Eric Brousseau
Eric Brousseau spoke 924 times across 11 days of testimony.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Commissioner Rouleau, Commission Counsel would like to call OPP Superintendent Pat Morris as the Commission’s next witness. (SHORT PAUSE)
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Supt. Morris.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’ll start with an easy one; what is your current rank?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And is that the rank that you held in January and February of 2022?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I’d like to call up your interview summary, which is WTS00000035. And this is a summary of the interview that Commission Counsel conducted with you in the summer; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you’re familiar with the contents of this summary?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You have no corrections to make to it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. And you mentioned that you are -- you oversee the OPP’s Provincial Operations Intelligence Bureau, which I will refer to as POIB. Can you tell us; how long have you overseen that Bureau?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And can you give us the 30- second elevator pitch of what POIB does?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Superintendent. You’re familiar with the term Project Hendon. Can you describe for us what Project Hendon is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. If I could ask for Document OPP00004571? And Superintendent Morris, I don’t know if you can see that on your screen. Is this a list of the Hendon Reports and who they were distributed to?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And those are all individuals or groups who received the Hendon Reports? Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. And you also mentioned teleconferences, and so I’d just like to bring up Document OPP00001782. I believe this may be a list that you put together as well. Is this a list of all of the Hendon teleconferences during this period?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And roughly how often were the teleconferences?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And who from the OPS participated in those teleconferences?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. I want to take you to one of the early Hendon Reports at OPP00001600. This is the Hendon Report from Thursday, January 13th. Is this the first Hendon Report in which the idea of a convoy approaching downtown Ottawa is mentioned?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so that information, I think it appears under the information Point Number 1: "Individuals within the Patriot Movement have undertaken to organize through closed communication channels and in-person networking toward[s] large scale protest actions. One of these actions includes a commercial truck work stoppage and highway slowdown scheduled for January 23... Information shared through social media networks indicates some of the participants of this action may be mobilizing from across the country to arrive in Ottawa for a mass anti- government protest calling for an end to all COVID-19 mandates."
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And is it fair to say that is the -- that's the extent of POIB's knowledge at the time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can go down to the bottom of the page. It's a little bit small, but: "Meanwhile, the shift from the government appears to have had little effect on the organizing underway by members of the Patriot Movement who have taken to social media advising 'truckers' plan to carry out their intended work stoppage..." And so as of January 13th, was POIB of the view that there was going to be a mass convoy to Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what were the sources of this early knowledge of the convoy?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I want to take you to the next appended report, which is OPP00001028, and that one is dated Thursday, January 20th. So at this point, Superintendent, the reports are being published just on a weekly basis; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if you see the information and the key information box there, Number 1: "The FREEDOM CONVOY 2022, and OPERATION BEARHUG, will almost certainly disrupt the movement of vehicular traffic and goods on Canadian highways and, possibly, at ports of entry along the border with the United States" And then Point 2: "Some participants in these convoys may attempt to disrupt the business of government at both the provincial and federal level by blocking access to government legislatures and Parliament." Does that accurately summarise the risk as POIB understood it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if I could take you now to page 3. There's a paragraph there, "Further", redacted: "...that there does not yet appear to be an exit strategy for departing Ottawa: the intent appears to be to remain in Ottawa until all COVID-19 mandates and restrictions are lifted." So what can you tell us about what POIB understood the timeline for this protest to be, as of the date of this report, which is January 20th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I think we'll see some reports later. If we could go to page 4, towards the bottom, I believe. There we go: "In addition to the convoys themselves, police of jurisdiction resources could be stretched if rallies are organized at the local level to coincide with the arrival of the convoys in a given community." So can you just sort of unpack that for us in terms of your concern about the police and jurisdiction?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I'd like to ask you about the next paragraph, which I believe Councillor Deans may have been taken to as well: "Although the stated intent of some convoy participants is to remain at Parliament Hill until the government rescinds all COVID-19 related restrictions and mandates, this goal is likely to prove unrealistic in the long term. However, even a small number of tractor trailers parked at Parliament Hill will almost certainly be disruptive in the short term." So why did POIB think that it was unrealistic in the long term and -- but extremely disruptive in the short term?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And when you say long-term, we're in January 20th, when you say long-term what did you mean by long-term at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I'd like to take you next to the Hendon Report from Saturday, January 22nd. It's OPP00001603. And if we could go to page 2 when we get there. Under the Assessment it says: "It is almost certain that the Freedom Convoy will disrupt the flow of traffic and goods along Canadian roadways and at border points." So how is it and why is it that POIB had concluded that that was almost certain by January 22nd?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Why did you feel that the entity is engaged in the planning; you mean the organizers, the Convoy organizers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Why did you feel that they were going to follow through?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could scroll down on the page, there’s a section called “Intelligence Gaps (Collection Requirements)”. Can you explain for us what appears in this section?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand. If we could go down, I want to go to the last two points in Intelligence Gaps, which are on the next page -- if we could scroll up, sorry. The last two points. One is “Plan for any further action should demands not be met” and “Plans for departing Ottawa.” So this is information that POIB does not have at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. I want to take you to the Hendon Report from Monday, January 24th now, which is OPP00001608 and I’ll take you to page two under “Assessment” when we get there. So the first paragraph: “Convoy organizers will almost certainly have minimal ability to influence the behaviour of convoy participants and protest attendees.” Why was that -- was that a concern, and if so, why was that a concern?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So did POIB take any additional steps when it realized that the convoy organizers weren’t necessarily going to have control over the participants?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00001047, please. This is an email exchange between yourself and Sebastien Tremblay. And I just want to go down to the bottom of the first page. Sebastien writes you: “Loved that you asked the RCMP to take some lead on their side to get information from west and east. I can’t believe that you had to ask though!” So can you tell me a bit about the process of getting information from the RCMP, and specifically what that comment there was referring to?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. If we could pull up the Hendon Report for Tuesday, January 25th, which is OPP00001609. And so here we’re -- just to situate us for Tuesday before the -- sort of the arrival of the convoys in Ottawa. On page one under “Information”, those first three bullet points, and I won’t read them all, but it’s suggested there’s 1200 trucks coming -- the Regina Police said there were 1200 trucks coming; there’s another unconfirmed information about 162 trucks and 1000 private vehicles and the Sûreté du Québec says 1000 to 1500 trucks. Is it fair to say that as of January 25th it was anticipated that the convoy would involve thousands of trucks and vehicles?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I’d like to go down to page 2 of this report, and to the second last bullet. Can I just ask you about fundraising? It indicates that at this point, on the 25th, the GoFundMe is at 4.4 million, which is an increase of almost a million dollars in the last 24 hours. Was this something that POIB was keeping an eye on and concerned about?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if you can just help me understand, was it concern about what the money would be used for? Or is it that the money coming in is a reflection that this is truly -- there’s some widespread support for it and that’s concerning? Or is it both?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could go down? I just want to ask you about the last paragraph under “Assessment”: “The lack of information relayed to the OPP about events in Ottawa during the period from [January 28th to the 29th] and on [January 30th] represents a serious intelligence gap. Information provided to the OPP to date indicates a high degree of planning for the protest, and communications appear to have been open between the OPP and convoy organizers. It is unknown why the details for these time frames would not be shared with police: attempts should be made to obtain this information.” Why weren’t you able to get that information out of the convoy organizers if there was a kind of good rapport with the PLT or undercover officers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so we’re now -- it’s Tuesday, January 25th. By this date, what was POIB’s expectation about how long this would last?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’m going to put my long- term question to you again, because I don’t know that I got an answer, but when you say long-term, you mean it’s not just the weekend? It’s a week? It’s two weeks? Possibly three weeks? What do you mean by long term?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And why isn’t it that it was ever spelled out in that degree of specify in the Hendon Reports to say these people might stay for two weeks, or three weeks, or four weeks?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand. If we could pull up OPP00001612? This is, I believe, a situational awareness bulletin for the freedom convoy. So who would have received this, Superintendent?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And it would have been up to those other agencies to disseminate it to their officers if they chose to?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we look at the second paragraph under background, I won’t read that whole thing, but this is generally POIB’s understanding, as of January 26th, that: “There is no expressed departure date for when participants will disperse or the action will end.”
