protesters to facilitate their slow rolls; it maintains public safety, which is what we were concerned about, and we did not certainly want to escalate any situation, and it was in the model of the way slow rolls were being policed throughout the province.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00000825? I’m taking you to the Hendon report, dated February 4th. And Mr. Clerk, if we could go to page 6? There’s a section entitled, “Ontario: Open Source Information (Media and Social Media).” And so this right there, the second point: “Commercial truck drivers and supporters may conduct slow rolls on roadways near the Ambassador Bridge over the next three days, and may attempt to block the bridge on [February 7].” I think this is the first time that there’s actually a kind of specific date to a potential blockade, is that right?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And in light of this information in this Hendon report, what steps were taken to prepare?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So not undifferent [sic] to other slow rolls, we were in communication with the organizer; very cooperative, worked with the police, supportive of our involvement. We had no issues with this slow roll group, this -- for that weekend. But as the weekend progressed, this intelligence became a little bit more solid, I would say, and that’s when by the Sunday, which would have been the 6th, we started to gain more information about this date being legitimate of a blocking bridge. Again, the problem we ran into was how? How are we going to -- how are they going to block the bridge? We had no intelligence. Again, the geography of the bridge is very porous; it’s critical infrastructure in the middle of our west- end, with side streets and access to the bridge, exits to the bridge; it’s not as easy as a one-way-in, one-way-out. So we were trying to make considerations for numerous plans, but nothing was in stone because we didn’t know what we didn’t know.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Fair enough. I’d like to take you to the Operational Plan for dealing with a slow roll now, which is WPS00001883. Although it might actually be five zeros, I think; WPS’s use nine digits. And so I think this is the operational plan that you had asked to be put together on February 4th for the slow rolls. You’ll be able to tell me if that’s correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, if we go down to page 2 on the “SITUATION”, in the middle of the paragraph. “There is further mention of the ongoing protests/blockade situation at Coutts, Alberta Port of Entry with intention to mirror this type of activity in Windsor at the Ambassador Bridge Port of Entry.” And if we can go down to the “EXECUTION”? The same page, the fourth point: “They will be utilizing this route for 3 days then consider Ambassador Bridge blockade on February 7, 2022.” And so I mean I think there was pretty clear evidence as of the 4th that the 7th was going to be the day of a blockade if one was going to occur. Is that right?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so what kind of assistance did Windsor Police Service seek at that point?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So that weekend was very busy reaching out to numerous partners. So locally, it was the Chief of Fire, Windsor Fire Rescue, Steve Laforet. Also Bruce Crowder, from our Emergency Medical -- EMS. Again, I already said we spoke with CBSA. Those kinds of plans started logistically. Again, “What if this happens? What do we need to do to help our partners?” We believed right from this point it was a police response. So we certainly were trying to help out our partners as best we can to plan for them, as well as us.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand that Chief Mizuno spoke with Commissioner Carrique of the OPP on February 4th as well?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know -- I don’t think you were on that call, but did Chief Mizuno relay to you what was discussed?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I think in email, there was some discussion about -- I was not on that call, sorry, to clarify that. There was some discussion about getting some local assistance from the OPP from the two detachments within our area for some help. Also, sending some Public Liaison officers, PLT, down to Windsor to assist us on Monday. Those were the discussions of potentially maybe having 35 officers or so come and help us. And at that point, it was strictly to -- for traffic control, intersection control. That kind of thing, to set up a perimeter that we felt was manageable.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So on the 4th, the intention was to be setting up a perimeter to try to prevent the blockade?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, essentially. So to prevent the blockade, to manage the slow roll, all these things that, again, we didn’t have specifics where we could plan a specific response to a specific action by protestors, but certainly we were trying to do a very general response to be able to react to something that could possibly happen.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I take it you didn’t have a time on the 7th? You didn’t know anything more than something might materialize on the 7th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, the information I had was that the bridge would be blocked if they didn’t get what they want, meaning relief of vaccine mandates, things like that. That was the only information I had on Monday.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to take you to I think probably one of the emails you just mentioned, which is WPS000001880. This is an email exchange between yourself and someone named Dwight Thib of the OPP. Who is Dwight Thib?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Dwight Thib is the Chief Superintendent of the Region. So as a result of Chief Mizuno’s conversation with the Commissioner, I spoke to Dwight, who you can see here that he put me in touch with Diana Earley, who is a Superintendent of the Region, one of the superintendents for the OPP, basically saying if you need something, please don’t hesitate. And he CC’d Supt. Diana Earley, who oversees our Emergency Response Team.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And he says in this email: “As discussed, you can continue to liaise with our Essex Detachment Command team…”
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
“Should intel be received or action by demonstrators taken to shut down the […] bridge dont [sic] hesitate to reach out…”
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. That original discussion with the Essex Detachment Command Team was more of an information sharing session at that point, and they were going to monitor the 401 for us. But exactly what -- the intention there was to continue discussing with them.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And at this point, I guess what I’m trying to understand, even on the 4th, there is a threat of a blockade on the 7th. And the response is at the local OPP detachment level, nothing that kind of was escalated above that from a resource perspective?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. I would call those, like, informal requests.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think you mentioned earlier that there were 35 officers dispatched as part of that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Approximately, yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And those would have all come from the Essex Detachment?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Essex, and Lakeshore, and anywhere that might be close to those.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I’m assuming. I can’t say for sure. But I would assume.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And your summary of our interview this summer mentions that you spoke with a CBSA officer and RCMP officer, Border Integrity Officer on that day as well. What can you tell us about that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. So my first call was to a Chief Superintendent RCMP officer in London, who put me in touch with Kevin McGonagall, who is a border integrity officer. I believe he’s also out of London, but he was the closest contact for me, as far as the RCMP goes, as the border -- it pertains to the border. So I spoke with Kevin and basically said, you know, their resources were stretched thin because of other -- potential threats to other borders in the province, but certainly they had people on call and they would assist as needed or as could be.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Neither of them were -- neither the CBSA nor the RCMP were taking steps to prepare for, like, the blockade?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Not at that time. In speaking with CBSA, I asked them if they had an operational plan, I believe on the Friday the 4th, and they didn’t. They were referencing Coutts as well, because the Coutts blockade was not on the border property, it was down the road, similar to ours. So they were just trying to work with us in our response and help us in any way they can.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I’d like to take you to another Hendon Report dated February 6th. That’s OPP00001622. And on page 6, there’s, again, a reference to the possible attempt to block the Ambassador Bridge. So this is now -- February 6th is the Sunday. What steps were being taken that weekend to prepare? The 5th, the 6th. The information still says, “Yeah, Monday, there’s likely to be a blockade.”
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M’hm. So and again, we didn’t know what we didn’t know. With the geography that presents itself to us, the bridge is very difficult to plan something solid that we don’t know what’s going to happen -- how it’s going to happen, I should say. We did discuss, as was suggested earlier, about, you know, potentially rerouting traffic off the 401, closing the 401, which just was not an option, coming into the city. So there was all kind of discussions on how we might be able to do it, but essentially we thought if we could control that intersection around the bridge, that again, we were in the mindset of this Bearhug, if we controlled the intersection, limited vehicle traffic through it, we would be able to essentially control access to the bridge.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we’ll talk about that in a moment.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But that evening of the 6th, there was a slow roll protest at Mic Mac Park; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what happened there?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That was the first noticeable difference in any of the slow rolls that we’d had. There was a little bit more aggression by the protestors at Mic Mac Park. There was a fair number of them. And that was the first time that, like, officers had to actually disengage some of the protestors, because of the aggression that they showed.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Disengage from the protestors?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Again, we’re trying not to escalate things. We’re trying to plan -- you know, knowing what’s going on in Ottawa at the time and in Coutts, we’re trying not to escalate anything and work with, as all the previous other -- the previous slow rolls, we’re trying to work with the protestors. And also at this time, we are also planning for information we had received was for the next morning of a potential gathering at Comber Rest Stop, which is about 25 minutes outside of Windsor on the 401. There’s a truck stop. And we were potentially planning for this gathering. So we had planned for our surveillance team to go out as well as the OPP. They were going to be there and try and engage the truckers to see what their -- their plan was and their intentions were that morning.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, you mentioned by this point you had seen what was going on in Ottawa, so if you can just pause there briefly and tell us what -- up to the 6th, what lessons the Windsor Police Service had taken away from what had been going on in Ottawa for 10 days by then?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So I think -- to be honest, at this point we were so involved in our planning and what we had been doing, I can’t say that there was a -- you know, a lot of takeaways at this point from Ottawa, but certainly we knew about private property, engaging our partners and our business owners at this point about who is willing to have protestors on their property and the other bridge so we didn’t have to waste any kind of valuable time in the -- in the moment. Again, dealing with protest leadership was a big one, and also we knew a strong command team had to be set up.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And those are all -- you’re saying those are all lessons you had taken away from what had been going on for 10 days.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. So part of it was because of this Emergency Planning Committee that I sit on. A lot of the other police leaders were in Ottawa, you know, could see that -- some of the issues they were going through as we went to planning and things like that, so I realized that this was a large piece of what we needed to accomplish.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to pull up WPS00000221. These are some emails early in the morning between Deputy Chief Bellaire and Chief Mizuno. I’ll ask you about them.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We’re still on the 7th. Chief Mizuno emails Deputy Chief Bellaire: “If we know then they are coming and where from, any thought to stopping the convoy and negotiating some terms before they reach the bridge? It sounds like they want the transports to leave the convoy with everyone following, so there may be an opportunity to try to control it.” And then Deputy Chief Bellaire says, “Yes, talking to JC about that exact thing.” I assume JC is ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Is me, yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So what can you tell us about his attempts at negotiation the morning that the convoy is descending upon Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So this was one of the major differences from Ottawa. Again, we assumed a lot seeing what we had seen here. This is not -- so at Comber that morning, there was some trucks, which there always are going to be trucks at the truck stop, but there was more pedestrian cars than we expected. We had information again that there was convoys sitting in concession roads off the 401 hiding, waiting to join the trip down the 401, which never materialized, but it was something we thought, okay, that’s the information. That’s what’s happening. But the main difference was, it wasn’t all semis. It was a lot of pedestrian vehicles, pick-up trucks with flags, and at this point when we were there, we don’t know who a protestor is at that point other than, you know, people with flags, for instance. So it was very difficult to even determine who is a protestor and who’s just driving down the 401, essentially. So stopping a convoy just wasn’t as easy as it sounded.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand that, ultimately, there were sort of multiple groups of protestors that set up in Windsor. Was that apparent at this stage the morning of February 7th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I wouldn’t say it was as obvious as it became at this point. Like I said, we had very good relationship with the organizer of the slow rolls and that was the first -- that Sunday group was that first different group that we said, okay, there’s a different leadership faction here. And in fact, the original slow roll organizer actually pleaded with the other group not to block the bridge, so he -- we had to develop that relationship with him to, on our behalf, try and plead with them not to do it. So that’s the first, but it wasn’t as obvious down the road.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did that original slow roll organizer ultimately participate in the blockade of the bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t believe he did. I just can’t say for sure, but I don’t believe he did.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now, I’d like to go to WPS000000266. These are emails between yourself and somebody at the RCMP. Kevin McGonigal, I think is the name that you ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- gave us before. So he is writing to you again the morning of the 7th: “Wanted to check in to see how things are going in Windsor this morning. As you are aware, we are being requested to support Ottawa with the situation there. We will have to balance operational response in all of our border points, especially Windsor, Sarnia, Erie, etc. Evaluating what is going on in those locations will assist with our decisions.” So I guess my first question is, what sort of pre-February 7th assistance was the RCMP making available, had they made available to the Windsor Police?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
At that point, it was just a connection that was made with Kevin and offering if there’s anything they could do, let them know.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was more of an intelligence thing, I think, at that point. We didn’t really utilize Kevin McGonigal’s services at this point.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And there’s sort of a reference made to balance operational response. Now, I’m just talking about the convoy protest in general. Did that -- did that play out in the sense of did you see an inability or a reticence or were you told, “We can only send you X number of officers because we’ve got to police a whole bunch of different protests”?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M’hm. The police resources were spread very thin throughout the province. It was very clear to me, being as a part of the Emergency Planning Committee, it was quite clear that resources were in high demand, so yes, I saw that quite clearly.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I think you told us this summer, and it’s in your statement, that you attended a meeting of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police Committee that day on the 7th and you were told effectively the same thing, there’s a limit to the number of resources that we have for Windsor.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how about when it came to the OPP? At this stage on the 7th, were you being told the same thing, there’s -- you know, we can only give you X number of officers, vehicles?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. At this point, the bridge had not been blocked, so we were -- you know, we were okay with just having boots on the ground providing traffic, you know, resources at that point. But I had sent Dana Early an email, I believe the night before, or maybe -- maybe this -- on the 7th, asking, “Hey, if things go a bit sideways here, how available is any POU resources?”. So that was really my first, again, informal ask just to get an understanding if we need to look that way, what does it look like for you.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what was the response?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t know. I’d have to see the email exactly what the response was. But at this point, Dana was working with us from London still, basically trying to put resources together. I think the response, essentially, was if you need something, we’re going to supply it for you.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think I’ve got the email, but tell me if I’m wrong. If we could pull up WPS000000374. This is an email from February 8th. This may not be the one that you’re looking for, but you reach out to Superintendent Early and say: “Hi, Dana. I received direction from Orillia to contact you if our blockade occurred and began to get to a point where extra resources may be required. It’s relatively manageable. I know your people are very spread out, but my ask at this point is if we were to need POU or PLT down here, what would availability be?”. This is the email?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