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did -- on the Hendon teleconferences, did you or anyone from POIB specifically say -- you know, take the next step and say, “So you should be preparing for a two-week protest, a three-week protest, a four- week protest”?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah. If we could pull up OPP00001611, which is the Hendon Report for the next day, Thursday, January 27th, and on the front of this Hendon Report, there's a list of convoys, and a number of them -- I mean, one - - the first one has 471, but many of them have TBD. Why is that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
January 27th.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did POIB extrapolate or have any kind of estimate of the numbers as of that date, or this is the best estimate there is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could go down to page ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I see. If we could go down to -- yes, sorry, to the bottom of page 4, the first paragraph there: "It is highly unlikely that heavy machinery would be transported in the convoy if there was no intent to use it or if some individuals in the convoy did not anticipate that it would be needed." What can you tell us about the risk of heavy machinery and what steps POIB took to gather that information?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
What kind of heavy equipment did you see?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could go to the next Hendon Report, it's OPP00000815? And this is the report for Friday, January 28th, and it's got an updated list of convoy numbers at the front. And so by the next day, essentially, you've got some more information about convoys coming, descending upon Ottawa, and can you just explain for us what CMV and PMV are?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the number has jumped from 500 and something the day before. Now, there's over 1,300 vehicles that are sort of confirmed. Was that concerning to POIB?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you know where the trucks were planning to go or where OPS was planning to put the trucks at this point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could go down to page 7? Before we get there, just were you concerned about what was being done with this information, sort of in the week leading up and the Hendon Reports we've just looked at, were you concerned? You just told us you weren’t involved in the planning, but were you concerned that planning wasn’t being based on the reports at all?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so just for clarity, did you observe anything that caused you to believe that the intelligence wasn’t being actioned on the OPS planning side?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could go down to the bottom of page 7, there's -- under "Assessment", the first paragraph. "The available information indicates that the protestors plan to remain in Ottawa at least until February 4th. We continue to identify indicators to support at least some protestors remaining beyond the weekend of the 29th and 30th. These indicators include collecting donations of cash, food, and water from supporters." When was the February 4th date chosen, and how was that date arrived at?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to take you to the Saturday, January 29th, HENDON Report, which OPP00001614. And so this is the first day, essentially, of the planned protest. I believe some of the convoys arrived the day before but this is the first day. And if we could go down to page 3, under the “Assessment”, there’s a bolded sentence: "The protest in Ottawa has the potential to pose a real public safety and officer safety threat." And so can you unpack that for us and tell us why you had -- why POIB had made that conclusion on day one of the protest?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so, I guess, what can you tell us about -- was that just a worry or were you actually seeing sort of threatening or aggressive behaviour right out at the outset?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could go to the next day’s HENDON Report -- or sorry, Tuesday, February 1st, not the next day, OPP00001617, and if we could go down to page 4, at the bottom: "We are unable to confirm a potential second convoy that may travel to Ottawa from Western Canada. We continue to monitor this issue closely. We also continue to monitor the blockade at the Canada-US Border in Alberta. The strategy for managing or resolving this blockade is highly likely to have repercussions in Ontario." Can you tell you us why POIB saw them as related and why managing one would have repercussions in the other?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so let me ask you ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- did -- having been in charge of intelligence for HENDON throughout this, did you observe that at any point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you observe a sort of reaction in one part of the country to some sort of enforcement action in a different part of the country?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to go to the HENDON Report, OPP00001619; this is from Thursday, February 3rd. And when we’re there, if we can go to page 5, under the “Combined Assessment” heading: "The ongoing truck blockades in Ottawa in Coutts, Alberta, have the potential to develop into a national civil disobedience movement that could extend to Maritime transportation and potentially other major transportation sections. It is highly likely that new convoys blockades and protests in support of the Ottawa blockade will occur in Ontario for the foreseeable future and will strain law enforcement resources." And so can you tell us why you thought -- or why the term “national civil disobedience movement” was chosen here?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And let me ask you about the sort of foreseeable future prediction because a few days earlier there was the February 4th date in the Hendon Report, and now we're at February 3rd, the day before, and the report is saying these will continue for the foreseeable future. Why is that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I won't pull it up, but the Friday, February 4th, Hendon Report has a section about the protesters gathering intelligence, their own intelligence and sort of publishing it online. What can you tell us about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I'd like ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I'd like to take you to the Hendon Report for Sunday, February 6th, which is OPP00001622. And if we can go down to the assessment section, paragraphs 4 and 5, so just down a little bit more. I won't read them out, but it talks about support from public officials or other influential figures having an effect on the protests. I'm wondering if you can speak to that in terms of what you saw from an intelligence perspective.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to take us to the next day's Hendon Report, OPP00001623, and under assessment on page 5.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
This is ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- Monday, February 7th. So we're past the sort of second weekend of the protest in Ottawa. And so the assessment, the first paragraph: "The situation in Ottawa remains volatile and represents a public safety threat; an officer safety threat; and, potentially, a national security threat. The available information suggests that the blockade has ample moral, logistical and financial support to remain in place long-term." Why did it use the phrase "national security threat"?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so you beat me to it, but I'll take you to an email where you reference that. It's OPP00001038. This is an email from yourself to Jim Walker and Brian Barclay, and just after midnight on February 8th, so just after you've published this Hendon Report on the 7th. If we could scroll down, at the bottom, to Point Number 5: "In terms of national security, the wording in HENDON assessment concerned me slightly. I agree with the potential for officer safety and public safety but INSET and CSIS concur...there are no national security concerns. Confirmed today. If we have access to something they don't, we can meet them to discuss, but I am not aware of it." And so what is it -- again, from your discussions with them, what were their concerns about your use of the word "national security threat"?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to take you to the next day's Hendon Report, February 8th, which is OPP00001624. And we'll go to page 4 when we get there, under the assessment section. So: "The situation in Ottawa remains volatile and represents a public safety threat and an officer safety threat." And then the last sentence in that paragraph: "As such, the ongoing series of protests and blockades represents a potential threat to Canada's sovereignty and national security." Is that -- can you sort of compare us -- compare for us the language from this February 7th report to the one here on February 8th.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you feel that that assessment was accurate at the time, that it was a potential threat to the sovereignty and national security?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we could pull OPP00001837. These are meeting minutes, I think they're dated February 11th. I believe the meeting may have occurred a couple of days earlier. This is an early Integrated Planning Cell meeting. Your name is in the attendees. Do you remember attending this meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could go down?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go down to page 4, there’s a -- something that’s attributed to you. It’s: “PLT framework has been excellent in the past - we have a significant portion of this event - if proper messaging and options in the form of negotiation could occur, this could dissipate.” Chief Superintendent Pardy agreed. “Meeting with Chief SLOLY at noon today and will be stressing the need for a plan and an overview - we need to come to terms with what the intelligence really is, vs. what is perceived.” I want to ask you about that last part, if you remember?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could go to OPP00001158? This is an email that you sent on the same day, or sorry, it’s on February 10th, the next day. And you sent it to Mark Patterson. Who is Mark Patterson?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you’ve copied Chuck Cox and Brian Barclay of your -- of the OPP, and Ken Bryden. Who is he?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I don’t need you to sort of read out the whole email, but perhaps if the Hearing Clerk could kind of scroll through and you can skim it? And I just want to ask you why you sent this email at this point in time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you understand why someone on your team was being asked to put all this information together?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And Chief Sloly asked you directly for some information at some point? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I can pull up a document if you’d like.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Why don’t we do that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If you can pull up OPS00010411? This, I believe, is an email -- it’s a forward of your email that you ultimately sent answering the questions. So if we can just scroll down to the bottom of your email? I think the next page. There it is. Are these the five questions that Chief Sloly asked you to answer?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we could just scroll down? If we stop there: “…he clarified that he wished the answers to be provided by ‘confirmed intelligence’ not aspirational information.” What did you understand that to mean?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And had you had this request previously in the last two weeks before this? Or was this the first time you had faced this request?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And was it unusual for the Chief of Police of a sort of different police force to ask you for this kind of information?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand the next day, so that puts us at Saturday, February 12th, you gave a presentation to the OACP; do you remember that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And you attended one on the 12th, and I believe Chief Sloly was there; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you tell us about what happened at that meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what was your view of Chief Sloly’s assessment of the Hendon reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to ask you about one last document and then I’ll be done, which is the Hendon report from Monday, February 14th, the day the Emergencies Act was invoked. It’s OPP00001630. If we can go to page six, there’s a bolded paragraph: “The situation in Ontario remains volatile. Protestors and their supports are unlikely to be significantly deterred by any invocation of the Emergencies Act. The potential for conflict or an act of violence is likely increasing as the Ottawa blockade continues.” Why did POIB conclude that the Act was unlikely to deter the protestors and actually that the violence was likely to increase?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Superintendent Morris, those are my questions.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
None, Commissioner.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Commissioner, for the record, Eric Brousseau, Commission counsel. And the Commission would like to call its next witness, OPP Superintendent Craig Abrams.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Superintendent Abrams.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If I could have document WTS00000013, please. Superintendent Abrams, I’m showing you a copy of your interview summary from when you attended an interview this summer. I take it you’ve seen this document?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you reviewed it when you were signed off on its accuracy?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And it remains accurate, to the best of your knowledge?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. And you have no corrections or additions to make to it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. Superintendent, I take it you have more than 20 years of experience with the OPP. Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Twenty-seven (27). Okay. Could you just very briefly in a couple of minutes walk us through your background?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And your current role is Superintendent of Operations for the East Region. Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And in that current role -- you were in that role at the time of January and February 2022?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what does that role entail specifically?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And who did you report to at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I want to ask you about Critical Incident Command. I take it you’re not formally trained as a Critical Incident Commander. Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You’ve sat in on it, I believe?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And before the freedom convoy events, what was your experience in policing wide-scale protests?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I was going to ask you about sort of what that means to be strategic commander for an event. If you can describe that for us.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
All right. And you had a significant amount of sort of decision-making authority over this event, I take it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you used the term “traffic event” there. Can you describe that for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we’ll get into that. But just to go back to one thing you said, you talked about assisting smaller communities sort of along the way. Are these communities that are policed by the OPP or would they have their own municipal forces?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I also understood that you set up or, to use the police term, sort of stood up the Emergency Operations Centre. Can you describe that for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you mentioned that you were coordinating with various police agencies, but I want to ask you about the OPS now. When did you start coordinating with the OPS to plan for this event?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I do want to ask you about Intersect. I also just -- I was reminded that I wanted to ask you just to slow down. We have interpreters and then translators. So I will make an effort to speak slowly and they appreciate that as well.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so you've mentioned Intersect. So if you could describe that for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And going back to the 24th, the start of the coordination, what did that look like in terms of coordinating with OPS? What were you doing?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now you say the OPP response was planning for a single day event. Why is that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so maybe I just - - I want to make sure I understood you correctly, when you say a one-day event, you're talking about one day where a lot of vehicles will be converging on Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And I believe you were familiar with Hendon reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And were you reviewing them as they were coming out?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand Casselman and Arnprior are sort of areas under OPP jurisdiction where you would have a particular attention, but did you have an understanding or a view of what was going to transpire in Ottawa based on those reports in the week leading up to the convoy?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you discuss the Hendon reports with anyone at OPS in your sort of role of coordinator?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now I want to ask you about an Intersect call, I think it was the morning of January 27th. Do you remember that call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And could you describe it for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what were the plans that were shared on that call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And prior to this call, were you aware that they -- the OPS was planning to allow the trucks into downtown Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you have any concerns about that proposal?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand that, and the whole sort of “Stay in your lane” mentality, but did you have any concerns? Even if you didn’t voice them, did you have any concerns about that number of maybe heavy commercial vehicles in downtown Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No, sorry. Did anybody else on that call, any of the other participating agencies raise any concerns or question that plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And there was also a discussion of a plan to have vehicles kind of park further away and protesters sort of bused in; do you remember that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And based on your participation in this call, what did it appear -- how long of an event did it appear that the OPS was planning for?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And was that consistent with what you understood at the time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you also believe it would be a weekend-long event?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Well, you’ve anticipated my question because Supt. Morris was very clear yesterday that the Hendon reports in the week leading up used the word, “Long term” and sort of made it clear that protesters would be staying. So I guess I’m wondering if you were reading them, why you weren’t left with that impression as well.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. Was there discussion of that contingency plan or of a plan B on this Intersect call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Who, if anyone, at the OPP did you sort of report back to after this Intersect call about the plan to let the vehicles into downtown?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And ultimately there was a sort of a plan that dated January 28th or 29th, I believe, that was put together by the Ottawa Police Service. Did you ever see a copy of that plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you ever ask for a copy?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No. Would you normally see a copy of a plan for an event like that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We’ve heard evidence, and I expect we’ll continue to hear evidence that this was a fairly unprecedented event. Would you agree with that assessment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
All right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00000773, please? I’m just showing you another document. This is the Will Say that I believe you prepared in connection with -- attending the interview this summer; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So that’s helpful to know. So this was created in, we’re talking late February, maybe early March?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so I won’t take you to it, but I just wanted to understand the circumstances under which it was created. And so it references a conversation with an Insp. Ferguson on January 29th. Who is Insp. Ferguson?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And she did report back to you on the 29th; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was that report?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what -- specifically what type of assistance was the OPP offering at this point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think your Will-Say includes this phrase: “This event was clearly beyond their capabilities.” Is that -- and “Their” being OPS. Was that a view that you had formed already on January 29th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did Inspector Ferguson relate to you or did you have a view of kind of what was going wrong, what was overwhelming, I guess, the OPS at that point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand that you spoke with Deputy Chief Bell on that day as well, correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you describe that conversation for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you offer any assistance on this day in particular?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We can pull it up. It's OPP00000774, and it's at page 12. It's the entry at 16 -- just about 1642, I think, advise D.C. Bell 18 at ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so you offered them some point in the afternoon, didn’t have a response, and then at 7 o'clock were told, "We don’t -- thanks, but no thanks"?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what type of officers were these 18 officers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so was 18 the most that you could sort of put together in that short order?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did the OPS ultimately take you up on that offer at some point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you -- did either you offer additional assistance or did he ask for those 10 back or additional officers at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And that was going to be Chief to Commissioner, Chief Sloly to Commissioner Carrique?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But if that’s the case, why pull back the officers that you had sent who were just, in your words, sort of sitting around doing nothing? I mean, they were there. They could have been activated.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
In this first weekend, sort of January 29th, January 30th, can you just share with us any other observations about what was happening on the ground, what was going well, what was not going well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And we'll get there. But first I'd like to pull up an email. It's OPP00001593. If we can go to the bottom email, the one from Joseph Varga. He's an inspector with the OPP, correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was his role at this point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think this email kind of touches on some of that regrouping. So Inspector Varga writes: "Supt. As you are aware, OPP POU direct supports to PPS will conclude this evening. At the request of OPS and the NCRCC Command Group, OPP POU has now been requested to support OPS with the ongoing POU deployment in the City of Ottawa." So what assistance had the OPP rendered to the PPS, being the Parliamentary Protective Service, during that first weekend?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you know why that agreement was reached?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could scroll down a little bit, Insp. Varga shares the plan for the next three days. " This concept of operations is anticipated to utilize OPP POU in connection with all other assisting agency POU units in the following timeline." And then it set out what was going to occur on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, including a possible injunction of the injection -- and then the injunction would be enforced. So at this point, on January 30th, which is the Sunday, is everyone planning to basically wrap this up by Wednesday of the coming week?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So the 30 were traffic officers under your command and then Insp. Varga had POU units that may have been in Ottawa as well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And this is a POU plan so weren’t involved in preparing that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we just scroll down a little bit, the next paragraph: "A review of the shift of OPP/POU support from PPS to OPS has resulted in a re-evaluation of required OPP/POU resources." And you see it talks about the: " …release of 14 bodies back to their home location. Further, eight POU members will be returning to their home locations." And so my question is, it’s January 30th, it certainly doesn’t look like the protest is ending on Monday morning but POU members are leaving the City of Ottawa; do you know why that is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You referred earlier to a discussion with Deputy Chief Bell on the 31st where he indicated they were now planning for a four-week extended occupation. How did you react to that timeline?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
All right. And based on that, did you escalate that within the OPP; did you change anything about your own planning when you heard that anticipated timeline.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I’d like to pull up OPP00000024, please. This is an email from -- I believe it’s Supt. Alakas; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what role was he playing in the response?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to go down and start with Supt. Alakas identifies three issues. He says: "Much of the uncertainty around response and especially around the utilization of our resources has resulted from three main difficulties." And so if you could just help us understand these, if you had observed these, and just take us through, sort of, one, two, and three.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so before we move on to 2, is that an issue -- or a function of the fact that there isn’t standardized Incident Command System across various police agencies?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so if you’d just point to: "OPS requests were framed in terms of specific amounts of resources rather in terms of the effect or impact they wished these resources to impart." Was that something that you had observed?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But in your view, you had a better, I guess, relationship with Deputy Chief Bell and were able to have that direct conversation in a way that's better than what Superintendent Alakas was able to accomplish?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then just briefly on the third point, an initial lack of internal communication and unified incident command which created barriers to effective information intelligence flow. Is that something that you had observed at that point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And was Deputy Chief Bell as receptive to those comments?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could get OPP00001342, please. I just want to show you, this is an email, I believe, from Pat Morris to you and others February 2nd. And if we can just go down, there's an organizational chart here and I just want to understand and make sure that this is -- this accurately represents the sort of command structure for the OPP for this event at the time.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you -- what's the difference between the NCRCC and then the OPP Ottawa Command Post?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so this email's from February 2nd, which is also the date of Chief Sloly or former Chief Sloly, you know, saying he doesn't believe that there's a policing solution, or there may not be a policing solution. I take it you're familiar with that, with him saying that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so as somebody who was on the ground and sort of witnessing what was going on very close, close hand from the OPP, did you share that assessment of the situation at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Why not?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so hearing that, did that prompt a renewed extension of support, or did you do anything with that to say -- to go back to your team and say we have to step up our assistance because, clearly, this is a situation that's getting out of hand?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And sort of generally speaking, when you relayed those concerns, what was the reception?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand that the OPP assigned two planners in the very early days, Inspector Younan and Staff Sergeant Gauvin (ph); is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you just describe what their role would have been?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And but these two OPP planners were working alongside OPS planners?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did that group ultimately come up with any sort of plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now, I understand there's a bit of confusion also about the role that Superintendent Mark Patterson was playing at this time as well.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did it appear to you, I guess, based on this incident that you just described or otherwise, that there was some confusion in the OPS about lines of authority and who was -- who needed to sign off on what, or who was in charge of PLT or the plan or whatever it is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you raise that within the OPP at all?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And when you talk about deconflicting issues, you're talking about sort of direct conversations with Deputy Chief Bell?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to go to February 4th now, and there was the press conference, I believe, at which it was announced that all off ramps from the 417 into Ottawa and the bridges into Ottawa were going to be shut down, closed, essentially. Do you remember that press conference?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
On the intelligence piece, were you aware of any new intelligence?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And were you aware that this was going to be announced or that this was a new proposal or plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And why was it concerning, or why was this an issue for you?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how did that conversation go?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Was closing off ramps or bridges something that the OPP had done as the convoy traversed Ontario?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And when you closed off ramps, at some point, was that done at the request of OPS or was that just done ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So just help me understand that though, because my understanding is that the OPP are the place of jurisdiction for 400-series highways, and so that’s why they were asking you to close ramps, because the OPS couldn't send cruisers to close an off ramp on a 400-series highway; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No, I just wanted to make sure it was clear for the Commissioner's benefit. And so it had been done before, closing of ramps at the request of the OPS. In this case, it just caught you by surprise?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. In your witness summary -- and I won't take you there –- but refers to a conversation with Deputy Chief Bell. What do you characterize as a formal conversation with Deputy Chief Bell on the 4th? What can you tell us about that conversation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes. Once again, that was triggered by my calls from my members on the ground still concerned with not seeing a plan, no unified structure, no inability to integrate, no inability to have autonomy, so I wanted to express it to Deputy Bell in a formal way to say, “Deputy, this is what we’re seeing and we need to try -- or you need to try to come up with a more unified structure to make this work a bit better, much better.” And Deputy Bell was very receptive to our conversations, understood the need, and stated that that’s what their goal was, and they were trying to do that. It was difficult. Deputy Bell, obviously, is a senior officer to me; I don’t want to be seen as trying to tell him what to do. I think he recognized it himself when we discussed it. But, once again, as the role of strategic commander, that was my job. I had to protect my people and when they were signalling to me they wanted help, it was my job to help them.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And during this conversation, did either did either Deputy Chief Bell ask for more resources or did you offer more resources?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so after the early days, the resource requests were not coming directly to you; is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OPP00000556, this is an email that, I think if we scroll down, I believe Insp. Younan forwarded you and Supt. Alakas an email. And if we go further down, this is an email which we saw in evidence this morning, from Former Chief Sloly to a number of members on his team at 6:30 in the morning of February 5th. Do you recall getting this forwarded email from Insp. Younan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we could just scroll down to the “General Priorities” list there. No. 1 is “surge, contain, and enforce” which I think gets referred to as “surge and contain”. What -- did you have a view on, sort of, whether that was an appropriate strategy at the time or whether there were -- like, there was a plan in place to effect that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so that’s something we’ve heard, and we will hear from a number of witnesses, I think, is the idea that -- as my colleague put it this morning, does the plan drive the numbers or the numbers drive the plan? And so I think you’re saying, you know, the OPP isn’t going to make more resources without a plan that it can review; is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is that standard practice? Is that always the case that you wouldn’t be offering up OPP resources unless you knew exactly how the local police jurisdiction plans to use them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But what about the view that, you know, if you send them to Ottawa, at least they’re there to be used when there is a plan. If there’s a delay, if it’s going to take you two, or three, or four days to get 500 OPP officers to Ottawa, then when you have a plan, you still have to wait two, or three, or four days?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And at this point, this is February 5th; are -- Is Insp. Younan and S/Sgt. Gauvin, are they still embedded with the OPS Planning Group as of February 5th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you speak with the Commissioner on February 5th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I believe that’s -- I believe you spoke with him perhaps twice that day, actually. But what concerns were you elevating to the Commissioner?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you understand that the Commissioner did have those discussions with Chief Sloly?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just generally, sort of, how often were in contact and relaying your observations and concerns to Commissioner Carrique?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to ask you about the Coventry Road enforcement. So if you could just tell us what -- what happened there, as far as you understand it.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think you transcribed your recollection of the call in an email, so if we could pull up OPP00001532? And if we can go down just to the top of your email, there we go. "The following is a summary of the OPS video call that Insp. Beaudin asked me to participate in on his behalf this evening." So Inspector Beaudin was not -- wasn't able to make it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The next paragraph, "I can say that OPS Chief Sloly said numerous times that PLT needs to be embedded and engaged in operations and that it was mission critical that they be. I sensed however that they just do not understand how best to utilize PLT." Where did you get that sense from and where was the disconnect in the organization?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The next paragraph mentions a Dr. Peter Collins who was on the line. What -- who is Dr. Collins and what role was he playing?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The next paragraph, "OPS Command feels that there is a silver lining as the arrests were made away from the fuel depot so there is not as strong a connection between PLT and the arrests." Did you share that silver lining assessment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we go down to the next paragraph, "They then had a long conversation about staffing and again Chief Sloly stated that PLT needed to be embedded in all they do. Chief Sloly expects all policing partners will engage in arrests for Aiding and Abetting the offence of Mischief and if they refuse then he will call that police services senior management to ensure they do." Can you describe for us what that captures there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Oh, is this just in relation to Coventry Road and the gas issue or is this a larger issue?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But at this point on February 6th, there's no large operational plan that's ready to be actioned; is there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so when you've written down all policing partners, that includes the RCMP, the OPP, any other municipal agencies that were there participating?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we go -- there, the next paragraph. "I was not asked to speak on the call. At the end I was asked to confirm the rumour that OPP PLT was leaving. I explained that it was in fact the OPS PLT members who suggested our PLT folks leave [as] the Coventry Road fuel arrests had made their jobs untenable and there seemed to be no use trying any longer using PLT tactics since the trust was [...] broken." So just to be clear, did OPP PLT leave or reduce their -- the numbers in light of this?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then you go on to describe two major operational plans upcoming, and I wonder if you could just take us through one and two and what was being planned at that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you have a view on either of these two operational plans?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And, sorry, when you say PLT, like, the PLT would actually engage in the arrests?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And then I believe you spoke with Superintendent Patterson after the call, if you can just describe for us that second call with Superintendent Patterson.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But as of the evening of February 6th, that level of planning didn’t exist for the OPP’s POU; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The work that you did over the next two days ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- to ascertain that, you know, this was something you could do and you had planned for what to do with the gas. That work hadn’t been carried out, but at the time that you’re having this conversation with ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- Supt. Patterson?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00001546, please? So this is an email you sent, I believe, the following day, after the call. If we could scroll down? You sent it to Deputy Harkins and C/Supt. Thomas.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