This is this, correct. Yeah.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And again, what -- I don’t know that we have a response, not in this thread, but what was the response in terms of availability?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Again, I think it was if -- you know, let us know what you need and we will try and make arrangements, essentially.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what kind of coordination occurred with the CBSA at this point once the blockade started?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So at the very beginning of it, we were managing the blockade from our Windsor Police Headquarters in a project room to later in the day, we moved to the EOC and stood it up. At that point is when I expanded the command team and invited CBSA to be a part of the command team. So they supplied personnel at that point to be that direct link with us to CBSA, and they were providing intelligence and any information they had, along with the resource at that point.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Which other organisations were part of the Command Team?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
At this point, I would say CBSA was the only external partner that was in the EOC with us. We had expanded our internal resources to include Major Crime at this point. We expanded to include more Intelligence officers, along with the sergeant that was already in the Command Team. And some more resources for logistics because we -- it was growing, we needed some help.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up WPS000000235. This is an email with Glenn Miller of the OPP about the availability of the OPP's PLT for Windsor. These are Windsor Police. You can go down to the email at -- there. Sorry. The last paragraph: "As we speak Brad is reaching out to Sgt. Mike Acton, PLT if he could have his resources immediately deployed to Comber as its anticipated those in attendance will be leaving at 1000 hrs..." So were the OPP PLT able to reach the protesters before they set up the blockade?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
You know, that's a really good question. I don't recall if they did or not. I had never heard of PLT until this weekend ---
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- unbelievably, and I don't recall if they made it or if it was just regular OPP officers discussing intentions with the Comber people.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Ultimately, there were OPP PLT deployed to Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I think you told us this summer that they had some success.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you expand upon that or elaborate on that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So in those first days, when we were really relying on just essentially, you know, mostly Windsor Police resources, we had some difficulty in negotiating ourselves with all the protesters. Again, we talked about the fraction of leadership and different groups. The PLT, how it was explained to me through local OPP resources, were, you know, they have relationships with a lot of people through different protests across the province. They -- that's their -- essentially that's their role to maintain these relationships, and because of that trust is built, and they are able to, you know, basically fulfill their mandate with the negotiations with any kind of demonstration. In this case, they were able to -- and again, it was so dynamic over the first four or five days with lanes closing, lanes opening. I can't tell you times or days, but there was numerous times where lanes were opened and closed, but essentially it was PLT doing that for us. They had also brought in a couple of minor tactics with printed pieces of paper for officers and their notebook for common messaging handouts for the protesters. So it was all about education and communication with them, and they did a fantastic job.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know why, when they succeeded in opening a lane or a couple of lanes, those lanes would then subsequently reclose or be blockaded again.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. So we had the -- we were monitoring many open sources for Intelligence. We actually heard a lot of the conversation from the protesters about their conversations about the police on a Zello app, and - - so that was part of it. We could hear the infighting. So somebody would negotiate a lane open and someone else would step up and say, "no way we're giving -- we're not giving this to the police", and their people would come and clog it up. And then we would hear that right on ground as well. So it was quite obvious that the leadership was not -- there was no solidarity there for sure.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah. Now, I want to move ahead to the evening of February 7th, and there's an event that happens on the property of Assumption High School.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you describe that for us?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So if I could just back up to the Monday. One of my first questions was, again, when it comes down to lessons from Ottawa, knowing that the tow truck companies did not want to participate with the Ottawa Police or help them that was one of my first questions. Are -- we have a contract with the company in Windsor, and my -- to Inspector Crosby, I remember asking her, are they onboard? And she said she already had asked that question, and they were. So that was good news to us. And that first night, again, the -- we were trying to keep protesters off of private property and Assumption High School is, as the Mayor said, right in the protest area on Huron Church, between Tecumseh and College. We started seeing protest vehicles go into the school property parking lot, and we went over there to discuss with them to, you know, "You're not welcome here. We've already talked to the Board, you're not welcome, it's time to go." And we kind of gave them an ultimatum, saying, "Listen, you have 10, 15 minutes to move. We're going to tow you." So we held the tow trucks back out of sight as best we could, again, not wanting to escalate things, you know, and somebody spotted one of the tow trucks. And we had some altercations, or sorry, not altercations, some of the protesters came out of their cars with tire irons, and we were at times, not only on this occasion but almost outnumbered in getting swarmed a little bit, and again, having our officers have to disengage to not escalate. So then they ended up moving after some negotiation. But that was the Assumption High School incident.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just jumping ahead a bunch in the story, but you mentioned wanting to keep protesters off private property as something that you had learned from the experience in Ottawa.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And once the blockade was cleared, my understanding is there was a decision made, within the Windsor Police Service, not to set up an alternative protest site on private property or sort of away from Huron Church Road, and that that was also sort of a lesson drawn from Ottawa.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So can you tell us, what that lesson is and why that decision was made?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So under the Trespass of Property Act, we cannot remove someone from private property without -- we act as an agent for the owner. If they are not -- if they're willing to have someone go to their property and not be removed, then the police are -- have no authority there to remove them. So we did not want to give any kind of, you know, spot for the protesters to basically congregate. Essentially right there at Tecumseh Road, we have very large parking lots, there is a grocery store and numerous a mall essentially, so it's a very big parking lot. So that could've really led to some -- you know, another protest area, essentially, plus we had smaller businesses of the cab company, all these places, that we just did not want to interfere with business anymore than we already had and keep things under control.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So there was no option to continue protesting in the way that had been the case once the blockade was cleared?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah. Sort of going back in time to the establishment of the blockade, can you tell us how that unfolded the evening of the 7th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So we had carried through with the plan that we had talked about with trying to control the intersection of College and Huron Church, which is the first intersection south of the entrance to the bridge. And what we did we established control of it with traffic officers, our traffic enforcement officers, by basically just letting two or three cars go at a time, and if they went on the bridge and crossed then we'd let another two or three. So that's how we controlled for quite a while, actually. Same with coming off the bridge, we would try and do that best we can -- we could. And then I think doing that for sometime, it was frustrating. The protesters, again we were listening to open source media, and they were getting frustrated with us. So I think the comment was one of them basically said, "I wonder what happens if I just stop my truck right here in the southbound lanes?" And that's what happened. Best truck stopped, a pickup truck stopped, I would say 200, 300 metres south of College, another one stopped and another stopped, and the next thing you know all three lanes were blocked, and that's how it started. So from there, the traffic started to block up or clog up very quickly, and within probably 20 minutes there was a line of semi-trucks that were just regular commuters for industry creating a line of trucks miles into Detroit and Michigan. So that's how it started.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand early in the blockade a number of trucks were sort of stranded on the bridge; is that right?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
How were they cleared? How and why?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
so the why would be, you know, people were stuck on this bridge for hours. The bridge is almost a hundred years old. So we were worried about structural integrity of the bridge. We were worried about commerce. We were worried about people having no, you know, food, water, you know, washrooms, being up on the bridge. We wanted to get that bridge cleared off. So the how was very difficult. So, again, the geography of the bridge, there's one main entrance that comes out onto Huron Church Road, which is southbound. There is a secondary entrance -- or exit, sorry. If I said entrance the first time, I meant exit. There's a secondary exit that turns to the west and goes up a small road, part of Huron Church beside the bridges towards Wyandotte. And then the only other access to the bridge is off of Wyandotte Street. It's an entrance. So at that point, again, very dynamic. There was blockages at all three at times. So we were -- at points, we were using an entrance on the north side of the bridge for exiting. We were trying to get out that secondary exit, which wasn't possible because cars and trucks had clogged that small section of Huron Church just west of the bridge almost instantly. There was a decision made at one point by myself to allow trucks access to College westbound, which I didn't want to do because that was out emergency route for fire, because they - - their fire station is just east of Huron Church. And if protesters clog College, we were in a bad way. But there was no -- there was just no other decision to make at that point. We literally had to do what we could to clear that bridge. So, and again with negotiations through all that to allow us to essentially, you know, open this part, open that part, to eventually clear the bridge, and I think the bridge was cleared of traffic by about 10:20 at night. So they were up there a while.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to pull up WPS000000356. This is an email from February 7th and it's regarding the Ambassador Bridge Corporation and the President of the Corporation. So you're not on it, but Gary Williams sent an email to looks like Mem Murphy. I don't know if you know who that is.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Marc Murphy is an inspector ---
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And it's essentially relaying a conversation that Gary Williams had with the President of the Ambassador Bridge Corp., and Marc says, "I will forward to degraaf and Crowley to deal with. Thanks for the heads up." So first of all, did you get that email and sort of deal with it?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't know if I got this email, but I definitely got a message, either directly from Murphy or from our Communications Centre, our 9-1-1 Centre, that this call was coming in to them as well. The bridge company wasn't happy with us. I think they thought we were blocking the bridge, and we were just trying to tell them we are doing the best we can. And my question to them was, "Have you stopped letting trucks on the bridge?" Because that just wouldn't help us to continue to let trucks on the bridge. So at some point, they started routing traffic to the Bluewater Bridge, which at this point, they had no issues there so.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know why they thought Windsor Police was blocking the bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't have a clue.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how -- was this your only sort of contact with the company or did the Ambassador Bridge Corporation, you know, weigh in or sort of get in touch with the Windsor Police throughout that week?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I can't say. I didn't have anymore conversation or contact with the bridge company at that point. That was my only contact with them.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you know if anyone -- do you know if Chief Mizuno or Deputy Chief Bellaire did?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I don't.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No. And how about just, again, generally speaking, other interests, unions, there was some evidence this morning about Stellantis, this new EV battery manufacturer, I think, but what was the sort of economic pressure like from the businesses in Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So being the EOC, I mean, we were approximately 10 kilometres away from the bridge. So, like, I was getting reports, but to be all honesty, the pressure that we felt, just knowing the impact of what was going on in the EOC was enormous pressure. We felt that we wanted to do more but we were so handcuffed at this point with what was going on. But certainly, you know, just reports in mainstream media and the economic impacts, we knew it was humungous. It was just giant.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So is it fair to say, I mean, you were aware from reading the news that this was having an impact, but you weren't personally aware of pressure being inserted on the Windsor Police Service to ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, that was not in my realm at that point, but growing up in Windsor, I grew up my whole life, I understand that the essence of what -- how important that bridge is to our community and our country, to be honest. So it's not lost on me the impact that that would have.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I'd like to go to WPS000000609. So move ahead to Wednesday, February 9th. This is an email from you to Jen Crosby and Inspector DeGraaf, saying, "I was asked by Jay to put something together to present to the OPP for a request for 100 officers to assist and include how, why, what, etc[etera]..." And further down in that paragraph, "The 100 officer request does not include POU." And so the attachment, which is the next number 610, and then so what I assume when you say I was asked by Jay, that's Deputy Chief Bellaire?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I think that was me.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry, I think you were writing that. If we can just pull that back up?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Oh, sorry; was I?
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You were writing that -- you sent that email.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay. Sorry. Then that would be Deputy Chief Bellaire at the time, yes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so you -- you're the one who spearheaded kind of putting together, okay, here's the numbers we're going to request and here's how they're going to be used; is that right?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. The background of that actually was before the -- sorry, that was on the 9th. Before that, I had received a call on the 8th at about 6:30 in the morning from Superintendent Mike McDonell from the OPP, who I was a colleague with on the Emergency Preparedness Committee. And he obviously had seen on the news what was going on, and he asked me what we needed. And I just told him, "We need some bodies." So his ask to me was -- and this was over time. This was not on that first conversation. He said he would talk to the Commissioner. But again, informal request here; right? This is a Superintendent asking another Superintendent. It's an informal request. So within time, he gets back to me and says, "I need a plan of what you're going to do with 100 officers." And I understood that just to ask for a hundred officers, so I put together a very generic plan, considering there was 2 -- you know, 24-hour coverage, 2 12-hour shifts, essentially, and we are also policing a very busy city with our own resources and resources for the bridge. So that was really my ask and I put together this very generic plan for them.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just so I -- I want to make sure I understood correctly, it was McDonell who suggested the hundred officer figure to you?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, he asked me what we needed, and, you know, just literally doing the quick math kind of right there, I said, "I could probably use a hundred officers." But he asked me for a plan. "Well, I need to know what you need a hundred officers for." I said, "No problem."