“Deputy, I did not want to mention this on the call with the group but feel it important for you to have this information. On my call with OPS Command last night Chief Sloly asked his people to send him their resource needs. They told him that they need 250 members a day to run things. Chief Sloly told them that if they need 100 he will ask for 200, if they need 200 he will ask for 400. He seemed very comfortable asking for twice what he really needed. He looks at it that it the other partner police agencies can’t meet the ask number then Ottawa may still get more than they really need.. [It] was a very strange call to be a part of.” (As read) Could you sort of tell us how that came about on the call and why you were relaying that information to Deputy Harkins and C/Supt. Thomas?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you say anything on the call with Chief Sloly and the other members of the OPS at the time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Again, going back to the issue of numbers driving the plan or the plan driving numbers, that, to your knowledge, like had you said it, or to your knowledge, had anybody else said it directly to anybody at OPS? Like, we don’t need a number, we don’t need a number that’s doubled, we need a plan and you’ll get resources when we have a plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I think the 7th is the same day that Chief Sloly publicly requested 1,800 officers.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I believe it’s the 7th, but ---
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- in any event, did you -- how did you view that number in light of this conversation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so around this time, the 8th and the 9th, former Chief Supt. Pardy became involved in the events. Can you describe how he became involved and what his role was?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you remain part of that team?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You just mentioned that, at this point, you're at about 150 officers a day, up from 30 a day maybe a week ago.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But so these numbers had increased in the absence of any sort of concrete operational plan; is that fair to say?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand you attended a couple of early Integrated Planning Team meetings as I guess this transition was happening. What can you tell us about those meetings?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what did you sense the reception of the integrated team was like on the OPS side?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did that happen?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you describe that meeting for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And was there discussion about Rideau and Sussex at this meeting as well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how was it left at the end of the meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you speak privately with any OPS members after that meeting about this -- the Rideau-and- Sussex Plan in particular?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then, just very briefly, what was your role after this. I understand this was the last of your sort of involvement in the Integrated Planning Team; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, you talked just a minute ago about events around the country and so I want to ask you a little bit about Windsor. You had a few discussions with Supt. Dana Earley there; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, you don’t recall having conversations with her?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Well, I’m -- Supt. Earley has recorded that in her notes so perhaps we’ll pull those up and see if that helps you. If I could get OPP00004543, and it’s February 10th and I don’t have the page number. I apologize -- page 33, sorry.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Oh, it may be -- OPP00004543. It’s February 10th. I’m looking at 10:21 on February 10th. So there were are. I think it’s probably on the next page, two pages. She takes quite detailed notes.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, there we are: "Call from Craig Abrams to confirm resources." And so I guess we’re now 10:21 on February 10th. I don’t know if that helps situate you -- helps you recall whether you had a call with her.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so she records the calls: "Call from Craig Abrams to confirm resources. Ottawa has been sending resource sheets to EOC. Advised Abrams Windsor is priority according to Deputy." Do you recall Supt. Earley telling you that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we go further down at 10:28, I think you’re sort of giving her some advice: "Abrams advised…" Or sorry, 10:28: "Advised Abrams - Windsor has told us this is now ours." So you remember hearing that from Supt. Earley at all?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And then the second entry of 10:28: "Abrams advised that’s easier. Ottawa doesn’t like PLT nightmare. This will allow you to make your own plan. Ottawa is just truck on side streets, not affecting livelihoods." Is that -- is she recording what you’ve -- you’re saying to her at that point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, and I want to ask you about the “Ottawa is just trucks on side streets, not affecting livelihoods.” Is that a view that you held or that you had heard sort of espoused within the OPP.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right, okay. And again, just kind of backing up one more step, you’re not aware of the OPP having prioritized sending resources to Windsor over Ottawa for, I guess, economic reasons?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I just want to ask you a last series of questions about the Emergencies Act and its invocation. And I understand you -- you know, you learned on February 17th about the creation of the red zone in Ottawa, right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is it your understanding that that was only made possible by the invocation of the Emergencies Act?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you have experience and had you advised officers that there were existing authorities or you had done it previously without the Emergencies Act?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the government revoked the Emergencies Act on February 23rd, and you were asked by your members, "What can we continue to do?" What did you tell them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We're almost out of time. I have two final questions for you. The first is, as somebody who had an early vantage of the Freedom Convoy and the preparations, you know, can you give us a very short list of sort of what went well and what could have been improved upon in preparing for the arrival of the convoy?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
From your perspective as somebody who observed them coming into the city.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I guess the reverse side of that question is, what would you say to the suggestion that this could have been avoided if the OPP had more actively inserted itself or actively offered support, maybe no strings attached, maybe "Here's people. Show us the plan later", that that might have avoided the situation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Superintendent. Those are my questions.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Just one series of questions, very briefly. Superintendent Abrams, you gave evidence about the February 9th meeting, and you were asked in cross- examination about Darwin Tetreault and the commitment for -- the commitment sought for 400 RCMP officers, recall that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you tell us, was there a similar commitment sought or offered on behalf of the OPP at that meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We do, Mr. Commissioner. Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel, and I'd like to call the Commission's next witness, OPP Inspector Marcel Beaudin.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Inspector. Just to clarify, you pronounce your last name Bodin (ph) not Beaudin?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Bodin (ph). Okay. Good to know. Can you tell us your current rank with the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And was that the same rank that you held in January and February of this year?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What was your rank in January and February?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'm showing you - - or I'd like to pull up your witness statement, WTS00000037. And you recall sitting for an interview with myself and my colleagues this summer?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you reviewed this interview summary -- a draft of this interview summary when it was prepared?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And the contents of that summary are accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
DO you have any corrections or changes or additions to make to it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Can you just briefly describe for us your background and your role at the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Correct.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We will be speaking about PLT. I'd like to show you a document, if we could pull up OPP00004566? This is the OPP's Framework for Police Preparedness for Indigenous Critical Incidents. Can you tell us what this document is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so when and why was this policy created and adopted?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think you mentioned that this is one of 19 critical policies. Can you tell us, what is a critical policy and why is this 1 of 19 of them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think there's 19 of them out of how many policies across the OPP roughly?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But is it -- are critical policies a sort of subset of ---
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- sort of important policies? Does that mean that every OPP officer is sort of aware of them, is required to sort of read ---
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- them and know them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we go down to pages 5, starting at page 5, the policy is divided into 3 stages, or it refers to sort of 3 stages: pre-critical incident stage, critical incident, and then post-critical incident. So I'm wondering if you can for a few minutes just explain what each of those stages are?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. I was going ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- to say that falls into pre-critical?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so and then the third stage or the post-critical incident stage, what does ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- that involve?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If I could pull up COMM0000666? What I'm pulling up on screen is the Canadian Associations of Chiefs of Police's National Framework for Police Preparedness for Demonstrations and Assemblies. And so to start, if you could just tell us how this document relates to the OPP's framework that we were just talking about?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so can you just clarify for us, is this document intended to apply only to demonstrations and assemblies that touch on Indigenous issues, or is it for any sort of mass demonstration ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could go down to pages 5 to 6, there's -- there are 7 foundational principles here, and I wonder if, again, in sort of 30 seconds per each, you can just walk us through, and particularly, starting with the measured approach. What is that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We’ll get into what -- the sort of specific examples.
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I just want to finish this sort of separately.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can I just stop you there just to say, you know, some people might be surprised to learn that the police are involved in actually facilitating protests. Why -- so why is sort of facilitating a protest an important part of this?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then -- so yeah, the next point, number 4, Impartiality.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And the stage of conflict, we spoke a little bit about that.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then the last point, Education Before Enforcement.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And I just want to ask you one further question about the measured approach. You sort of described it as being on a continuum. And how quickly or how much time do you need to kind of work your way from one end of the continuum to the other in the context of a protest?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And page 11 has a section on the Role of Liaison Teams. And that’s what we’re talking about when we’re talking about PLT, which is Provincial Liaison Team with the OPP, Public Liaison Team with the OPS, and then the RCMP have their own. DLT for some divisions. But briefly, if you can just describe for us sort of what role liaison teams across police services play in implementing this national framework?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
One term we've heard in evidence, and I'm hoping you can explain it a little bit, is the concept of PLT logs. What are those, and why are they important?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so they get shared, not outside of just the PLT group, within the OPP or the OPS?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you briefly describe for us the relationship between the PLT team and Public Order Units, or POUs? How do PLT work with POU?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the last sort of conceptual piece I want to talk about before we get into what happened in Ottawa is the concept, and Inspector Lucas testified a little bit about it this morning, is the concept of PLT autonomy and sort of the role that being able to negotiate and make enforceable kind of agreements with protesters plays in the PLT's work.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. But -- and so in a typical situation would you sort of have to go up the chain of command to get sign-off on ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- decisions? Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so now I want to move into sort of talking about PLT's role in the Freedom Convoy events. And leaving sort of what happened in Ottawa aside, can you describe for us the role that the OPP's PLT teams played as the convoys kind of traversed the Province of Ontario?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You mentioned the OPS PLT. What -- can you tell us about their sort of team as of the end of January 2022?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, I understand you arrived in Ottawa, I think it was February 2nd, so sort of after the first weekend of demonstrations and protests. What was the sort of state of PLT work as of when you first arrived in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I want to ask you about a couple of specific incidents, and so the first one is the PLT's role in clearing the encampment at Confederation Park.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. Without the need for any POU enforcement?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now we've also heard about the sort of Coventry Road fuel depot.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We've heard a lot of evidence on it, so, you know, we don't need to go through sort of -- through it in detail, but from a PLT perspective, what can you tell us about what transpired and why that might have been an issue?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so did you observe or were you told about any negative effects on the PLT's work as a result of that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Inspector Lucas testified this morning about sort of changing crowd dynamics throughout the sort of three-week period. Did that -- was that something that the PLT Team observed in terms of who was there, how many people, what it was like on the ground, and did that affect the PLT's work at all?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You mentioned earlier part of the concept of PLT is you will test leadership and find the leaders and get them to assist you in disseminating messages. One thing we’ve heard is that there were -- you know, that was maybe a challenge here. There were multiple groups, no clear leaders who had control over the entire protest, obviously. You know, is that something that PLT observed and how did you deal with that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And can you just clarify, when you’re talking about this conversation, were you in the room and a number of OPS -- or sorry, PLT members were telling you what they thought they could get done? Like what day it this?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. Commissioner, I’m about to move to a new area and I see it’s three minutes to 1:00. I wonder if now is an appropriate time for the break.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Whenever you are ready, sir.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Commissioner. For the record, Eric Brousseau, Commission counsel.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So Inspector Beaudin, I'm going to ask you now about your involvement in the Freedom Convoy, and I'm going to take you to some documents. But before I do that, I just want to asak you one quick question. At one point you raised or someone on your team kind of raised a concern about the role that someone named Dr. Peter Collins was playing in Ottawa. Can you just tell us who Peter Collins or Dr. Peter Collins is and what his role was and what the concern was?