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so this document that we're looking at on the screen is -- was the plan for how you're going to use the hundred officers?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we could just scroll down, just so you see all of it.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I would say it is, yeah. And this is being put together with not knowing anything about the OPP's collective agreements, what shifts they worked, what -- you know, I came to found out over -- find out over time how this is very normal for them, and they all expect deployments like this. And, you know, this is very normal. So but this is at a time where I -- you know, I'm trying not to step on another organization's collective bargaining agreement, and to try and, you know, satisfy our needs as well so.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We saw in the covering email that this doesn't include POU Units. Why would you have left those out of this request?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I think this was still fairly early in the sense of this conversation happened essentially less than 24 hours after the bridge was locked. So, again, our plan at the time was to negotiate. We had set up a perimeter and to negotiate with them. And at the time, this is -- we thought hopefully we could get there at the end of it through negotiation. Again, not trying to escalate anything, but that's why, you know, my background told me three days before to ask Dana, "Hey, if it goes this way, what are we looking at?" But that was not in the plan yet, and again, knowing what was going on here and in Toronto.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so this exchange is between -- this arises as a result of your discussion with Supt. McDonell but you’re aware, on the same day, Chief Mizuno sent letters to Minister Jones, the Solicitor General in Ontario, and to Bill Blair, Minister Blair; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I was not aware of that at that time.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I -- in preparing for this, I found that out, and I’m assuming that that ask was the formal ask because of this. But I can’t confirm that. I don’t know.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So -- and again, just so we understand, on February 9th, Chief Mizuno did not consult you or make you aware that she was writing to those two politicians asking for 100 officers.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t recall that she did, no.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, if we could pull up WPS000000827. And so apart from seeing the letters, do you remember any discussion with Chief Mizuno or Deputy Chief Bellaire at the time about those -- that correspondence to Sylvia Jones or Bill Blair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I don’t recall that at all. I -- I was sending situation reports to them regularly, and there may have been conversations back and forth, but I don’t recall them, to be honest.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So I’m showing you an email, and again, you’re not on this email, but it’s an email in which Commissioner Carrique of the OPP is writing to Commissioner Lucki of the RCMP, and it’s subsequent to Chief Mizuno’s emails -- letters to the ministers. It says: "Chief Pam Mizuno and I had an opportunity to discuss the attached correspondence. Currently, Windsor Police does not require the deployment of additional police officers from the OPP or the RCMP." And so what I’m trying to understand is, do you know why the about-face? I mean that morning, Chief Mizuno had said, “We need 100 officers,” sent the letters directly to the ministers, and then that evening, it’s -- according to Commissioner Carrique’s email, it’s -- everything’s fine.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I can’t explain this. I did not know about this when it happened. I mean, if you look at the time, it’s 11:20 at night on the 9th. I was working straight midnights at point and if I would have known this at the time -- you know, I understand there was mass confusion to a situation that we have never dealt with. So I can’t explain this email. I did not know about it at the time.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we heard this morning from Mayor Dilkens that there might have been some issue or confusion over going to the OPP and the RCMP, and that the proper channel is to go to the OPP first. Was that something that you were made aware of around this time?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, but the Police Services Act of Ontario is quite clear, that is we can’t provide our own, for instance, in this case, public order unit, we need to go to the OPP, and our directive, our policy, says that as well, so.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Deputy Chief. Commissioner, as I believe you know, the balance of the examination will be completed by my colleague, Guillaume. I don’t -- we’re sort of 15 minutes prior to the break; I don’t know if you’d like Guillaume to start now or take the break early.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Yeah, this might be a good time to take a break, then, if you’re going to change counsel, then. So we’ll take the afternoon break for 15 minutes.
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Deputy Chief.
The Registrar (POEC)
The Commission is in recess for 15 minutes. La Commission est levée pour 15 minutes.
Upon recessing at 3:45 p.m.
Upon resuming at 4:01 p.m.
The Registrar (POEC)
Order. À l’ordre. The Commission is reconvened. La Commission reprend.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GUILLAUME SIROIS-GINGRAS
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon. I’m Guillaume Sirois, Commissioner Counsel. I will be leading from the events of February 10th. In the morning of February 10th, this is when Supt. Dana Earley from the OPP arrived in Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I would like to pull up WTS.00000022. While it’s being pulled up, I’ll just summarize what’s mentioned. That’s Dana Earley’s witness summary. At page 3, the second paragraph at the top, she mentions that, upon arriving in Windsor, Dana -- or Supt. Earley engaged in discussions with the Windsor Police Command team, including Deputy Chief Bellaire, and that during those discussion, Deputy Chief Bellaire told her that WPS welcome OPP’s assistance, understood that OPP had more experience policing blockades and protests that WPS, and understood that all operational decisions needed to come through Supt. Earley. Is that -- were you present during these discussions?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I was not present during these sessions. I was working midnights at this point. Karel Degraaf our critical incident commander on days, but I was not present during this, no.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And were you informed about the content of these discussions afterwards?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No. I mean -- so Dana Earley came with numerous resources. It was clear that the Windsor Police, to all of our admission, had no experience in public order. So it was my understanding right from the beginning that Dana and her team was in charge of the public- order response as well as numerous OPP resources. So that would just -- my understanding was we would be forming a unified command team.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And was this understood prior to Supt. Earley’s arrival or once she arrived?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I would say before she arrived. That was the intention. We did not have that experience, and we were asking for help, essentially.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So it was -- just to make sure I understand correctly -- it was OPP -- sorry, WPS command's position that OPP should take over the event in Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, that was not my understanding. I was never told that. My understanding was unified command of which again -- so in my experience, before I was a Critical Incident Commander and as a Critical Incident Commander, when you have multi-jurisdictional command and unified command in that multi-jurisdictional command, there are times to step forward as a Critical Incident Commander and there are times to step back, and that’s what unified command is. We learned through this process that Supt. Earley's command was -- she was in command of public order response, was in command of OPP resources. Those were the times she stepped forward, and there was operational times when the Windsor Police would step forward, be it myself or Inspector Karel DeGraaf.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So you would say that OPP was in charge of the POU response and PLT perhaps, and WPS maintained control of the overall operation?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was, again, this unified command. I can't say anyone was in charge of the overall operation. Unified command, there is consultation that goes on. Like, for instance, even the POU plan where Supt. Earley was clearly in charge of the POU plan, she consulted us on it after it was done. She would consult us, any issues, any logistical issues, any Windsor issues. So that’s -- that is the true meaning of unified command. So this, I was not part of those discussions, so that was not my understanding.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So in the same paragraph, we see that Supt. Earley later called Craig Abrams and informed him that Windsor has told us -- us being OPP --this is now ours. And Supt. Earley explained that she meant that OPP was in charge and that WPS will be working alongside OPP. That’s not your understanding of how it took place?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, I agree with the working alongside. Yes, it's 100 percent, I agree with that. I don’t know about this. I was never informed of this. I would say that yes, we worked alongside each other and again, that concept of stepping forward and stepping back in unified command was present right from the immediate arrival of Supt. Earley and her team. And I would also say that Windsor Police was always the police of jurisdiction. We never were not the police of jurisdiction through this event.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I think we can come back to the witness summary later on, but I would like to pull up WPS00000002 at page 27, because I think I just want to understand who was taking decisions and who was giving advice and so on in their command structure, because I understand that the idea of coming forward and giving some space to the other command, but I just want to make sure I understand properly how this works in practice.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And that -- this is a document that -- the debrief. Do you recognize this?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I do.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
This is something that you prepared?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It's not my document, no.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But it was prepared after the Freedom Convoy events to make a debrief of the events and recommendations moving forward?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And if we can go at page 27, please? On the right table, it's the -- it's point 4. It says, under "CIC Takeaway" -- CIC, I understand, is Critical Incident Command -- we see at point 4: "Needed WPS to be more engaged with collaborating on operational plans. WPS members have best idea of the area and implications of decisions and should be embedded in decision making matrix."
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So this document was -- there's a lot of opinion in this document. The way it was prepared, the superintendent that was in charge of this document of preparing it essentially sent out opinion papers to all our subject matter experts within our service, and this -- I don't know where that came from. It didn’t come from me, but certainly, that was just part of a recommendation that somebody felt that, you know, was legitimate.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Maybe we can talk a little bit about the command table that was formed by Supt. Earley. Do you recall that command table?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, very well.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Can you just explain how it worked and who from the WPS was on the command table, what was their role, and so on?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So prior to the OPP command team arriving, we had our command table. Supt. Earley came with her command table, which essentially, in the positions, kind of mirrored ours. But -- so her team arrived on the 10th, and immediately, that team was inserted in our command table effortlessly, seamlessly. So she had a scribe, as I had a scribe. She had another inspector involved in logistics. She had a boardsperson that is in charge of all the whiteboards with all the information on it that we -- that is changing throughout the event. Essentially, it was the very same setup, a very similar setup than we had. But the day they came in, they had some recommendations on the actual layout of our EOC which were taken into consideration immediately, things like more boards, you know, things like that. So those were taken care of right away, but after that, they hit the ground running with us, and there was -- it was a seamless transition, to be honest.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So it's fair to say that your initial command table just merged with theirs?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s what I would say.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. More -- on the same topic but more narrowed on the Critical Incident Command questions -- we can remove that PowerPoint, by the way - - just specifically on the Critical Incident Command structure and how it works, we understood from previous testimony that the CIC's purpose was to give autonomy to the CICs to take decisions on the go and to have their own autonomy and so on. I'm wondering how did it work with Dana Earley, Supt. Earley being a Critical Incident Commander for the same incident that you and - - that you were?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So again, that shared or unified command in stepping forward and stepping back. So for instance, a perfect example is the POU response. Supt. Earley put that plan together with her team, consulted us after. There were other times, for instance -- and I don’t want to jump ahead too often or too much -- but on the Saturday night, for instance, there was a bomb threat. It was a tactical call. I stepped up and took a lead on that. So those are the kind of things -- you know, and again, even if I'm making decisions at that bomb threat, Dana was right next to me. We were talking about decisions as they're made, you know, because that’s that shared command. So that’s kind of the dynamic, if that helps. But that’s the model.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Yes, this provides a lot of clarity. Thank you. Maybe we can jump to February 11th, about the approval of the operational plan. We can pull up the operational plan, just to refresh your memory. It's WPS1440 page 2. That’s not the operational plan itself, but it's an email that presents the operational plan. I'm wondering -- it says that it's Inspector Younan who was in the planning team under Inspector -- under Supt. Earley, and the emails were about the plan. And he says: "Please reply all with your approval of the plan so that our municipal partners have the recorded approval." I just want to understand why it was necessary to have the approval recorded for your purposes?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So the part of Dana Earley's team was the Public Order Commanders, so that would be Jason Younan, Inspector Younan and Angela Ferguson. The two inspectors were in charge of their OPP Public Order Units. They would come up with the plan because they’re the subject matter experts. Just like in any critical incident, that’s what a Critical Incident Commander relies upon, their subject matter experts to come up with a plan, and then within the framework of Critical Incident Command, the Commander will either approve it or not approve it. May have questions about it, may have -- you know, may suggest things that may be added or deleted. But essentially, they have questions -- they’ll be able to approve or not approve that plan. So it wasn’t -- as a Critical Incident Commander, it’s not Supt. Earley’s job, or even maybe not even her subject matter expertise to physically make that plan. So that’s why it has to be approved by the Critical Incident Commander, because the CIC is essentially in charge of every decision that’s being made in that Command Team.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And that’s why you had to have her approval for your records?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, because -- in that planning team though, there was other POUs involved. We had other municipalities in that Public Order Unit. So the Public Order Commanders have come up with this plan. They send it to Supt. Earley, because that’s who is in charge of the Public Order Plan, and then she approves it, and in that process of approval, she consults with Insp. Degraaf, myself, whoever was there and, you know, “Is there any concerns?
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Excellent. Can we pull up OPP00004557? I understand this is the Overall Ambassador Bridge Operational Plan. I just have a few questions on it. I’m wondering, it took only two days, in fact, to come up with that plan. Do you have any insight to why it was so quick?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
This is why you rely on your subject matter experts. So, you know, this planning informally starts with those first few phone calls and emails to Supt. Earley, you know, “Hey, we might need some Public Order help.” So the situational reports were going to her and her team before they even came to Windsor. So they knew the geography, they knew what was going on with us, they knew what was happening with the protestors. So when they get there, subject matter experts can work very quickly to come up with a plan to essentially clear the bridge. And that’s what happened.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And on February 11th as well, not only the plans were approved, but the Province declared a State of Emergency under the MCPA and there was a civil injunction that went into effect?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
That’s quite a busy day.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, it was a very busy day, actually. It was.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Did either of those, either the Declaration of Emergency, or the injunction, have any effect on the plan or the operation itself?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I would say the injunction was impactful for us. It allowed -- obviously, just another tool for us during the whole planning of everything. But it allowed us to really focus on exterior or perimeter roads, as opposed to just Huron Church. So if there was parking -- and, you know, that came into play later. But towing cars off of side streets. That was -- the injunction was very helpful for things like that. It was another tool. Plus, of course, it was another charge that we would be able to lay if we had arrested anybody. The Emergency for the -- under the EMPCA really, I don’t think, was much of a consideration for us for this plan.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So I understand that charges were laid under the breaking of court order criminal offence ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
--- under the Criminal Code. Do you know if there were -- these charges were laid during the operation or afterwards?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, the rest were made during Public Order action on the 12th and 13th, and the subsequent charges were laid after that. Like, you know, the investigators then take the files and lay the information subsequent to the arrests. But prior to the injunction, we already had reasonable grounds for criminal mischief. Like I said, the injunction was simply another charge that we would be able to lay on the protestors upon arrest.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And I would like to move to the operation itself. I think we can remove that -- the plan. You explained in your witness summary that there was, perhaps, around 730 officers that participated in the operation and approximately 500 OPP officers that were present? Is that ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Those are estimations. I think my point, I was never involved in the scheduling. I was involved in some discussions with the officers we had scheduling out of our training branch. It was hectic. We had people reporting that we didn’t know were reporting and, I mean, you can imagine the logistical -- you know, it was very difficult for our schedulers. So those were estimations, judging by what we knew the OPP had sent and other municipalities had sent us.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And do you have any understanding or insight about why so many officers were sent in the end, despite the fact that only 100 officers were asked at the beginning?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I really don’t have that information. I think that’s probably better directed at the OPP. But I would say, like, from my point of view, the 100 -- the original ask of 100 officers was simply an initial response to the beginnings of the blockade. The blockade grew enormously throughout the week and it really peaked on the Saturday night to really, and I call it the highest point of incivility that I’ve seen in a long time. So I would say that’s probably why. The number of officers, the conditions we were working in, it was cold, the snow, Public Order had done their thing that morning on the Saturday. They started their action. So I would say just -- and then they were -- I wouldn’t say that there were 700 officers at one point. I would say there was probably in and out, because there was officers going from Windsor to Ottawa and to Toronto and to all these other things. They were in and out and almost interchangeable at times, from my understanding anyways.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And what was WPS’ role during the operation itself? You mentioned a bomb threat. Was there any other things?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well we were side- by-side with OPP, and RCMP, and, you know, other municipal officers. So we would have, say, like, for instance, it came up earlier about swearing RCMP officers in. So before we could swear the RCMP officers in for provincial legislation, we would have to pair them with a municipal officer or an OPP officer to ensure that they would have those abilities to enact provincial offences. So we had -- at times, we had an OPP cruiser with two Windsor Police officers in it. Like, it was just -- it was shared resources for perimeter control, for any kind of uprising that we might need, like the bomb call, or we had an abandoned house fire at one point in the area. So these are the kind of things that we were trying to manage that perimeter with the boots on the ground, those initial officers other than POU.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And the operation lasted from the February 12th to the 13th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And would you consider the operation a success?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I would consider it very successful. We had -- eventually, I think we charged 44 people. I think that was the number. We had no injuries, no property damage, and we were able to clear that bridge relatively quickly, in my book anyways.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And now moving on from the operation, on February 13th, I understand that WPS, the Windsor Police, and the OPP both adopted a Joint Traffic Plan?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
We can pull up the plan, if possible. It’s WPS0000711 at page 2. So the goal of that plan was to prevent a further blockade?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And if we go at page 2, there’s that mission statement, which is basically the same of the February 9th operational plan, about maintaining -- establishing and maintaining a safe flow of traffic respecting individuals’ Charter Rights. If we move -- yeah, it’s here as well. The Immediate Action Plan, it says what you mentioned, that: “If members observe an imminent highway blockade and form reasonable grounds an offence is about to be committed, officers will intervene to prevent a blockade if it is safe to do so.” I’m just curious as to how both interact, preventing a blockade and respecting individual's Charter rights and freedom?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So at this point, when we had control of the area through jersey barriers and police presence, we had no problems with protesters that were still in the area on sidewalks, and there wasn't very many of them, but there were a handful, mostly up at the Tecumseh Road area at Huron Church, and that was okay. So that's -- that was still respecting people's right to come out and protest on the sidewalk. We don't want you to block critical infrastructure. And then relying again on the OPP's experience in these long drawn out protracted demonstrations, we adopted this plan, that mostly it was from their experience. And so we were able to control that area from, essentially, E.C. Row Expressway to the bridge through jersey barriers, and if there was protesters out on the sidewalks or even on foot in some of the parking lots, we just allowed it.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So the limits of a stay, sort to say, is blocking infrastructure or a highway, that was a no-go, but as long as it's off the highways ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, at this point we were dealing with, like probably under 10 protesters. Again, I'm still working midnights at this point, so the crowds at night were, you know, four, five in the morning, people were sleeping. So you might have five or six, seven protesters on the corner of Tecumseh and Huron Church. That was okay, we weren't going to remove them. They were off the road, they weren't, you know, in any danger, and they were allowed to protest.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Understood. So you briefly mentioned the plan itself on the ground consisted of establishing jersey barriers all along Huron Church Road. I think Mayor Dilkens explained as a -- this morning as a pipeline to allow the trucks to go directly from the 401 to the Ambassador Bridge. Is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct. We had left a safety out in case somebody accidentally got up and tied up in the -- at Tecumseh Road, but we didn't advertise that. If somebody came across and said, "Hey, I don't really want to go on the bridge, I'm just here on accident", there was an out for them. But essentially, it was a tunnel of jersey barriers from the expressway to the bridge, yes.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And members of the public were not allowed to just go on the highway without a lawful reason or justification on Huron Church Road?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, the bridge was open. If members of the public wanted to go over to the States they could have used that. But once they would have to enter at the expressway, which was very -- you know, a few kilometres south of the bridge.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, but they had to move forward and go towards Ambassador Bridge or else they could not just hang on on Huron Church Road.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, no. Yeah, they could not stop and -- no. We -- but we didn't have that problem, we didn't -- not to my recollection at this point anyways, we had anybody stop and try and block that, but there was numerous threats of it. And that's why we would re-evaluate every single day to where the traffic plan was and when can we start demobilisation of that traffic plan. It was very measured and very conscious of what, you know, what the Intelligence was and what the potential threat of protesters coming back to the block the bridge. Again, open sources, we were hearing people asking other protesters from Ottawa and Toronto to come down to Windsor. "We're going to come at them again. We're going to block the bridge again." This was daily. So we would re-evaluate with our Intelligence our information every day, and then act accordingly from there.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So there were -- were there any situations where the traffic management plan was helpful in preventing any blockades?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was helpful every day.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I know it was a major inconvenience for the citizens of Windsor, and I think the Mayor explained it well. People on the west end trying to get to the other side or the east side of Huron Church was very difficult. I would hear it on the radio myself of our local radio stations, and you know, the frustration of the people because that was closed, or not closed, but that was -- we were controlling those roadways for a considerable amount of time. So we understood the frustration, but we just -- that's why we would re-evaluate every day. We really understood the importance of maintaining that posture there by the bridge to ensure that we wouldn't lose it again.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And just moving on to February 14th, the day the -- there was a declaration of emergencies by the Federal Government.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M'hm.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I'm wondering if you had any -- because of the injunction was enforced the EMCPA was in place, you had a traffic management plan, is there anything that the Emergencies Act added to the situation or helped you in any way in preventing further blockades?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I can't say operationally that we didn't use the Emergencies Act after that, but I can't imagine it didn't dissuade people from coming back, but I -- that's just a speculation. We did not use the Emergencies Act at all.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
So you would say it may have had a dissuasive effect but it was not used on the ground?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And moving further down the timeline, just to wrap up the Windsor story, we -- the WPS and OPP adopted the mobilisation plan as well, which it lasted until March 13 to fully mobilise I think OPP. It seems a bit long. Do you -- would you agree?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, yeah. If I'm a citizen of Windsor trying to cross, yes, it seemed long, but really felt it was necessary. And again, we're relying on the experience of the Ontario Provincial Police in these matters. So we would take their advice. We did -- in the demobilisation we did modify the plan more than once because of those re-evaluations daily of "Hey, are we at a spot where we can open up a little more than the plan says?" And we did that probably three or four times throughout those weeks, and... But it was very important to us, especially when we got up to Tecumseh Road, to take a very measured approach on reopening. We were very paranoid about it happening again.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Was there any threats, any Intelligence about a possible blockade happening further down ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Just on open source. So I don't recall any credible Intelligence or information from law enforcement, but I -- that's just my recollection right now, I could be wrong, I stand to be corrected on that. But certainly on the -- on open source, on all the social media, we had heard numerous pleas and numerous threats that it was going to happen again.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Now, that the Windsor story is complete, I just want to go to lessons learned, concluding questions for just a few questions. Would it be possible to pull up WPS000002? It's the same document that we viewed earlier about the debriefing by WPS about the Freedom Convoy event. If we can go on page 19, please. There's a mention about -- it's areas to improve about the initial patrolled response, which I understand is before the blockade happened or before OPP arrived?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M'hm.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
It mentions areas to improve, issues with the Operational Plan. Is that in reference to the February 4th plan?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I can't answer that at that point, it's -- that's not my document. I don't know what that's referencing. I would assume that that's what it's referencing. But again, we were a medium-sized service trying to police a city and deal with this at the same time. So -- and just because everyone didn't know about an Operational Plan and the ins and outs of an Operational Plan, you know, some of these opinions may come from that; right? Like, they didn't know what the -- you know, we weren't communicating what the Operational Plan is to everyone in the organisation.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
In your witness summary you mentioned that if WPS had a Public Order Unit at the time, it would have been able to come up with a better plan in responding to the initial stages of the blockade.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We may have. It was a very -- even I think the protesters were disorganised at the very beginning. Probably at the height of -- because we talked about this fractured leadership that they had, they were probably as disorganised at the beginning as throughout the whole protest. So if we would have had a Public Order Unit in place and the experience and the subject matter experts I would think that we might have been able to act accordingly because of the state of that initial few hours, but again, that's an assumption by me. I don't know, I don't have that experience in public order.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And it says also on that same slide on the second point on the left side, "Extremely resource intensive; only a fraction of patrol officers remained to take calls [...]; patrol personnel were totally burned out" So it was not just a POU issue. It was a resource issue as well.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was an enormous resource issue. We -- again, this is an opinion that someone had, but certainly, we had nowhere else to draw from other than our regular patrol and investigative personnel to police the bridge. So were our patrol personnel very tired and getting very burned out? I imagine they were, as were the OPP and all the other municipal officers that came into town for sure.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I would like to pull up COM0000822. It's the Adequacy and Effectiveness of Police Services Regulation, which I assume you're familiar with?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I didn't quite hear. So which regulation is it?
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry, it's the Adequacy and Effectiveness of Police Services Regulation. It's under the Police Services Act. It's ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And under Section 18, it mentions that, "Police forces shall have a public order unit. [...] Despite subsection..." Subsection 2 says, "Despite subsection (1), [...] a board may enter into an agreement [...] to provide the services [...] through another police force..." Are you aware of any agreement with another police force to have a Public Order Unit dispatched in case of a public order event?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We do not have a formal agreement with another police force. I think what -- and our policy is mirroring -- that mirrors this Adequacy Standard and this legislation. Essentially, what our policy says that we shall enter into an agreement in the event we need one. Like, for instance, the London Police had one right away when we asked for help and we signed it -- well, the mayor signed it, I think. So certainly, no one asked us to do that, but certainly, we are ready to, upon requirement, we would enter into an agreement for sure.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I think I have the policy you're mentioning. Can we pull up WPS00001877? I think that's the policy about Public Order Units deployment and the possibility of entering into an agreement.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Do you recognize - --
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, that's correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Is that the one you were mentioning?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Exactly.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is this the version that was enforced during the Freedom Convoy events?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I'm assuming it is, yes.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Can we go at point D on page 2, please? As you mentioned, it says that, "The Service shall provide [a] service[...] of a Public Order Unit through the provisions of an agreement with the [...] (OPP)."