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. If we could pull up OPP00000080, please. I think this is an email that you may have told us about this morning, earlier this afternoon, kind of a hand- off email as you were leaving Ottawa, or the plan is that you would leave Ottawa, and you were handing the reins over to Mike Acton. So if we can go down. I think you've written an email to Superintendent Patterson. If we can just scroll down. And so can you just clarify who Mike Acton is and what his role was with the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And so was Mike, then, the most senior OPP PLT person once you left Ottawa, like on the ground in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The second paragraph, I just -- this refers again to the PLT logs for evidence. And so I just wanted to clarify that to your knowledge, none of the OPP's PLT logs were used in evidence for any sort of injunction; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we go down to the next paragraph, the one that says "As discussed", the last sentence there, it says: "I believe the overall goal at this time is to minimize the current footprint on ground, while building trust and confidence with stakeholders, which the team has displayed they can do many times." And so the date on this email is February 6th. So by this date, which is nine, ten days in, had the PLT succeeded in minimizing the footprint of the protest?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And then the next paragraph: "A common theme on the wall in the PLT room is that the truckers want to be heard. Any efforts for communication with MP's, DM's or ADM's may allow the group to save face, get a win and go home. Many people are tired and probably looking for an exit strategy. Hopefully you can find some." So again, as of February 6th, what was the status of discussions about bringing in political leaders, MP's, DM's, ADM's, and making them part of a PLT-led conversation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But as of this point, February 6th, that hadn't happened yet?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But you were involved in that -- in a sort of conversation that went down that road, so I want to take you to some of those documents. But I guess before I do, just if you can explain very briefly kind of how you got word that there might be some government interest in participating in that, in a negotiation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could pull up OPP00000108, please, and go down to page 2. I think this is an email. I think you were -- your witness statement says you received that call from Deputy Chief -- Deputy Commissioner DiMarco on the 9th, and then you got this email the morning of the 10th, which will be up on the screen. If we go down to page 2, the first email. So this is... If we keep scrolling down, I believe there is more. This is an email from Rob Stewart. Who is Rob Stewart?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And -- so this is the sort of the reach out that Deputy Commissioner DiMarco had given you the heads up on the day before. And did you meet with or speak with your team after receiving this email?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just tell us about that conversation.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could scroll up to about the middle of page 1, looks like Leslie Jean sent you this list here. Who is Leslie Jean?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The last paragraph that's showing on the screen, there's a final bolded sentence, "In Ottawa specifically, police have identified several leaders who are willing to engage with police." Who were those leaders?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But it was your understanding based on information from your team that there were people who were prepared -- people on the protester side who were prepared to have this type of meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The next -- the first bulleted point under governmental considerations, that, "Police are unable to solve the underlying issues. There is very limited capacity for police to solve this situation, without some movement by government to allow demonstrators to have a "win" of sorts." Now I expect that former Chief Sloly will say that that's what he meant when he said there may not be a policing solution to this on February 2nd. So, you know, is this sentiment which is being expressed by your team member about eight days later, did you agree with it, and did you sort of agree with Chief Sloly or former Chief Sloly that police -- there wasn't a policing solution to some of the grievances?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But that doesn't mean just -- again, to get back to it, that doesn't mean there's no role for police to play, it's just that the police aren't going to deliver on the protesters' demands.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you speak directly to Commissioner Carrique about this email from Deputy Minister Stewart?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you understand that the Commissioner was supportive of you meeting with the Deputy Minister?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00000142, please? I think this is an email exchange between you and the Deputy Minister. And at the bottom of page 1, it's clear that you've sent the Deputy Minister an email and you've said, "As promised, from our brief meeting." And so if you could just describe for us what happened at that meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So who -- was it just you and the Deputy Minister or who else was there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what did you understand his role to be?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what was the ask? What did you understand Deputy Minister Stewart was trying to achieve or trying to get from you at that meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you understand, again, at this meeting, that the government was interested in becoming involved and they were coming to you to find out how to make that happen?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could scroll up, there's a response from Deputy Minister Stewart, "As discussed, for your review and comments. Trying to keep it simple! Note that I dropped your last bullet point as I do not think the government would want police to be making public the commitment." What was the commitment and what did you understand the concern about making it public was?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could just scroll up to the very first email in this, this is a response from Leslie Jean to you after you forwarded the chain. And so I think she's expressing a concern here at, "This piece "The deal would be: leave the protest and denounce unlawful activity and you will be heard"." She says, "I think the ask should be for the leaders to facilitate having people leave, but I wonder if asking them to leave themselves will be met with resistance." So can you tell us about that concern and how that got worked out?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. Okay. If we could go to OPP0000143? These are another series of emails connected to this. If we go to the middle of page 1 -- there we go. So this is you to, again, to Deputy Minister Stewart, Jeffrey Hutchinson and Deputy Chief Ferguson is copied on this email. "Good afternoon attached is a few considerations for the proposal. It is the opinion of [Deputy] Chief Ferguson that the letter go to her and she will ensure the letter is disseminated to the proper people within her organization..." So what conversations had you had prior to this email with Deputy Chief Ferguson?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. In the letter, what was the contemplated sort of scope of the letter or shape of the letter?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Was it ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No, no. That’s exactly what I was going to ask. Was it Deputy Minister Stewart who was going to be meeting, was it -- there were no names being sort of thrown around.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OPP00000150. This is an email thread with RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki as well as OPP Commissioner Carrique and yourself. And so the RCMP Commissioner has reached out to you, essentially, and said that I’ve heard from Deputy Minister Stewart. So what can you tell us about your discussions directly with Commissioner Lucki at this point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And Commissioner Carrique authorized you to sort of deal directly with Commissioner Lucki on this?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, Commissioner Lucki’s email says: “I’m not the SME [subject matter expert] in this area, but my folks are a bit worried on a few items and needed to get your thoughts.” What were the issues that the RCMP was concerned about?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Well, let’s pull up the engagement proposal, and that might help. It's the next one, so it’s OPP00000151. Do you recognize this document?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is this something that you drafted for discussion with the Deputy Minister Stewart the previous day?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. This was the proposal that was ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- going between you, the Deputy Minister and Commissioner Lucki.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Under the principles, the second point says, “Listen and explain the government’s position. No negotiation.” Can you unpack that for us? Was that something that -- again, if you can remember, that you had -- you or your team ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- had put in there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right, okay. So the no negotiation was going to apply to PLT’s discussions with protestors?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Got it. Okay. And that’s what -- I wanted to clarify that. What -- you know, what was your view on that -- that’s a -- the no negotiation aspect in the proposal, was that going to make it difficult to sell to protestors?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then just on the issue of timing, the last bullet point, “In Ottawa target Sunday, February 13”, which was two days after this draft, “is the expected surge date.” Why was that timing chosen?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And were you sort of generally supportive of this proposal as something that might work?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OPP00000171. And if we can go to the bottom of page 4.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sure.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. But it would have reduced the footprint, as you say.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we can go to the bottom of page 4. This is an email exchange -- so now we’re at February 12th, the morning of Saturday, February 12th. And you wrote to Deputy Minister Stewart again, “We should have another quick conversation tomorrow morning.” And it says, “I will have additional follow up ... after consulting police partners.” Had you -- other than Commissioner Lucki, had you consulted any other police partners?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could scroll up on page 3. I mean, essentially Deputy Minister Stewart didn’t want to wait until the next day because time was sort of of the essence. So you wrote him back later that morning, and you’ve sort of laid out some of the considerations and concerns that had arisen. And so the first one there, “It may cross the line between church and state”, I wonder if you can explain that for us.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The next paragraph, page 1, principles, second bullet, “No Negotiation”. I asked you about this before, but just maybe this refreshed your memory. “Negotiation should never be ruled out... From past experiences with you, your team would not have negotiation authority. It should be expanded as ‘negotiation authority’.” And so I take it there was an issue with just putting “no negotiation” in the document. You wanted to see that language softened.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then on the last point there: "Second - ‘coordinated police messaging and action should occur in a unified manner’. While ideal, this is unrealistic, particularly this weekend." Why did you think that was unrealistic?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So you were passing on ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- the RCMP’s concerns?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could to the top of page 3, Deputy Minister Stewart responds to you and raises a number of questions, essentially, in those bullet points at the bottom. And if we could just go through those briefly and if you could tell me whether those were ever sort of addressed in a conversation. "Would the signatory of the letter or the person who goes to the meeting be putting themselves at risk; is that a big concern?"
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Why not?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right, which -- that takes us down to the sort of third point about POI sheets, and there was a concern about who was going to be involved in that negotiation. Did it ever get to that point where you shared a list of names with the government and they raised any issue about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The 12th is the Saturday.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, and why? Where did the -- because I understand you were on board on behalf of the OPP; the OPS was on board; it seems like the RCMP was kind of provisionally on board; so what was the issue?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No, no, so -- but, as far as you know, you got a call from Deputy Minister Stewart ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- the next morning?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you have any further discussions with Commission Carrique or Commissioner Lucki about this negotiation -- this proposal, this strategy after that call from Deputy Minister Stewart?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And as far as you’re aware, that letter wasn’t sent?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OPP00000164. This is -- we’re going sort of back in time by a day or two. This is an email from Deputy Chief Ferguson to yourself on February 11th in the afternoon. If we go to the bottom of page 1, she says: "Good afternoon, Inspector Beaudin. In light of some of the challenges and miscommunications that have occurred thus far, I would like to provide you with the direction I received from Chief Peter Sloly yesterday afternoon as I believe it will assist to reduce such issue moving forward." And then the next two paragraphs talk about integrating the PLT team and sort of more -- I guess to summarize, more effectively using the PLT team. Do you know what prompted this email at this point in time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then -- so, after this date -- this is the 11th -- did you observe a change in the way that PLT was used in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Was it reported to you that they were being used differently?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then, again, I know you weren’t necessarily directly involved but what can you tell us about how PLT was used in the sort of enforcement action towards the end when the POU Plan was being put into place?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And even in those -- that sort of final weekend, did that work? Were people leaving as a result of that PLT messaging?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The last document I want to take you to is OPP00000337, and it’s an email shortly after the events in Ottawa conclude on February 25th that you sent to Supt. Morris, Alakas, and McDonell. And if we could scroll down, this is -- I guess you set out two ideas and so if you can sort of tell us why you sent this email and just summarize the two thoughts that you included in this email.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Inspector, and those are my questions.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
None, Commissioner.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good morning, Commissioner.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
For the record, Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel, and I'd like to call the Commission's next witness, OPP Commissioner Thomas Carrique.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good morning, Commissioner Carrique.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’ll try to refer to you as Commissioner Carrique, since there are a couple of Commissioners on the stage. I’d like to pull up Document WTS00000039, please. And, Commissioner Carrique, you sat for a couple of interviews with Commission Counsel this summer; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I’m pulling up your interview summary. You reviewed this as it was finalized, I take it?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And do you have any corrections to make to it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I understand there was a spelling error on page 8, if we could go to that, just in terms of the name of the police chief for York Regional Police. His name is Jim MacSween and not MacSweeny? Is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And otherwise, the balance remains accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if I could pull up now OPP.IR.00000001? I’m showing you now the OPP’s institutional report. You’re aware of its contents?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes, it’s coming. Thank you. This is the OPP’s institutional report?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And to the best of your knowledge, its contents are accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I take it you adopt it on behalf of the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. Prior to being appointed as Commissioner of the OPP, you were a Deputy Chief of Police with the York Regional Police Service? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you’ve been Commissioner of the OPP since April of 2019?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And can you tell us briefly what that role entails?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I think you sort of told us just now about the various departments or divisions within the OPP. Can you tell us who was in charge of each of those in January and February of 2022?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. And during these Freedom Convoy events of January and February, how often were those individuals reporting to you?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And within the OPP, is there anyone else that you were in that level of contact with on a daily basis during these events?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to ask you now about the OPP’s role in general. And I’d ask the clerk to pull up Document COM00000819, which is a copy of the Police Services Act. And if we go to section 19 of the Act, it sets out the responsibilities of the OPP.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And while we’re getting there, if you could just sort of describe them in terms of your understanding of what the OPP is responsible for?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand from the OPP’s institutional reports that the OPP provides policing services for 328 municipalities? Is that correct?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what percentage of the OPP’s sworn members would be engaged in that kind of front-line policing?