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
I'm just not sure I understand why such an agreement was not entered upon prior to the Freedom Convoy events and ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
So that's -- that is very -- it's explainable. So the OPP provides many services to many municipal services throughout the province. For instance, we don't have a dive team. We don't have an agreement to use the dive team. When we need to use the divers, we gave a formal request to the Commissioner, "We would like to use your dive team for this investigation." No problem. They get sent down. There's no agreement. We need a technical expert in, say, in vehicles with extracting information from the computers. The OPP have those. Informal request goes to our Chief to the Commissioner, comes back, no problem, here you go. So there's no agreement for any of that. It's a Chief-to-Chief request. And certainly, this is no different. But if the Commissioner would have come and said, "Hey, we have an agreement, would you please sign it?" I'm pretty sure our Board would have signed it immediately.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
But this offer from the Commissioner never came to ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, we never -- as far as I know, we never received any agreement except from the London Police Service.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And you mentioned formal versus informal request for assistance. I just want to make sure I understand what's the difference between the two, especially as it relates to Public Order Units or assistance at large to a public order event. In your view, what's the difference between a formal or informal request?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay. So a perfect example of informal request was this Emergency Preparedness Committee that I sit on for the OACP. Again, we are meeting at least two, three times a week by -- just by -- on Zoom or Teams or whatever it was. And the discussion, at this time, before our blockade, was focussing on Ottawa and the Toronto weekend protests that were happening every weekend. So amongst police leaders at our ranks and superintendent, inspector, those were the requests saying, okay, who can send people to Ottawa? It necessarily wasn't POU specific, but it was who can spare some bodies for Ottawa, or who can send people to Toronto. So after our blockade was concluded, months went by. Ottawa had two other pretty robust protests, Rolling Thunder and there was another one, I don't remember the name of it, but we sent people from Windsor, because they needed people on ground. We don't have Public Order, but we sent resources because, you know, that was the right thing to do, and we felt that we really had a debt to actually pay for a lot of the other services. So that's just an example of an informal request. They would eventually be formalized through the Chiefs, which again, is covered in the Police Act. Chief makes a request to the Commissioner and that's one, you know, one of the ways that those -- or those formal requests are made. I can't see that a Superintendent is going to authorize these requests without the Chief knowing so.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And on February 4th, we know that Chief Mizuno had a call with Commissioner Carrique asking for assistance. Would that -- but I think you mentioned, it was not a formal request process since -- do you know why?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I can't really comment because I didn't know about that directly, like, I wasn't involved in that conversation. What I did get, what I think my testimony was that Chief Mizuno asked me to contact Chief Superintendent Thib, because those were -- that was a small request and that wasn't a POU request. That was a local request to get local resources from the local detachments, and I don't think that is something that necessarily the Commissioner was concerned with a local request to the local detachments.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And however, your -- when you reach out through Dwight Thib on the same day, would that be considered a formal request under the Police Services Act?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I would think that. Just the formal request of resources locally and the Commissioner knew about it through the conversation with the Chief, and but that's -- that was my direction. I was told to call Chief Superintendent Thib and that was my direction and that's what I did.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
And under the Police Services Act, I'm sure you're familiar. It's not necessary to pull it up, but the Commissioner of OPP has to provide the resources it deems -- he deems, or she deems necessary in response to a formal request for assistance. I'm wondering, there was no request provided on February 4th. I'm wondering, do you have any idea why is that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't, no. I don't. I think at the beginning of that process, we just -- we didn't have as big of an event on our hands.
Guillaume Sirois, Counsel (POEC)
Perfect. I have no further questions. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Thank you. Okay. So first up is the City of Windsor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. JENNIFER KING
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
So many of our questions -- oh, this is Jennifer King, Counsel for the City of Windsor. Most of our questions have already been canvassed. I do have a series of questions on one topic, the Windsor-Detroit marathon. So, Deputy Chief, you are a long-time resident of Windsor-Essex?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct, my whole life.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Then I would expect you're familiar with the Windsor Detroit Marathon?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I am.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
And you're familiar with the road closures and restrictions during the marathon?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Mayor Dilkens was asked some questions about the closure of the Ambassador Bridge during the marathon this summer.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Yes. And you were here for his testimony?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I was.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
You'll agree with me that generally, during the marathon, traffic is only restricted on the bridge, not entirely closed?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, that's a good question. I don't know that. I've never run the marathon, so I don't know. I would like to, but, no, I don't know if it's restricted or completely closed, but either way, it’s for a very small period of time.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Okay. And so that’s generally early in the morning on a Sunday?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It’s always on a Sunday I’ve worked it. It’s always on a Sunday. It’s usually very early, 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning, yes, for maybe a couple of hours.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Well, it’s our understanding that generally it’s only entirely closed this year. It was only entirely closed this year because there was construction at the same time. Were you aware that there was construction on the bridge this year?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Okay, thank you.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Thank you.
Jennifer L. King, Counsel (Win)
Those are all of my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Next is the Government of Canada.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ANDREW GIBBS
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Good afternoon, Deputy Chief - --
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good afternoon.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
--- Commissioner. My name is Andrew Gibbs and I am one of the counsel with the Government of Canada. Just briefly touching on some of the testimony you’ve given already, you mentioned that the leadership was quite divided, and you used the word “faction”.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Fractured.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Fractured.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s how I would describe it, yes. That was my opinion.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Okay. And so there were in fact multiple leaders and it made it very difficult to determine who was in charge.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. That’s what it seemed like.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
You also described the situation as “dynamic”. Would you say it was fluid?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Unpredictable?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Volatile?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And aggressive?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, at time.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
At times. On February 10th, were there threats made to block or blockade the Windsor Police Services Headquarters?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And why would that have been a concern to you?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, I mean it impacts our daily operations greatly. We -- our fleet vehicles are parked in the basement. I would imagine exiting and entering the building if it’s blocked would be very difficult. It would impact our employees coming in and out of work, I would imagine. It would just impact every -- every use of our operating -- you know, our operations every day.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And for those of us who are not police officers, that would mean you couldn’t come and help people if they called 911?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s exactly right.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Were there also threats to block the Windsor-Detroit Tunnel?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, there were.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And the Windsor Airport?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, there were.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And those threats did not materialize?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
But you couldn’t ignore them?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, we had to deploy resources to all three of those places that you mentioned, as well as very concerning -- that whole corridor where our headquarters is, it had hospitals and essential services that, if that area got blocked, it would have caused enormous problems for us, not mentioning the tunnel with what the mayor said was thousands of people going over there to work.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
You also mentioned, just in terms of general public safety and officer safety concerns, there was a bomb threat at the mayor’s house ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
--- that also took resources? I believe you mentioned two to three police cars were there for a week or two?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
There was a bomb threat behind the police lines on February 12th; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And it turned out to be not credible?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
But the threat was made?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That we had to deal with, yes. It was made ---
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And it was investigated?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- and we had to put resources to it, investigate it, and -- yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Was there also a drone flying over, a protester drone flying over the police enforcement operation on February 12th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I imagine there was. I don’t know for sure but I imagine -- there was all kinds of live footage that we were watching in the OIC that was open- source, and that was part of it.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Okay, thank you. And you mentioned that it was cold and there was snow. The officers were putting in a lot of overtime?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, we cancelled -- I cancelled the days off from -- I think it’s -- I would have to check the dates but I cancelled a week of rest days of our own officers, let alone the ask from the OPP and the municipal forces to be away from home and cancel their days off as well. So, yes, it was -- there was long, long days.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
So there was a lot of tension?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And I think you said people were burnt out?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
There was also a mention of children being involved. I believe the mayor mentioned that children were involved at the protest, and particularly when the police enforcement action was scheduled to take place on February 12th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
What impact does the presence of children in a mass protest have on police operations?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, the unpredictability of any crowd gathering is an enormous consideration for us. But in something like that, we had to make plans with Children’s Aid Society on arrest plans. We had resources dedicated to just Children’s Aid. Obviously, there’s a huge safety concern. There was talk on open-source communications that they were going to use children as human shields at one point. So there was all kinds of considerations for us to keep the welfare of children, you know, very, you know, safe.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Mr. Clerk, can we please turn up OPP00004539? And go to page 41 on this point. So Karel DeGraaf, you know who this is?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And this is an email from Karel DeGraaf to Dana Earley, the OPP Joint Commander, the unified command you mentioned earlier: "FYI regarding using children as a defensive tactic." And this is sent on February 11th. If you’ll scroll down, please, clerk, this appears to be an exchange of tweets. "Thank you. As more children with us, as less option to power for police. Children is our best weapon against them." And someone responds, essentially, that this is an evil strategy: "Children are not weapons or human shields. If this man wants to bring his family to a protest, he can do his research and should be aware of people who speak like you." Going down to the last tweet: "It is a war. They prepare for us with guns, cold water, gas." Is that consistent with the information that you were receiving with respect to children being used as, what you said, human shields?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Thank you. I only have a few minutes left. So I understand -- in summary, you’ve answered a lot of these questions already but I think you had mentioned that they were burnt out -- the officers were burnt out, and I think you believed -- I believe you said they were spread very thin across the province; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That was my opinion, that police resources across the province were getting spread thin, yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
So that would involve all police resources?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Certainly, because of the asks on the EPC Committee, and the public order being spread thin, and -- for sure.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And so you -- there are a series of documents. I won’t go through them but you were taken at one point to the justification for the 100 officers. And that, Mr. Clerk, is at WPS000000610. And Commission counsel took you to some of the basic numbers. I’d like to go to page 2 where you mentioned that -- scroll down a bit. I think it -- there should be a reference that says that: "Currently officers are being outnumbered and surrounded by protesters when confronted or approached."
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Is that an accurate description?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely. I watched it myself on open-source YouTube channels.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And you mentioned that you were trying to continue the regular Windsor policing at that time ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
--- because regular city life involves all sorts of things that sometimes require police assistance?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, we have a very busy police service, yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And do you think it would be fair to say that every city in the province of Ontario would involve that type of requirements for their police services?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And they were also being stretched thin?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And you’ve mentioned that this would happen, essentially, across the country, would it not?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s my opinion, yes, for sure.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And so turning lastly to the resurgence, you mentioned that you were quite concerned -- or the Windsor Police Force were quite concerned, as was the mayor, that this -- they could return, the protesters could return.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And in fact, Interim Chief Bellaire submitted an affidavit in support of the Windsor City motion to extend the injunction indefinitely; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And I won’t pull it up, but Interim Chief Bellaire swore an affidavit, which is found at WSP0000049, and in particular at paragraphs 44 to 54, he states that based on -- and I'm paraphrasing, but based on monitoring of social media, demonstrators are asking more locals to join, more vehicles are travelling to the area. Social media indicating further action from protesters expected. "It's not over. Regroup. We are not done. Slow roll is next." And finally, "Civil war time." Anti-police comments are also observed and the February 15th convoy of several transport trucks from Ottawa en route to Windsor was intercepted by police.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And in fact, Justice Morawetz, based on that evidence and other evidence, granted the interim injunction indefinitely?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Now, you stated that you did not use the Emergencies Act, sir, but is it fair to say that that’s because this resurgence did not materialize?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s what -- yes, that’s fair to say for sure.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
So in fact, we don’t know if it would have been needed?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And finally, with all of these local protests in all of the cities that you’d mentioned, including Sarnia, Toronto, Ottawa, Cornwall, Quebec City, Emerson, Coutts, and Surrey, British Columbia, and others, and the location and duration of a blockade is unpredictable, and when police resources are stretched thin and the officers are exhausted, would you agree that this leads to an increased risk of safety and security for the officers and the general public?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It certainly could.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
And that would exist wherever those protests may pop up?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Andrew Gibbs, Counsel (GC)
Those are my questions. Thank you very much, sir.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Thank you. Next is the Democracy Fund and Citizens for Freedom.
CROSS-EXAMIATION BY MR. ANTOINE D’AILLY
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Mr. Commissioner and Deputy Chief. I'm aware of the 10 minutes allotted here and brief as possible. So Registrar, could we pull up WPS000000102? Again, Deputy Chief, it's Antoine D'Ailly, counsel for Citizens for Freedom. In the interests of limited time, if you could answer yes or no where possible, is it your understanding that there's CCTV cameras posted along various intersections on Huron Church Road?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
There's traffic cameras, yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And those cameras include EC Row and Huron Church, which is about four kilometres away from the mouth of the bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'm not aware of EC Row. It could be.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
How about Huron Church at Tecumseh, about one kilometre from the bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And then Huron Church at College, which is about 50 metres from the foot of the bridge; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And this photo here, is this from a CCTV camera?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'm going to say that’s probably a drone picture.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
That one's from a drone?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Was somebody monitoring the CCTV cameras during the demonstration?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. They were actively being monitored.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And was this happening at the EOC?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And was your understanding that live CCTV footage or at least, you know, frequent screen shots are normally available to the public online from the CCTV cameras?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And was there ever a decision made by Windsor Police Service to restrict access of these cameras to the public?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Are you ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
To be honest, we didn’t -- this CTV camera was not very helpful, and the one at College was old and we had to put up our own camera, to be honest.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. But there was no decision to deliberately restrict access?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. This looks like the beginnings of what may form a blockade, and it looks like the police have vehicles there. Is this the Tecumseh and Huron Church intersection?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so this is about a kilometre away from the foot of the bridge; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Approximately.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you have any idea of when this particular photo was taken?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No idea. This was a dynamic intersection as well. It would be like this. There would be 50 cars there. It was dynamic.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Would it be fair to say this would be closer to the beginning of protest activity on Huron Church?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't know.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. You spoke earlier about this BearHug strategy, and indicating that there's almost like, this plaza around the mouth of the bridge. Is it fair to say that there's two ingress points and two egress points from the border itself?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'm only aware of one egress -- or sorry, one -- no, wait -- two egress and two in -- yes, sorry. You're correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so also you've got the northbound and southbound lanes coming out of that main entrance, and then two ancillary roads coming out to Wyandotte Street; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And we heard earlier in terms of the police establishing a circle of control or a perimeter. Would it be fair to say that that perimeter would be then set out around those points of ingress and egress?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That was part of it, but it was expanded to, you know, the intersections on Huron Church, expanded that way. But for sure, those would be part of it.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you have any indication when that initial circle of control was established?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I don’t.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Is it your understanding that on February 10th, a plan had already been put in place for Windsor Police Service to remove the protestors on Saturday, February 12th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
There was discussions amongst the POU plan to -- of what day it would be actioned, but I don't know exactly when it was. But that when initial plans formed, initial days.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Mr. Registrar, could we pull up WPS000000042, and page 2 of that document, please? I understand these are notes by Supt. Karel DeGraaf. We're unable to see who this email was sent to or from. Did you ever have a chance to see this email or the contents of Mr. -- Inspector DeGraaf's update?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I probably saw this at some point, but I don’t recall it.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so is it fair to assume that this was indeed produced February 10th, that Inspector DeGraaf reports: "There's no significant issues with managing the protesting and the numbers have remained consistent compared to the last three days."
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It could be. So Inspector DeGraaf worked mainly days, and at night, I put myself on nights because of this. My experience, these kind of situations, that’s when it ramps up.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
There's -- could we scroll down a little bit further here to the sixth point, right? And so on February 10th -- so this is before the City or the AMPA applied for their injunction, there's already an arrest plan in place, there's already an idea that removal's going to begin on Saturday, and there's already indications that Children's Aid will be involved; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was probably in the development of the plan, that’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And you had indicated that at some point right around February 10th, there was a shift to this joint command with OPP. Are you aware whether or not this plan was produced before or after joint command was established?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, this would have been after, because OPP was in charge of the POU plan, of developing it.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. Mr. Registrar, could we pull up CFF00000106? So Deputy Chief, you spent some time in the EOC and had a good briefing in terms of what was going on during the -- throughout the week?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Twenty-one (21) days.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so is this an accurate depiction, I suppose, of the protest and the police on February 12th, being the Saturday?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That looks accurate, yeah.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And can you identify which intersection this is at? Would that be Huron Church and College?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It looks like College to be with the berm on the top left there. It looks the university property, but I can't say for sure, but that’s what it looks like.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And it does look like there then on the northbound lanes there's a number of police cars in those four -- or three or four northbound lanes there, and behind the police line, there's a number of police vehicles there as well; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And it appears there may be a small number of protestor vehicles in the southbound lanes, both in front and behind that police line; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And would you agree with me that the police reports that were produced indicated that a towing plan was successfully executed on February 12th and 13th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And earlier, you mentioned multiple threats that were made or received. Do you agree with me that although resources are required to investigate and respond, not all threats in social media posts are credible?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, for sure.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And would you also agree with me that the threats, whether it's to the airport or the police station or these bomb threats by and large did not materialize?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, but credible or not, we still have to ---
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. Resources have to be ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
For sure.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
If I could pull up two multi-media database videos? You had indicated earlier that police were, in general, respectful of protesting on the sidewalk, and that you understood this was part of the injunction that lawful protest was still allowed as long as you're not impeding traffic; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And so if we could put this first video up again? That’s CFF00000015? It's a 30-second video here. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] And then if we could pull up one more video as well? CFF00000004. And while that video is coming up, Deputy Chief, would you agree with me that the records indicate that there was at least 44 arrests and that the majority of people that were arrested were charged with both mischief and for disobeying a court order?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Let’s watch this video here. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] Would you agree with me that it appears that there’s a woman sitting peacefully on the grass there being arrested?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, but the roadway here, under the legislation, is fence line to fence line.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. I ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We’re trying to establish a perimeter in a controlled area. That’s what we’re doing.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
But the sidewalk and the grass are both on the interior of the fence lines that you’re alluding to?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Can we agree that she’s not impeding vehicular traffic from her location there?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We were trying to clear out an area, so that’s why she’s getting arrested.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Understood. And would agree with me that both of the videos that we just saw are police enforcement on the weekend, either the 12th or the 13th of February?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I would agree with that.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Thank you. And just quickly, in terms of the past protests, I understand police were in charge of monitoring, then went back as far as June 24th, 2020. Do you recall about 100 protestors outside of the Windsor Essex County Health Unit when the first mask section 22 order was implemented?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I do.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you also recall hundreds of protestors in front of City Hall when the City implemented a more restrictive mask mandate than the Health Unit did?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I believe so.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And more than 100 protestors in January of 2021 marching down Oullette, one of the main streets in Windsor on the road towards the Health Unit with concerns about serious adverse reactions to a segment of the population from these vaccination mandates?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t recall that that’s why, but I recall the walking on Oullette, yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you recall thousands of people, or at least 1,000 people at the flag August 28th, 2021 with concerns about risks of serious bodily injury, talking about myocarditis and pericarditis, issues with vaccination?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t recall ever being a protest of 1,000 people, but weekly there was protests at the flag, yes.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Okay. And what about September 29th? Do you agree that there was reports that there was hundreds of people protesting across the street from Windsor Regional Hospital because of the termination of nurses, doctors, and other front line hospital staff?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I recall that.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you also recall a silent protest with at least 1,000 people at the flag on September 18th, 2021 in response to the termination of first responders and City employees by the City of Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Again, the reason I don’t know, but, yes, protests were happening weekly.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
And do you also recall that instead of placing employees on a leave of absence until the end of the COVID-19 period, as provided for in the Employment Standards Act and the Infectious Disease Emergency Leave, that the City of Windsor made a choice, an intimidating choice, threatening the economic security of many of its employees, that they would be terminated, rather than on a leave of absence if they refused to accept the Government’s medicine into their body?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I remember a vaccine policy, but I don’t know anything about that. I had nothing to do with that.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
Are you aware of any Windsor Police Officers that no longer have a job because of their medical decisions?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I don’t think so.
Antoine D’Ailly, Counsel (DF / CfF / JCCF)
No further questions. Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next is the OPP.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. JINAN KUBURSI
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Commissioner, good afternoon.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good afternoon.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And good afternoon, Deputy Chief. I’m Jinan Kubursi, here representing the Ontario Provincial Police today. So we’ve heard your evidence further to questions from Commission Counsel regarding intelligence that the Windsor Police Service, you and your colleagues, were aware of and receiving in late January and early February. You recall ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- discussing that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And so it seems to me it’s accepted, or well established at least, that as far as you’re concerned at the Windsor Police Service, that the communication flow, the receipt of the intelligence information prepared by the intelligence Bureau at the OPP was -- it was an effective communication system. The distribution for the Hendon Reports and so on.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I would say it’s very effective.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Yes. And so in addition to that intelligence that you were receiving from the Ontario Provincial Police, I understand that Windsor Police Service also had some of its own intelligence and information that was being locally gathered?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And would it be also fair to say that with all of that intelligence, and the benefit of that information, it was still not entirely clear or certain what was going to happen as these slow rolls proceeded in the area of Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I agree with that completely.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so Windsor Police Service planned based on the information that you had?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And also, you were in regular communication with a number of your OPP colleagues at different levels across the organization?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so can we say that there was effective communication, information sharing, and cooperation that was taking place between the OPP and the Windsor Police Service throughout this time period?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I could say that.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. I’d like to ask you a bit about the discussions that we’ve heard took place at the Emergency Committee. I’m not sure if that’s ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Oh, the Preparedness Committee. Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Emergency Preparedness Committee at the OACP, I understand.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And you were a participant in that committee?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And we heard that there was some discussion about what was happening in the region.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
M’hm.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And in particular, were you familiar with what was happening in the area of the Blue Water Bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
A little bit. Are you talking -- you’re referring to right before ours started? Or right in that same time period?
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right around that same time period.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
A little bit -- yes. A little ---
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I believe a document was pulled up earlier today ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- indicating that on around February 6th there was some activity around the Blue Water Bridge and that the OPP had restricted or blocked parts of Highway 402?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I recall.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You’re familiar with that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I expect we may hear a bit more evidence about that from Supt. Diana Earley from the OPP who will be appearing here tomorrow, but from your awareness of the situation, I’d just like to ask you, is it possible or was it considered as an option in Windsor to try to execute something similar to what was done in the area of the Blue Water Bridge? Or are there simply differences in the situation that, you know, lead to different decisions about planning?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Certainly. Yes. We had those conversations. So it’s my understanding of the Blue Water Bridge, I’m well aware of the 402 coming off the 401. It’s one exit when you’re going west bound. And there was farm equipment, from my recollection, trying to block that area. Police took a proactive stance there, the OPP, and stopped that one road coming off the 401. And like any highway, there’s exits and entrances along the way. But limited. So a little bit more manageable from an emergency preparedness and emergency management, you know, lens, where our infrastructure is kilometres long, side streets everywhere. So we did discuss blocking access to Huron Church. That leads to blocking access to the other -- where the 401 splits -- Heron Church goes to Dougall. Dougall goes right to our tunnel, and the hospital, and all these other things that we wanted to keep the traffic away from. We did not want to put any focus on the tunnel, because that was our main access for our citizens that work in Detroit and in Michigan, plus the hospital was a very big concern for us as well. So in those initial discussions we just -- we could not -- we did not have the resources. We couldn’t -- it was just a -- logistically, there was no way we could block all those intersections and shut down Windsor, essentially, from incoming traffic, like they did at 402.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So from what you’re describing, even those of us who don’t know the geography of Windsor as well as you do, it seems clear that just the geography and the nature of the approach to the Ambassador Bridge, just gives rise to a lot more complications with any effort to stop the flow of traffic in that direction.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So I understand that a plan was developed on around February 7th, I understand, to focus on the intersection right at the entrance to the bridge.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And would it be fair to say that based on the information that you knew at that point, that seemed to be a reasonable approach?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was reasonable and really we -- other than the fact that we didn’t know what the tactic might be, that was the most reasonable tactic that we could use.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And so ultimately that plan didn’t prove to be successful in dealing with the blockade entirely, and then, as we’ve heard in the evidence, things started to develop very quickly, and conversations were happening at different levels within the OPP regarding provision of resources to assist Windsor in dealing with this developing blockade.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And we heard that a team of PLT officers was among the first of the officers that were deployed to Windsor to assist and lend their expertise.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And then in addition to that, there’s been some discussion of the request for 100 officers. So I’d just like you to make clear for us, when we’re referring to those 100 officers, is it correct that you’re referring to frontline uniform officers who might be described as officers who could take on general duties; ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- patrolling, monitoring intersections?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s exactly what ---
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Those sorts of duties?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So that number of officers certainly doesn’t include the number of officers that might be required for a Public Order Unit operation?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely not.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And those determinations came later after the shared command or unified command, as it’s also been referred to, was established, starting on around February 10th when Supt. Earley arrived.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Commission Counsel -- just moving to that time period. Commission Counsel referred you to an email, WPS1440, that was the email that was sent to Supt. Earley seeking her approval for a Public Order Unit Plan. Thank you for pulling that up. And you just reviewed this document with Commission Counsel, but I’d like to just pull up what I believe to be the attachment to this email, which is WPS1441. Clerk, if you could please pull that up as well, just so that we can see that attachment. And Deputy Chief, I’d like you to just take a quick look at it to confirm that this is the Public Order Deployment Plan; it’s dated February 12th.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s it.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So this was developed by the planners that arrived with Supt. Dana Earley, and were working with you.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. Like, yeah, they developed the plan.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. So there was -- when you speak of the shared command or the unified command, it appears that an effective way of putting that into operation was to play to the strengths of the different organizations.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Exactly right.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Right. And since the OPP had POU experience and then some other planning experience, that was taken care of by the OPP team.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Absolutely, 100 percent. That was -- that was the -- again, especially with my background, that was the ask. That was the ask, for them to come in and provide us their experience, and that’s what they did, admirably.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
And given your local expertise in the City of Windsor and policing in the City of Windsor, obviously your focus might have been on issues that require that kind of expertise.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s right.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Is that also fair? Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
But that being said, a lot of consultation went, you know, afterwards, both ways, so...