-
Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And that includes maintaining policing in these 330 or 28 municipalities?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so other than the list in section 19, which is on the screen which you just took us through, is there anything else that the OPP is responsible for?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And one of those, I understand, is Public Order Units? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you tell us about the structure of the OPP’s Public Order Units?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand public order maintenance is in fact part of the core police services for any municipal police service? Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if a local police service doesn’t have a Public Order Unit, do they enter into agreements with the OPP for the OPP to provide that service?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And one of those is Ottawa Police Service; I take it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
What about Windsor Police Service?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so do they have an agreement with the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I understand the OPP has sort of divided the province up into five different regions? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how does that work in terms of the administration of the different regions?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And when a detachment's resources are overwhelmed or they need assistance, how is that escalated up the chain within the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is it the same process if there's an external request by a municipal police service for OPP assistance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
In a year?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand from the OPP's website that it is a division of the Ministry of the Solicitor General. So can you explain the relationship between the OPP and Solicitor General's office?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So maybe you can just help us understand what kind of direction would come from the Solicitor General's office.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how does the reporting up to the Solicitor General's office work?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so at the time that that was Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you on a general or frequent basis report to anybody else within the Solicitor General's office?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you -- so you didn't report directly to then Solicitor General Sylvia Jones?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to ask you now about a term that we've heard, which is police of jurisdiction. Can you help us understand what that means and where it's kind of grounded?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And when we talk about a police service of jurisdiction, does that police service have exclusive jurisdiction in their sort of physical bounds?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you've just sort of drawn the distinction between jurisdiction and authorities. Maybe you can ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- help us understand the difference.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now I want to ask you about the circumstances in which the OPP might be called on to step in, and this is addressed at Section 9 of the Police Services Act, which is on the screen, page 11. So the first, subsection 9.1, is at the request of the Commission, which I understand is the Ontario Civilian Police Commission; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so what would that look like? Why would that come about?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so the Commission can direct the OPP, essentially, to step in?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And then if we go down to subsection 4, a local Crown attorney can request the assistance of the OPP; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Subsection 5, it could be requested by a resolution of the local Police Services Board as well.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
What circumstances would that occur?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The Board's ability or that local police service?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go down to subsection 6, a local Police Chief can ask for that assistance in the case of an emergency; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go down to subsection 8, it says, "When a request is made under this section, the Commissioner shall have the [OPP] give such temporary or emergency assistance as he or she considers necessary and shall have the Ontario Provincial Police stop giving temporary or emergency assistance when he or she considers it appropriate to do so." And so am I right in understanding that it is mandatory, if there is a request for assistance, the language of Section 8, it requires the OPP to provide whatever assistance is necessary?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And other than the sort of mechanisms in Section 9 here, are there any other ways in which the OPP's assistance can be formally or informally requested?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so just to be clear, there's no provision which would enable the Solicitor General's office to effectively direct that it occur?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to ask you now about the origins of the Freedom Convoy and when it first came across the OPPs radar; what can you tell us about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Other than the Provincial Liaison Team, or PLT, what other preparations were under way within the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do I understand it correctly that the OPP was the police of jurisdiction, all the way, essentially, from the Manitoba border until the convoys reached Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what did that cooperation with the local services look like?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now I want to ask you about the OPP’s intelligence gathering; and I’m sure you’re familiar with the Hendon reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you personally receive every Hendon report that was published?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you review them as they were published?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you speak with Supt. Morris or anyone else from POIB about them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The January 20th Hendon report mentions that: “Police of jurisdiction resources could be stretched if rallies are organized at the local level to coincide with the arrival of the convoys in a given community.” Is that -- did the OPP take any action in response to the concern that local police of jurisdiction might be overwhelmed or stretched, to use the term?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I’ll ask you about that in a second. But what -- going into the first weekend, which is the 29th and 30th; what was your personal understanding of what this protest was going to look like in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is it your understanding that the Ottawa Police Service had that same understanding of what was going transpire over the weekend, and potentially longer?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What prompted that enquiry?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What -- you know, to your knowledge what steps did the OPP take in that -- again, in that week up leading up to the first weekend to provide assistance to the OPS?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We provided resources; we had provided frontline personnel to assist with traffic management; we had provided Critical Incident Commanders; we had provided a Public Order team that was shared between Parliamentary Protective Services and the Ottawa Police, and we had offered additional resources if required.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Were there any resources sought in that first week that you weren’t able to provide?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we heard from Supt. Abrams last week; what was his role in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, he testified about participating in a January 27th Intersect call; do you know what Intersect is?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And learning on January 27th, which is the Thursday before the first weekend, that the OPS planned to allow 3,000 trucks into downtown Ottawa, did you -- was this information relayed to you before that first weekend?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What was your understanding of what was going to happen with the trucks that first weekend?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And where did that understanding come from?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if you had known, if you had been told on January 27th that 3,000 trucks were going to park in downtown Ottawa, what, if anything would you have done differently?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And again, I appreciate we’re in sort of in a hypothetical, but what additional assistance could the OPP have provided, based on if you had learned of that plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
In speaking about this particular time period, Superintendent Abrams basically described what I think he called a sort of stay in your lane mentality. Is that what you're describing essentially?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand, again, prior to this first weekend, you didn't see and didn't request a copy of the operational plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if you had known that the plan was to allow 3,000 trucks in, would you have asked for a copy of the plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'm sort of expanding out from you personally and just asking, in what circumstances would the OPP ask for the operational plan of another police service?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Mr. Clerk, if we could pull up OPP00004582? I'm taking you to your text message exchange with Deputy Commissioner Harkins. And if we could go to page 10? These are texts exchanged on January 27th, although I believe the timing might actually be sort of Greenwich Mean Time, and so it might be off by a few hours on these text messages. But if we go there, not sure -- and so I think in blue is Deputy Commissioner Harkins. I think green is for your texts; is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So Deputy Commissioner Harkins says, "Not sure you got my message. Reference a briefing tomorrow from mcic. Having RC's all taking part with us as well as Mike from Corp comm's. Karl has concerns around traffic in ottawa core. 417 and 416 may become an issue" And your response, "I did and I'm looking forward to it. Also very interested in what POIB has to say about any risks to Parliament."
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So what were Deputy Commissioner Harkins' concerns about traffic and what were your concerns about Parliament?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I believe Superintendent Abrams, at least in his witness summary and he may have said last week that he reported the 3,000 trucks downtown to Deputy Commissioner Harkins, but you're telling us you never got that information from Deputy Commissioner Harkins?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand you spoke with Chief Sloly on Friday, the 28th of January. Had you spoken with him prior that week?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you tell us about your discussion with him on that Friday?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand one of the issues, which we'll get into and talk about, sort of the need to have a plan, or to understand how your officers are going to be deployed before deploying them. But I take it you didn't have a plan for how these Public Order Units were going to be deployed by the PPS or by OPS on that first weekend?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right, okay. But you're not aware of whether anyone from the OPP received a plan in response to which the request to sort of loan Public Order Units to OPS and PPS was fulfilled?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I'm asking if you know whether anyone from on the OPP side saw a plan for how those Public Order Units would be used that first weekend, and said, okay, we can, you know, give PPS Public Order Units, give OPS Public Order Units.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could pull up OPP00001583? This is an email from Chief Sloly on January 30th, which is going to come up on the screen. Could go down -- thanking a number of I think they're Chiefs of Police for assistance provided during that first weekend. And you respond -- if we go back up to the top, "Thanks for the update and your leadership, Peter." Did it appear to you by the end of this first weekend that everything was under control in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was reported up to you during that first weekend about what was happening?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could go to OPP00004582? This is -- I’m taking you back to your exchange with Deputy Commissioner Harkins, and it’s at page 17. Deputy Commissioner Harkins writes to you: “Just FYI. Our incident commander that is in the ottawa [sic] command center said its [sic] the most unorganized they have ever seen. Comments like they got in here let them try to get out… inappropriate F bombs etc [sic]… being addressed.” “Apparently willing to wait till Wednesday before action to remove if they haven’t already.” And then your response is: “Thanks - you available for a call in the [morning]?” Did you have that discussion with Deputy Harkins? Deputy Commissioner Harkins?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
That’s correct.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I want to ask you about that meeting. Can you tell us your recollection of that meeting?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The meeting with Chief Sloly and Commissioner Lucki, ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- what was discussed?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And we’ve got notes taken by OPS legal council, Christiane Huneault.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So if we could get those up on the screen? It’s OPS00014454, and it’s pages 1 to 3 of those notes. This is a recording by Christiane Huneault of the meeting. And so I think you see the second point there: “we planned for a spring Frid[ay] - Sund[ay] and negotiate our way out of it” “wanted to demobilize Mond[ay] - Wed[nesday]” I think it says. “gone from 3 day demo to multi-day/month occupation” And if we go down a little bit further: “can’t safely remove them unless we have hundreds of officers to maintain…” I think that says “risks.” It’s not clear. The bottom. They’re: “Now transitioned in an occupation” So first of all, did you agree with Chief Sloly’s assessment that it was an occupation at that point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You said it turned into something the Ottawa Police had not anticipated. Is the continued occupation something that the OPP anticipated?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And Chief Sloly said, you know, “We can’t safely remove protestors without hundreds more officers,” essentially. Was that -- did you understand that to be a request to you and to Commissioner Lucki for more resources?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go down to page 2, I think sort of your interjection here is recorded: “Assessment is spot on. This is now an occupation.” “There is sustainability to this movement.” There’s a reference there. No: “…injunction puts us in a different space - then have to act on it. prepare one but timing of getting one is crucial/dangerous.” Why did you -- why were you not supportive of an injunction at this point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could go down to page 3? I think there’s, again, another -- comments which are attributed to you. And you’ll let us know if they’re accurate. But the first point: “we will facilitate all of [the requests or your] requests and get embedded in the command structure.” Can you tell us about that in terms of being embedded in the command structure?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And would it be fair to say that as of the date of this meeting, which is the 31st, the Monday, that the OPS was overwhelmed in terms of their capacity to respond?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And sort of how quickly was the OPP able to actually mobilize resources to the OPS in response to this conversation in particular?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. A few days later, on February 2nd, you mentioned this already, Supt. Abrams was actually kind of formally appointed as the strategic superintendent? Is that right? What did that -- what change did that bring about to the OPP’s role in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I want to pull up an email now which I think you referred to previously. It’s OPP00001576. And this is a request from Chief Sloly on February 2nd for some additional assistance. Go down to the bottom. Chief Sloly -- so if we -- sorry, if we go back up: “…I am seeking your assistance in providing resources to assist the Ottawa Police with our operational plan.” And so are you aware of whether, at this point, February 2nd, anybody, and I appreciate it wasn’t necessarily you, but anybody on the ground, Supt. Abrams, had seen a copy of the operational plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