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Of course.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I’d also just like to refer as well to OPP4560, and ask you, Deputy Chief, were you also -- or I expect you also had the opportunity to review the full set of plans that was prepared by the team.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
So this is a package of documents that were prepared by the OPP, but if you scroll down, Clerk, I just want to bring this document to attention. If you could scroll down further, please, several pages, it also will include a copy of that Public Order Plan, as well as some other supporting documents that supported the planning process. Okay, we can leave that for now. I expect we’ll look at that in more detail with Supt. Earley. I’m mindful of the time, Commissioner. So I would like to also ask you, Deputy Chief, so as the plan was then, you know, ready to be implemented, as determined by the Command Team -- and this happened fairly quickly, as I understand it.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You know, some might be surprised to see that a plan containing all the required elements was produced within a matter of days, but that is the reality.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, that’s a testament to the experience that they bring.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. And we’ve heard some reference to the effectiveness of the OPP PLT officers who came onto the scene to support the work that some of the Windsor Police Service Liaison Officers had also been working towards, in developing rapport and communication with the protesters. Yes?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
I take it you became aware that on the 11th of February, there was an effort to come to some kind of resolution with the protesters who had indicated through a PLT officer that the protesters would like to speak to someone from the provincial government, and they were asking for a letter, essentially, to that effect.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
You’re familiar with that? So I’d just like to pull up that document, Mr. Clerk. It’s WPS1454. I believe my friend, Mr. Curry, I think alluded to this earlier, but I’d just like to pull it up on the screen and, Deputy Chief, have you take a look at it. Right. So if we scroll down a little bit, we see that this is February 11th; it’s addressed to Comm. Carrique. And if we continue to scroll down, it’s from Sylvia Jones, and it says: “The Government of Ontario is proposing that a meeting occur within an agreeable time period, with a select group of protest leadership...” And so on. So you’re familiar with this resolution attempt ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I am.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- that was undertaken? I understand that this letter was delivered to the protesters on the evening of February 11th.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, I’m aware of that.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
That’s correct? But ultimately it unfortunately did not lead to a resolution of the blockade ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
--- of the bridge. And in that regard, what I mean is the bridge continued to be blocked.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. If I might just have one moment? Deputy Chief, you were taken to a debrief document by Commission Counsel that had a number of comments about the experience that had taken place throughout the protest and the blockade, and then the resolution of the blockade. And you noted that you thought it was, you know, expressing opinions of particular individuals that were present there. I'd just like to ask you what, in your view, if you were asked to debrief, what would you say were the lessons learned, the things that worked or things that didn't work?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Sure. I think that a lot of the document is true. Like, you know, like, this document is all about transparency for us. We're trying to improve. We're trying to develop policy and procedure that can maybe one day mirror the experience of the OPP. So these kind of things, like, internal communication was a big one, improving that. Improving who was actually in the EOC, not at the Command table but in the EOC for, like, say, for finance, and for maybe the Executive Officer or the Chief should have been there for a better communication, for internal communication. These are the things that, you know, we right away realize that, you know, we're learning, and certainly there was -- there would be some changes, but the things that worked were when the OPP came into town, we were completely welcoming. And the -- that seamless integration of Superintendent Earley's team with our team, everybody was pulling the rope in the same direction, and that was what helped us. That was our success.
Jinan Kubursi, Counsel (ON-OPP)
Okay. Okay. Those are all my questions. Thank you very much.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next is former Chief Sloly's counsel.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Thank you, Commissioner.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. TOM CURRY
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Deputy Chief, Tom Curry for former Chief Sloly.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
A few minutes and just a few questions.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Just to get your help as a person who's been in policing as long as you have been and holding the roles that you -- or holding the positions and ranks that you have held. You mentioned the limitations on the Service's ability to act on information as opposed to intelligence. Do you recall that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't -- no, I don't. Like, if that's what I said, I don't know if we had an inability to act on information. It was the inability or maybe the desire to act on information at times that was not legitimate or confirmed or things like that. That's ---
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Fair enough.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- maybe what I meant.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Maybe I'll -- maybe I can ask you about this. Your colleague who's in the role now of Chief, Chief Bellaire ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- he gave a statement to Commission Counsel. I'm not going to turn it up, but can I just read you this? He isn't going to testify, so I'm just going to get you to see whether he has captured the idea that you have -- that I understood you were expressing. And this is in relation to the February 6th information about the slow roll and the possibility that protesters had threatened to block the Ambassador Bridge. Do you recall that on the 6th learning that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
What Chief Bellaire said, and this is just for reference on page 2 of his statement, he said, "However, he stated that he was reluctant to interfere with the flow of traffic to and from the bridge in the absence of compelling intelligence because of the importance of the bridge to international trade." (As read)
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Is that a sentiment that you agree with?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
As a Critical Incident Commander, I mean, I can't disagree with it, but I certainly was not willing to interject in that point to escalate the situation.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right. In other words, not -- you weren't going to be -- on the basis of what you had heard of a threat, you weren't going to go closing roads all ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- over town ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We were not.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- and disrupt things.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And I don't know how -- when you say earlier that you were following the events in Ottawa, you understood that that was a much larger, much more significant and complex protest than the one that you were dealing with?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I would agree.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
The number of vehicles that actually blocked this critical infrastructure strikes me as a very small number. Do you agree?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, compared to what Ottawa's dealing with, I would say yes, but, I mean, we had times we were estimating up to a 100, 150 vehicles.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
150? And as -- and the low end, for the Commissioner's purposes, sometimes I saw numbers that were below 50 even as they came and went?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'd have to trust you on that. I don't ---
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay. Well, that's -- don't -- we'll leave ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
My intelligence was going by drone shots and things like that. I mean, 10 kilometres away. Right.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Very had to get actual information about it. Tell the Commissioner if you would, please, where were these plates -- where were these vehicles coming from? What do you got on the plates?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Ontario, I would -- most of them. There were some locals. As we ran plates, the officers on grounds running plates, you know, there was different areas of the province.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Right.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I would say mostly Ontario though.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And were there any from outside of Ontario?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don't recall, sir, I really don't.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay. And therefore, we wouldn't know -- you wouldn't have any good intelligence as to whether any of them had originated at the protest in Ottawa and then come down to Windsor?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
A couple of then just very quick things, resources. If I understand what you were telling us, you -- when resources were required and it was obvious that, first of all, that the Windsor Police Service was overwhelmed by this ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- couldn't handle it itself ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- that the main goal is to get the resources in town, and you can formalize the requests afterwards. I think you talked about Inspector to Inspector and then having a more formal request go from the Chief to the Chief as needed; is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, that's fair.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And the -- you were asked by my friends from the Commission about whether you knew about the fact that the Chief, that is your Chief, had sent a letter to the Minister, to Minister Jones to -- or Solicitor General Jones and Minister Mendocino on February 9th, and you indicated you did not know that at the time?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I don't think I did. I mean, I was working midnights at the time. I don't think I did.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Well, and it reflects, doesn't it, what might be euphemistically referred to as the fog of war. There was a lot going on.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And the environment was very complex and complicated.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It was.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
You couldn't be expected to know every single thing that was going on in the Service; is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I mean, we all had our roles. My role was Critical Incident Command. I was either working or sleeping at that point.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Probably very little of the ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Very little of the - --
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
--- of the sleep.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- last, yes.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And then finally, can I just ask you a question about Critical Incident Command?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Certainly.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
First of all, you remained the police of jurisdiction. You've told us that.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Superintendent Earley's -- and she's coming here, but Superintendent Earley described in her statement, and I anticipate she will say, that there was a delay in the -- in undertaking the operation, as a consequence of the letter that -- or that you've heard about and that you saw.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Were you aware of that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, I was not.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And did you know that the decision to delay the operation was reviewed by Commissioner Carrique and a Deputy Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner Harkins, who I'm going to use the language overruled or at least expressed the view that Commissioner -- or that Superintendent Earley should not pause the enforcement out of concern about the potential impact of that letter from the Solicitor General. Were you aware of any of that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I -- no, I was not aware of that. I was aware of a possible date change, but I was not aware when it went back to the 12th.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And did you know that what Superintendent Earley was concerned with was that if a letter was going to go to Windsor protesters from the Solicitor General, that it might have an impact up in Ottawa, and that maybe we better -- maybe she thought we better get that letter up to Ottawa, which she did.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Were you aware of any of that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, not at the time.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
And then finally, am I right that you became aware that in terms of the chain of command and who needs to approve what, that before an OPP Public Order Unit operation is rolled out, that it is not just up to the Critical Incident Commander, but rather a Deputy Commissioner has to authorize that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That is -- I don't know that. That may ---
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- be an OPP policy, but I ---
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
That's fine.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- that certainly wasn't a Windsor policy.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Okay. Right. Understood.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Well, we can ask Superintendent Earley. Thank you for your help.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Thank you, sir.
Tom Curry, Counsel (Peter Sloly)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next is the Ottawa Police Service.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DAVID MIGICOVSKY
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Good afternoon, Deputy Chief Crowley. My name is David Migicovsky. I'm Counsel for the Ottawa Police Service.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good afternoon.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
You served as the Critical Incident Commander during the day shift; is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No ---
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
During the ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
--- night shift.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
--- night shift; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And in that regard, am I correct that you had operational autonomy to make necessary decisions under the incident command system?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And so you would be operating at the operational level?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And the level above you would be the chief at the strategic level?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
But there’s only one level above you; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And so unlike in Ottawa where we had an incident commander, an event commander, and a major incident commander, and then a chief, that wasn’t comparable to the situation in Windsor, was it?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, that’s -- you’re correct in saying that.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And Chief Mizuno and Deputy Bellaire respected your autonomy and didn’t interfere with your operational decisions?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Completely respected it, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And that’s an important aspect of how the incident command system is supposed to work; am I correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
You’re correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And you shared command with the OPP but that’s because the Windsor Police Service recognized that in an operation of this nature, the OPP obviously had much more experience and expertise than the Windsor Police Service had?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Lesson learned from Ottawa, I believe you learned a number of lessons based on what had happened in Ottawa, and these are things that you would not otherwise have known; is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s fair.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And so, in fact, in -- I won’t call up the document but I believe in one of the documents, you talked about benefitting from the hindsight of Ottawa’s -- of enjoying the benefits of the hindsight from Ottawa’s experience, and that impacted how Windsor decided to proceed; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
On certain things, the things that I talked about earlier, certainly, but not everything. I mean, like, for instance, when the OPP came down and we, you know, started to share command and work as a team, that was just the way I -- it went. Like, that was just -- that was an accepted practice in my book. That’s how I wanted to work. And I’m sure Supt. Earley will same the same thing -- or -- and should say the same thing because that’s -- it just worked that way.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And another example of learning from Ottawa was -- I believe we saw in one of the documents -- again I won’t turn it up -- when it came to looking at the message to be given to demonstrators, I think it was a bit of a cut and paste from what Ottawa had done; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I can’t -- I can’t confirm that, sorry.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
I can call up the document if that’ll help. It’s WPS00001017. And so you’ll see this is simply a prepared statement if required for future use. It very much mirrors what Ottawa Police put out, and I made very few changes to what they had. And then underneath, if you scroll down, you’ll see that was the message given to demonstrators.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Okay, just judging by the time, I was not at work yet. I was still on midnights of the email, but I certainly can’t disagree that maybe it is the same.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Thank you very much. You can take that down, thank you. From the outset, as I understand it, Windsor Police Service tried their very best to respect the right to peaceful assembly ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
--- keeping lines of communication open ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
--- and, very importantly, using police discretion?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And using police discretion means sometimes officers need to retreat when crowds get aggressive? In fact, I think you told us an example in which you witnessed that; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It’s part of their use-of-force model, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And just -- I want to just briefly conclude by talking about the intelligence, and I understand that the first Hendon Report that has a possible to a blockade in Windsor was January 31st, but there wasn’t a lot of information about it; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
You didn’t know numbers. You didn’t know dates. And although I understand -- after that, then, on February 4th, I gather there were some social media reports suggesting a possible blockade but, again, not a lot of information; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct, sir, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And I understand that although you had some advance information then about a possible blockade on January 31st to February 4th, the specific operational plan wasn’t in place when the bridge initially shut down on the 7th; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
You’re talking about the Public Order Plan?
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Yes.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, that was not in place, no.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And it’s not always possible to be completely prepared in advance; is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That is fair, yes.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And so I believe on February 8th, there was a general request, we heard, to the OPP for officers, and that was followed on February 9th with that letter that we saw earlier for the 100 officers, which gave some information, but that didn’t provide a complete plan; was it?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No it was not a complete plan at all.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And ultimately what was required was -- a POU operation was necessary to end the matter?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
And that means there’s going to be arrests, there’s going to be criminal charges ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Likely.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
--- and it’s an escalation; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. It is an escalation, for sure.
David Migicovsky, Counsel (Ott-OPS)
Thank you very much. I have no further questions.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Thank you, sir.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Next is the National Police Federation.
Lauren Pearce, Counsel (National Police Federation)
Hi there. This is Lauren Pearce for the National Police Federation. Our questions have been asked already. We have no further questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Thank you.