All right. And there's a series of requests there. Were those requests fulfilled?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you know how long it took to get the PLT, the 50 to 60 uniformed officers there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Why did you ask the Inspector to attend Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And through this kind of first weekend and up to about February 2nd, how often had you been briefing the Deputy Solicitor General?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And were those -- I mean, we've got your sort of text message exchanges ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- which are -- which do brief the Deputy Solicitor General. Would you also have daily phone calls?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, I understand from Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso's witness summary that you and he spoke on February 3rd. Do you recall that conversation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Well, we don't need to sort of pull it up, but his witness summary relays that you first told him about the possibility of a blockade of the Ambassador Bridge on that day. Does that sound roughly accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And the first time that you relay that information to the Deputy Solicitor, whether it was on the 3rd or otherwise, were there any concerns raised in response to what impact that might have?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
By the Deputy Solicitor General.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we'll -- I'll sort of deal with Windsor as a sort of separate subject because I want to keep the focus on Ottawa for the moment. If we could go to OPP00004580. This -- and page 47. These are your -- this is your text exchange with the Deputy Solicitor General. And there it is: "[Good morning] Deputy. No events reported overnight." Sorry, the date on this is February 4th: "I spoke with Commissioner Lucki, Chief Sloly, and Chief Ramer last night. All have access to the necessary OPP resources. We will be continuing to assist OPS and TPS with their requirements today and throughout the weekend." And the Deputy says: "[Thanks, Commissioner Carrique.] Much appreciated." Can you tell us about that discussion with Chief Ramer, and Chief Sloly and Commissioner Lucki the previous evening?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what resources were deployed to Ottawa and Toronto that second weekend of the protest?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And based on what you were hearing from Superintendent Abrams, who was the Strategic Superintendent on the ground, what -- you know, did it seem that everything was under control at that point, on the 4th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to -- so Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso, again in his summary, told us that he spoke with the Toronto Police Service Chief Ramer on February 3rd, which is the Thursday before this, and who explained to Deputy Solicitor General that TPS needed additional resources, and DSG Di Tommaso told him that Chief Ramer, or sorry, told Commission Counsel that Chief Ramer said "the OPP doesn't have resources for us", essentially. Is that accurate that there weren't actually OPP resources to be directed towards Ottawa ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- or actually, Toronto?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So it's not accurate, then, that there weren't OPP resources available, that they did get sent that weekend?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And this weekend of the 5th to the 6th, was the potential blockade of the Ambassador Bridge factored into resource allocations in any way?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to take you now to OPP00001507, which is a forward of an email that Chief Sloly sent to a number of people on his team the morning of February 5th. I'll just -- if we can scroll down, I'll let you review it, see if you can recall seeing this email. It kind of went up through a number of OPP individuals, but if we go down to the main email from Chief Sloly -- there it is -- it’s directed to Deputy Chief Patricia Ferguson, and there are a number of individuals copied on it.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I just -- do you recall receiving this email as a forward?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sure.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we can just scroll down, we’ll let you review it quickly.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Where you received it, you mean?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, sure. You received it from Deputy Commissioner Rose Demarco.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You recall seeing this.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
That’s all right. And so you received this email that morning, and I understand that you actually spoke with Chief Sloly later that day. Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what were your concerns?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was the response to your concerns as expressed on that call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, did you raise those concerns with the Deputy Solicitor-General?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So by this point, we’re February 5th, you hadn’t relayed to the Deputy Solicitor-General that -- you know, any concerns about what was transpiring in Ottawa, whether the OPS had control of the situation.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And as far as you know or as far as you could tell, was the Deputy Solicitor- General concerned about the sort of leadership and what was happening in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to pull up OPP00004583. If we can go to page 3. This is -- these are your text exchanges with Commissioner Lucki, and we’ll go to an exchange on the same day of February 5th. You sent Commissioner Lucki a kind of update on what -- essentially what the OPP has done. And if we can go down, she replies: “Thanks, Tom. Very helpful. Between you and I only, GOCA losing/lost confidence in OPS. We’ve got to get to safe action/enforcement ‘cause if they go to the Emergency Measures Act you or [supposed to be I, I assume] -- you or [I] may be brought into lead, not something I want.” Is this the first time -- so first of all, GOCA, I assume -- I take it that’s Government of Canada?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so Commissioner Lucki is relaying to you that the government has lost confidence in OPS. Did you still have confidence in the OPS at this time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And there’s a reference to the Emergency Measure Act. Was that the first time that that had come up in your discussions with Commissioner Lucki?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Were you surprised to see it at this point on February 5th, a reference to possibly invoking the Act?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And it’s, I guess, sort of a fair reading of Commissioner Lucki’s text that she’s reluctant to have the RCMP come in and sort of take over. Did you share her concern about having the OPP step in and take over the situation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
She says, "You or I may be brought in to lead. Not something I want." Commissioner Lucki doesn't want the RCMP to be kind of pointed and put in charge. Was the OPP taking over the lead role in Ottawa something that you would have welcomed at that time, or would you have been as reluctant to take over as Commissioner Lucki appears to have been?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to ask you about a text exchange with Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso the next day. So if we can go back to OPP00004580? It's at page 61. And you forward a link to a CBC article, and then go down and say, "To date, [approximately] 1501 OPP officers deployed to Ottawa in response to the Freedom Convoy." So was that information that the Deputy Solicitor General had requested from you in terms of the number of OPP officers deployed?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And later that same day, the Solicitor General, Sylvia Jones, made a statement sort of recycling that number, I guess, if I can use that term.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And as you've alluded to, that was something that Chief Sloly was unhappy about; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you tell us about -- did you have a discussion directly with Chief Sloly about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Could you tell us about that discussion?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did he appear to accept that explanation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we scroll down on this page, your follow-up text message to the Deputy Solicitor General, "Not for discussion with OPS, but for your and SOC, at one point, we had three times for uniform officers the ground in Ottawa than OPS did. This has since been balanced out/corrected." What -- can you explain that? You're telling Deputy Solicitor General that the OPP had three times more people on the ground than OPS; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So maybe you can help us understand the concern expressed about the numbers being requested. What was the concern?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You said this was to help the Deputy Solicitor General fend off questions because there was a concern about the numbers that had been requested. What was that concern?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now we've heard witnesses testify about what I'll call the Coventry Road incident. Does that ring a bell?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. What were you made aware of in terms of what happened at Coventry Road?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could pull up OPP00001532? This is an email that Deputy Commissioner Harkins forwarded to you. Sorry, I just want to make sure that the Commissioner caught at the top that it was sent to him.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could scroll down now to the -- it comes from Superintendent Abrams who wrote the email. And just give you a second to read it.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The part I want to ask you about, we don't have to sort of read the whole email, but I want to get down to the two major operational plans upcoming. So if we could scroll down to that part there? So Superintendent Abrams was briefing others, and then this email gets passed onto you about a couple of planned actions, one at Rideau and Sussex, another, which other witnesses have described as sort of snatch and grab or was described as snatch and grab. Then if we scroll down, we see that Superintendent Abrams spoke with Superintendent Patterson and said, as a result -- basically, Superintendent Abrams was not satisfied that there was any sort of plan or legal authority for the OPP POU to be participating in this -- these two plans. Is that a fair assessment of the email?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you recall having discussions amongst your team about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Can you tell us about that discussion?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But you were concerned with the request for OPP members to participate in the Rideau and Sussex dynamic plan to clear that intersection?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to take you back to your exchanges with Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso, which is OPP00004580. If we could go to page 71 at the bottom? So this is on February 7th, the day after Coventry Road: “Is it appropriate to suggest that all officers in Ottawa be advised that jerry cans (whether filled with diesel or water) ought to be investigated and potentially seized. Still seeing some social media of groups of men carrying jerry cans into the red zone.” And then your response: “They have provided that direction, supported by a crown opinion. The latest response is protestors walking around with diesel can[s] filled with water.” What can you tell us about this exchange with the Deputy Solicitor General?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I note that the Deputy Solicitor General’s text is prefaced with “Is it appropriate”. Did you take this to be a sort of suggestion that people carrying jerry cans ought to be arrested in Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could go to OPP0001546? I’m taking you to an email now, again, which was a forward from Supt. Abrams arising out of the call that he had participated in with Chief Sloly and his team on February 6th. So if we just stop there? This is your response, ultimately: “My thanks to Craig. Important info to have.”
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But if we can go down to the text of the email from Supt. Abrams? And so why did you feel that this was important information to have?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So you never discussed what you learned from Supt. Abrams’ email with Chief Sloly?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I think about 25 minutes after you received that email, you had a call with the Deputy Solicitor General and Chief Sloly about the City of Ottawa’s forthcoming request for 1,800 officers. Do you remember being part of that call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Well let’s pull up your witness statement, because I believe it’s in there, which is WTS00000039. It’s at page 4. Paragraph 2. The actual comment might be in Ontario’s Institutional Report. That’s fine. But you recall being aware of it and making the Deputy Solicitor General aware of this kind of doubling the numbers information that you had received?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But it’s -- I just want to make sure we understand. That had no impact on the response to any subsequent requests for additional resources?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up ONT00002343? This is a letter that Mayor Watson and Diane Deans sent to the Premier, Doug Ford, and to the Solicitor General, Sylvia Jones, formally kind of requesting 1,800 additional officers. Would that -- was this sort of politician to politician request unusual?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you know why it didn’t come directly from Chief Sloly in this case?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And ultimately, you know, I take it you received a copy of this letter from the Solicitor General’s office?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was -- I mean, there’s a request for 1,800 officers and you had heard just that morning about the doubling of the number. And did you not approach the 1,800 number with some level of skepticism, given what you had you had learned a few hours before that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But they’re saying -- I mean, here you have the Mayor saying, “We need 1,800.” And so what is the -- and then you’re telling us, but we need the plan to know what you actually need. Is that sort of a fair assessment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to take you back to your exchanges with Deputy Solicitor Di Tomasso -- Solicitor- General, sorry, OPP0004580. And if we could go to page 67. So this -- there’s a text exchange with the Deputy Solicitor-General. Go down. This one lacks a little bit of context, but it says: “Sounds unreasonable ask that will require specific details.” And if we go down to the top of page 68, it says: “Deputy, when you have a minute, we should talk re” pending OPS request for resources.” So what was your discussion with the Deputy Solicitor-General about this public request for 1,800 officers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You mentioned your concern about the publicization of the number. You know, the day prior, the Solicitor-General had published the 1,500 number. Isn’t that the same issue, that, you know, you’re publishing the number of OPP officers -- it turned out not to be an accurate or correct number -- but publishing the number of OPP officers that have responded. Isn’t that the same concern?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we can go down to page 70 of this document, you ask the Deputy Solicitor-General whether the request for 1,800 officers will be referred to the OPP and then the Solicitor-General -- Deputy Solicitor-General says, “Confident it will be referred. Not certain.” And then below that referral to -- sorry, below this text, “referral to OPP for assessment only is approved”. Can you help us understand what “for assessment only” means?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can I just ask why it seemed uncertain or why you had to ask whether it would be referred to you? Would it not be the case that that kind of a request would automatically go to the -- go to the OPP Commissioner?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can pull up ONT00000851. This is the Solicitor-General’s response sent on February 10th, which is three days after the letter, the February 7th letter. And so my question, Commissioner Carrique, is just do you know why it took so long to respond and what happened on the OPP’s side in the interim?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I did want to get into the Integrated Planning Team. Where did that idea come from and why was it necessary?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I won’t take you there in the interests of time, but in a text message exchange with Commissioner Lucki on February 7th, you write: “I spoke with Peter. He is agreeable. I will have C/Supt Carson Pardy in Ottawa tomorrow to get things started.” So ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- I take it you spoke directly to Chief Sloly about this Integrated Planning Cell.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Can you tell us about that discussion?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