Lauren Pearce, Counsel (National Police Federation)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Next are the Convoy Organizers.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BRENDAN MILLER
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Good evening.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good evening.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
For the record, Brendan Miller appearing as counsel for Freedom Corp., which represents the protesters that were in the City of Ottawa in January and February. Sir, if we could first, Mr. Clerk, have just the document that my friend referred to, OPP00004539; could we bring that up and go to the page that he was on, page 42, where that tweet is? Okay, so that’s the tweet that my friend put to your earlier; fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Fair.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right. And can we scroll down with the commentary. Okay. Who is that individual? Do you know who posted that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I have no idea. I don’t even know if I ever saw this back then.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. You don’t know if they even were at the Windsor Bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Don’t know.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Right. You don’t even know if that’s a real account?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I don’t know.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. Can you agree with me -- and I just want to put, sort of, as I understand -- and these are no my words I’m about to put to you but I want to know if you agree with the following with respect to online social media and spaces. So, “The anonymity of an online space allows individuals to post commentary that they would not normally say in public. Many posts in this space are best articulated” -- and again, this is not my words -- “as shit posting. Confirmation bias: strategic analysis must be driven by direct- evidence collection and assessment as opposed to reliance on social media posting as it lacks context and where the poster’s bias may not be considered.” Would you agree with that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Potentially, yes, but I can say that -- like I said, I don’t even think I saw this.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Yeah.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
But when it talks about “real evidence”, when I heard the protesters themselves on the open chat talking about human shields -- children as human shields and seeing a picture with children holding hands across the intersection here in -- Church and College in the early stages, that’s hard evidence for me.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. And of course you followed up on investigating that and making sure that, you know, that wasn’t an issue?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Out Special Investigations Unit was definitely involved and they -- to deal with the children, the harms against children, along with CAS, for sure.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Okay. Can we scroll down to page 44, please? Okay. And so this is your -- an OPP Intelligence Assessment of Windsor. Can we scroll down. And do you want to just to take a minute to read that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
What’s the date on this, sir, 12th? Okay, thank you -- 4:00 in the morning.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
And you can agree there that the report there from the 12th from the OPP says: "No persons were observed but believed to be inside the camper." If we can scroll down, "Only Canadian flags observed." That's it. So you can agree based on that report, as of the 12th, according to the OPP, that wasn't really an issue.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Not at this time, for sure.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
And again, we -- you agreed possibly with what I said to you with respect to essentially the validity of relying on social media alone; right?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We did not rely on it alone, but I would agree with that, you cannot rely on it alone, yes.
Brendan Miller, Counsel (Freedom Corp / Convoy Organizers)
Thank you.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next, the Ottawa Residents Coalition.
Christine Johnson, Counsel (Ottawa Coalition of Residents and Businesses)
Hi there. Christine Johnson for the Ottawa Residents and Businesses. We have no questions for this witness. Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next is the City of Ottawa.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. ANNE TARDIF
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Good evening, Deputy Chief. My name's Anne Tardif. I am one of the lawyers representing the City of Ottawa.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Good evening.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Mr. Clerk, if we could put up WPS000000216. All right. And if we could go to page 8. Well, actually, let's just identify the document first. There we go. Deputy Chief, these are the scribe notes for the Critical Incident Commanders during the period in question. Is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
These are the Windsor scribe notes, yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Sorry, the WPS scribe notes, right, for the Windsor CIC.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Oh, sorry, I didn't hear you say that. Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Yes.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
They're WPS scribe notes for the -- yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
I may not have said it, it's late in the day.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yeah, I hear you.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And thank you for that. And so these would have been scribe notes for you during what we're calling the midnight shifts and Inspector Degraaf during the dayshift; fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct, yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And we've heard some evidence from the Mayor this morning about his being reminded or advised at some point that he perhaps should not have made the - - the concerns about making specific requests for additional resources public. And I just wanted to go to page 8 of this document first. Just to situate us in time, do you see the date there, Deputy Chief, February 9th?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And if we could scroll down to page 11, it'll still be February 9th, but just to situate us. At timestamp of 11:35, please, Mr. Clerk, if we could scroll down. Do you see there, it says, "CIC Supt Mike McDonell." And he's a Superintendent with the OPP; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And then it says: "[C]omm's OPP liaison via phone. CIC relay message from him..." Being Superintendent McDonell: "...to Chief & also to Mayor, not discuss any requests or additional resources. Goes against/contrary messaging from OPP and RCMP. Prompts protesters to gather strength and intensity..." That should perhaps be "intensify presence". Do you see that?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
So I take it that Superintendent McDonell from the OPP was asking the Windsor CIC to relay to the Chief of Police and to the Mayor their advice or their request that any request for additional resources not be discussed publicly. Is that fair?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's fair, yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
And if we scroll to the 11:35 timestamp. That message, I guess, was relayed; correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'm assuming. I -- this was a dayshift, so I wasn't there for this part. I'm assuming it was relayed, yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
If it's in the scribe notes, fair to assume that it was ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It's fair.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
--- in fact relayed?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Anne Tardif, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you very much. Those are my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next, call on the Government of Alberta.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
Good evening. Can you hear me?
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Yes.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
All right, thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. STEPHANIE BOWES
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
My name is Stephanie Bowes appearing on behalf of the Government of Alberta. I just have a couple of questions today. You've already been taken to the letter that was sent by Chief Mizuno to both Minister Blair and Minister Jones. I don't intend to call that up again, but I understand from your responses to Commission Counsel's questions earlier, that you were not aware of that letter. Is that correct?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That's correct.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
And in the -- one of the requests within that letter was a request for tow trucks, including heavy tow trucks for large transport vehicles. Is it fair to say that you were not aware of this request for tow trucks as well?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
It could be. I don't recall to be honest. I know that we were in need of those kind of services. We only had the one contracted service in Windsor, but I can't say that if I knew that or not.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
Do you recall if you received any assistance in the form of tow trucks?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
At the POU Action Day, we did receive help from the State of Michigan. They ended up sending a handful of trucks, tow trucks over to Windsor. They were staged at Mic Mac Park, which is approximately 4 kilometres from the bridge, but we did not use them.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
Okay. And were you -- are you aware if there was any response ever received by the Windsor Police Service to those requests from -- to Minister Blair or Minister Jones?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'm not aware of any.
Stephanie Bowes, Counsel (AB)
All right. Thank you. Those are all my questions today.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Thank you.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. Next, call on the Windsor Police Service.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. I am Tom McRae for Windsor Police Service.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. THOMAS McRAE
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Can I ask you to go, please, to a document that was shown to you earlier, WPS000001441, please? Could you please tell us whose flashes are on that first page?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That would be the Ontario Provincial Police, the Windsor Police, the London Police, and the flash of the RCMP.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
In addition to those police services, who else assisted Windsor Police Service in its operations at the Ambassador Bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
We had assistance from the Hamilton Police Service and the Waterloo Police Service. Off the top of my head, that may be it.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Thank you. Could I ask, Mr. Clerk, that you call up the witness statement of Catherine Diodati. It's 00000062. For context, Ms. Diodati is a protester who was present in Windsor. I understand the Commission does not intend to call her but intends to submit her witness statement in evidence. Could you go, please, to the third page, about halfway down. A little more. That's perfect. That's perfect. It says: "At 7:00 p.m., the injunction came into effect. Ms. Diodati said that by 7:30 p.m., a young police officer was handing out sheets of paper which explained the terms of the injunction and the potential consequences for failing to comply with it, including fines and confiscation of property." (As read) Can you assist the Commission, Deputy Chief, by advising us as to the best of your knowledge what other efforts were made to inform the public of the terms of the injunction, and generally, the legal consequences of the protest?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Certainly. So we utilised mainstream media, we utilised social media. We printed the documents, put them on telephone poles, jersey barriers, anywhere we could. We handed flyers out to the protesters. We made every effort we could with every source of media that we could to educate people on the existence of it. And the consequences would be, of course, charge of -- a criminal charge of disobeying a Court Order.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Thank you. The statement continues: "Ms. Diodati said she asked the officer 'What does this mean in terms of legality of protests? Will someone arrest us?' She observed that the officer was shaking, which surprised her. She said that she thought that the officer must have heard that the protesters were violent, so she told the officer 'You're safe. It's okay. None of us have ever been violent.'" (As read) Was there violence during the context of -- or during this blockade at the Ambassador Bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
The next paragraph, it says: "On Saturday, February 12th, Ms. Diodati went to Huron Church Road near College Road. Ms. Diodati said the area was barricaded by the police and the intersection looked like a war zone, which did not fit with the joyful atmosphere. Ms. Diodati recalled that she also spoke to a police officer from the East Coast. She said, 'Look at these heavy armoured vehicles and firearms, what are you planning to do with us?" On the 12th, were there armoured vehicles in the neighbourhood of the Ambassador Bridge?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
What was their purpose?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Well, they potentially have numerous purposes. They can be used to block intersections to assist us in that capacity. In this state, on the 12th, they were there to -- you know, you can imagine the unpredictability of an even of this kind at this point, so in Critical Incident Command, there's a saying that rather be looking at it than asking for it. So typically, those are held for a higher ground. An officer can be at the top of -- it's a very high vehicle -- can see the crowd from a better perspective, and also it is essentially sat back in case we need it for crowd control or anything worse.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Other than these policing purposes you described, is there any -- was there any other purpose for these ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
--- vehicles?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
No, not at all.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
You told my friend, Mr. Migicovsky for the Ottawa Police, that the chief and the deputy chief did not get involved in your Critical Incident Command. Was there any political involvement in any of your decisions with respect to the Ambassador Bridge blockade?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Zero.
Thomas McRae, Counsel (Win-WPS)
Thank you. Those are my questions.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Any re-examination?
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
None, Commissioner.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
I haven't got much. I just -- one thing I'm confused about, and that arises from the videos that the -- were shown by Citizens for Freedom, and you saw the arrest of the person who was on the ground. How does that fit in? I thought you testified that there were -- they could continue to protest on the sidewalk, and this person doesn’t seem to have been on the street, and I'm trying to understand exactly -- maybe I don’t know the geography.
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes. Sorry, sir. So they're -- let me explain. When I said that about the protestors on the sidewalk, that was outside of the area of control that we had tried to establish. So once -- after the 13th, we established basically from the bridge to Tecumseh Road and a little bit to the east. So there's a Canadian Tire, for instance, right, on that northwest -- northeast corner. If they're on that sidewalk outside of our jersey barriers, we had no problem with that. If they're inside the area of control that we were trying to establish, they were asked to leave, and if they weren’t, they were arrested. So that arrest in that video that we were shown, that is in that area of control on Huron Church north of Tecumseh Road between the Tecumseh Road and the bridge. That is the area that public order was clearing of vehicles and of pedestrians, essentially. So again, once that area of control was determined and established, anyone outside of it could stay on the sidewalk, no problem. That video was not in that area that I'm talking about on the sidewalk.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Can you just remind me then again -- and I'm lost in that from my mind -- the area of control, that you call it, is -- was from the bridge to Tecumseh Road; is that ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That was the area that POU cleared, but south of Tecumseh Road was part of the traffic plan with the jersey barriers. But that was another area of protestors, if they were on a sidewalk in that area -- which they weren’t -- but if they were, no problem. They were out of that area of control south of Tecumseh Road. So that’s -- yes, from Tecumseh to the bridge was the area that we were trying to maintain no protestors.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
And how far is it from Tecumseh to the expressway?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Two kilometres or so.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
So the -- and so the bridge to Tecumseh would be about a kilometre?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I'd say two or three, maybe -- yeah, two.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
So about half of the Huron Church Road would be, if you like, not available on the sidewalks for protestors, but the other half would be?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct, based on their areas of protest for that week, because they had areas at Tecumseh Road, at that south side of the bridge, and the north side of the bridge. That was the area we were trying to clear.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. And the -- you talked about being at the Emergency Preparedness Committee of the Chiefs of Police and discussion there?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Were there meetings of that group during this period in early February when the protests were going on?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, sir, there were.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
And ---
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I assume.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Oh, so you weren’t a party to those meetings?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I wasn’t personally because again, I was on midnights. Inspector DeGraaf would have tuned in to those, but when I flipped over to days about halfway through, I would be on those meetings when they were scheduled, yes.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay. And were there discussions at those meetings about the available resources for POU units across the province?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
That’s correct. There's a POU hub. That’s how we try and work it within the province of distributing necessary resources in these cases, yes. So there was those discussions at those meetings.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
And were those discussions, did they include what was needed for Ottawa and were there enough POU units to deal with the Ottawa situation in Ontario?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
Yes, in my opinion and being a part of that committee, it seemed like there was.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
And so were you part of those discussions?
Jason Crowley, Deputy Chief (Win-WPS)
I was on those meetings, but because Windsor didn’t have POU officers to offer because we don’t have a POU, you know, I was just a part of it. I wasn’t an active part of it because I had nothing to offer, at that point.
Paul Rouleau, Commissioner (POEC)
Okay, thank you. So I think that completes the evidence. Thank you for your attendance and your evidence. And we will adjourn til tomorrow morning at 9:30.
The Registrar (POEC)
The Commission is adjourned. La Commission est ajournée.
Upon adjourning at 6:00 p.m. NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA Ottawa, Ontario