The City of Ottawa had requested the 1,800 additional resources the day before, on February 7th. So while the Integrated Planning Cell, or group, or team was getting set up and assembled and starting their work, was any work being done to actually gather those 1,800 officers ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- so that they would be ready?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to pull up OPP00004561, which are minutes from a meeting of the Commissioner's Command Team on February 8th. First of all, can you tell us who -- what is the Commissioner's Command Team?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we can just scroll down. There it is in the middle. "Commissioner", this is attributed to you: "...will need the process with OPS to be established. Where is the plan - can't do anything until we either have it or assist with building it. How are you going to use the resources that you've asked for. Have a SMEAC for the next 24 hours at very least." And so is -- again, I think this is reflecting that, you know, actually sending resources to Ottawa is contingent on either having a plan or assisting in building a plan. Is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can I ask, what about -- why did it take 10, 11 days to get this Integrated Planning Group up and running? There were a few OPP planners who were embedded in Ottawa from a very early stage, but what is it that caused you to put this group together at this time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OPS00014454. These are -- I think we saw these earlier. These are notes taken by Christiane Huneault, who is counsel for the OPS and was taking notes at various meetings. And if we to page 130. And this is not a meeting that you were at ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- Commissioner Carrique. I just -- there's a reference here I want to ask you about. If we go down, it says, towards the bottom of the page, I believe. It says -- this is a meeting that is occurring on the 8th, I believe. "Tom C", and then it's got "OPP" kind of written on top: "...is assessing if we are worthy of getting the additional ask resources." Do you know why that would've -- I mean, that would've been a sense from somebody within the OPS? Why would they have used the word "worthy" of getting the resources?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up OTT00005590.001. You're not on this email chain, but I want to show you a table at the end of this ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- email. This is internal to the City of Ottawa, but it's something that Chief Sloly sent to them. And this is a table with -- I think the total number of resources required there is -- it says 1,790 at the bottom. Maybe make it a little bit larger. Do you recall seeing this table in any other context?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And is this table, I guess there's a couple of tables, is that a level of detail that would be sufficient for you to approve or agree upon sending 1,800 officers to Ottawa?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand from Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso's summary that you spoke with him on February 8th, and he recalls, and it's recorded in his summary, that during that conversation you told him that the OPP was under enormous pressure and that he understood you to be referring to political pressure. Is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So is it possible you told him that you were under enormous pressure and he misread that and misunderstood that to mean political pressure?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry, I'm referring to the OPP, General.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I appreciate that. Commissioner, I'm about to change gears, so I wonder if now is an appropriate time for the morning break?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Back, Commissioner Carrique. I just want to ask one follow-up question from this morning. You mentioned that all police chiefs in Ontario are receiving the Hendon reports; do you recall that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We're good?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So my question is was -- is Commissioner Lucki herself on that distribution list?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Now I want to switch gears and talk about Windsor. And so can you help us understand, I mean, there's Windsor Police Service, there's CBSA, and then there's OPP, so can you help us understand what the OPP has jurisdiction over when it comes to Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Nothing within the city?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now we spoke this morning about the sort of early intelligence, and if we could pull up OPP00000819, this is a January 31st Hendon report. And if we go to page 3, there is -- point 13 is a reference. "Open source information suggests that truck drivers from the United States plan to block the American side of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor to coincide with Canadian drivers blocking the bridge in Windsor. The available information does not include a date or time." To your knowledge, did the OPP take any sort of positive steps to try and figure out when a blockade might occur after this January 31st report?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we go ahead to the February 4th Hendon report, which is OPP00000825, page 6. This is the evening of February 4th. There's a little bit more specificity to the threat here. In a section called "Ontario: Open Source Information", "A social media message is calling for Canada-wide rail blockades on [February 5th]. Commercial truck drivers and supporters may conduct slow rolls on roadways near the Ambassador Bridge over the next three days, and may attempt to block the bridge on [February 7th]." Do you recall being made aware at that time, February 4th, that there was an impending blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Additional assistance was not required?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we pull up OPP000001519, this is -- and it's page 1 at the bottom. This is sort of a note to yourself or an email to yourself from the -- on the same day, February 4th. And it says there, the second to last point, "The Chief of Windsor Police has requested assistance with convoys [...] and a potential blockade [...] at the Ambassador Bridge" So it's my understanding that as of February 4th, Windsor had, in fact, asked for assistance. Does this kind of give you a better sense of what had been requested and when?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I guess I'm just -- I'm confused because your note records being asked for -- a request for assistance, but you're saying there hadn't been a formal request yet?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Well, I think the Hendon report we saw talked about both, like, rolling -- slow rolls on the weekend and then a potential blockade on the Monday.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00004580, which is -- this is your thread with Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso. I just -- I'm just bringing it up because if we go to page 52, I think the same information recorded in your note to self there, it was provided to Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso, if you see that at the bottom. "The Chief of Windsor Police has requested assistance with convoys [...] and a potential blockade [...] at the Ambassador Bridge." And this was sent on February 5th. Do you recall any discussion with the Deputy Solicitor General around that time about the potential impact of a Windsor blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
It does. But just so we understand, I mean, even a sort of detachment level request is a request and it’s -- like it would be actioned. It’s not that a request would need to be made directly to you by the Windsor Police Service for assistance. Is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. On February 6th, just very briefly, there was a blockade at the Blue Water Bridge in Sarnia. Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But that fell into OPP jurisdiction?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And how was that resolved?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Going back to Windsor, Deputy Chief Crowley told us about that he attended an OACP meeting on February 7th, OACP being the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And that there were RCMP and OPP officers there. I don’t believe you were at that meeting. I think it was Superintendent McDonell. Does that sound accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
He told us -- this is Deputy Chief Crowley -- told us that he raised the possibility of the blockade, which hadn’t yet happened -- it started that evening - - and that he was told by his RCMP and OPP colleagues on the call that Ottawa as the priority at the time and there essentially weren’t any resources for Windsor. Is that an accurate representation of kind of what was available on February 7th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Prior to the blockade occurring, which was some time on the 7th, did you have discussions with the Deputy Solicitor-General about whether there would be a need to prioritize Windsor over Ottawa if a blockade did occur?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did the financial impact of the blockade affect the fact that Windsor was a priority?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you said that that is something that needs to be considered, but I just want to be clear. It is something that was considered in the need to quickly clear the blockade in Windsor. Is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to go back to just working our way through what happened in Windsor. And I think you referred to this earlier, but similar to what happened in Ottawa, the Mayor of Windsor in fact had conversations directly with Solicitor General Sylvia Jones and Minister Mendicino. You’re aware of that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Again, and does that strike you as sort of an odd way to request police resources in the circumstances?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you ever ask former Chief Mizuno why you had been told they didn’t need anything, and then very shortly thereafter, there’s this public request for additional resources?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you ever ask her why -- again, you had a contact with her, so did you ever ask her why she didn’t just come to you and ask and instead the Mayor -- well, she sent a letter, ultimately, but she never made that request directly to you?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And sorry, did you ever ask her why that was the case?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I’d like to go back to your exchange with Deputy Solicitor General, OPP00004580. If we can go to page 72? Scroll down. So we see here, so the Deputy Solicitor General says: “Also. What’s the latest on Ambassador bridge? Fed DM Stewart asking also impact on Stellantis?” What is Stellantis?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. There’s your response.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Stellantis is -- you know, if I were to tell you that it’s an auto maker, essentially, a manufacturer of parts, does that sound accurate? Does that ring a bell?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And do you know why the Deputy Solicitor General was passing on a sort of question from a federal counterpart about, like, a private business, essentially?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Can you tell us what assistance was provided in response to the letters seeking 100 additional officers from each of the OPP and the RCMP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you -- did the OPP deploy officers to Windsor in the absence of seeing the operational plan that they were going to use to clear the blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand on February 9th, OPP Superintendent Dana Earley was appointed in sort of in charge of the OPP’s Windsor presence. Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you appoint her or was she appointed by a Deputy Commissioner?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And now I want to sort of return to the issue of Windsor being a priority, because again, this is something that came up with the Deputy Solicitor. And so his summary records that it was his understanding, the Deputy Solicitor General, that the occupation in Ottawa was limited to the red zone, with a main impact on Wellington, and it was in -- he calls it a significant inconvenience, but not an overriding public safety risk, whereas in Windsor, the blockade had a significant and substantial impact on economic security, resulted in plants shutting down, loss of jobs, and that law enforcement had finite resources and could not effectively address both situations, essentially. And so I want to understand if you agree with these sentiments about what Ottawa represented, what Windsor represented, and the fact that law enforcement couldn’t clear both at the same time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You mentioned the February 7th Hendon Report, which I think the language is "potential" ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- potential national security threat. The next day's Hendon report said potential threat to Canada's sovereignty and national security. Those are the only two times that phrase appears in the Hendon reports.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But I take it you're aware that once the February 7th Hendon Report was published, using the phrase "potential threat to national security", CSIS and INSET contacted Superintendent Morris and were concerned with the use of that phrasing and that language in the Hendon reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think the Superintendent's evidence was that there were now threats that materialised and he ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- said there were no credible threats to national security. Do you agree with that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just so I understand, based on your testimony just now, when the Hendon reports use the phrase, "national security" are you saying economic security is part of that -- like that's bound up in national security?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to go back to Windsor now, and just make sure I understand it. Did you ever receive a direction from the Deputy Solicitor General's Office that Windsor ought to be prioritised as a result of its economic importance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But it's fair to say that the OPP did prioritise it, in part, as you've told us, due to its economic importance.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You say not at the cost. Again, just returning to Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso, and I will say he sort of speculated, but it was his opinion that Ottawa might have been cleared sooner had Windsor not been prioritised essentially. Is that -- would you agree with that assessment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Is it fair to say that resources went from Windsor to Ottawa to action the plan in Ottawa once Windsor was cleared? Is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand. I want to take you now to notes of a call from February 10th with the Deputy Solicitor General. It's ONT00005155. These are not your notes, these are the ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- Deputy Solicitor General's notes. And it's hard to tell if it's a seven o'clock or a nine o'clock. You might remember. It says: "Call [with] Comm Carrique, OPP. Direction to CIC that they are in removal mode." Do you know what is being referred to there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right, and that is accurate. I'm just wondering if as of the 10th, which is the day after Superintendent Earley had been dispatched to Windsor, there was a direction that you know, we -- like, we have to clear this blockade. Removal -- I take from removal mode, like, we were removing the protesters. And I don't know if that helps.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to take you now to Superintendent Earley's notes, scribe notes. I believe OPP00004543, if we can go to page 8? Again, these are her scribe notes. You're not part of this call, but I want to ask you ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- about what is transcribed. It's a call, again, the morning of February 10th, 8:30 a.m., with Deputy Commissioners Harkins and diMarco. And Deputy -- so this is what's recorded, "Deputies advised whatever is needed for plan will be available"
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you go down a little bit more, "Harkins advised there is an urgency to get this resolved" Had you communicated to Deputy Commissioners Harkins and DiMarco that there was an urgency to getting Windsor resolved?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now I understand on this day as well, February 10th, Superintendent Earley actually sort of established a call for joint command with WPS; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And can you explain for us the concept of joint command and why it's so important in a situation like this?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was the status of joint or integrated or unified command in Ottawa at this time on February 10th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we'll get into those obstacles. But in Windsor, on the 11th, this idea of a letter to the protesters comes about. Can you speak to us about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you understand that there was the POU plan, or a sort of plan to clear the blockades that was ready at that time as well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And were you the sort of point of contact with the government in getting their sign off on agreeing to the letter and agreeing to this proposal in general?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just so I understand, when you said the request, the request of government to sign off -- of the provincial government to sign off on this idea?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And did you personally make that request through the Deputy Solicitor General, for instance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up that letter, it's ONT00000858. I believe this is the letter, if you can just -- if you could confirm?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So why was -- who made the decision to have it be directed towards you as opposed to directed to the protesters, for instance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so why did you ask that it be addressed to you?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, this is February 11th, it’s the same day of the provincial Declaration of Emergency; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And are you aware there was also an injunction that went into effect that evening as well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So can you just sort of speak to -- you’ve got this letter from the Solicitor- General, you’ve got the injunction which has gone into effect, I think at 7:00pm that evening, and the provincial Declaration of Emergency; how did those three interact together and which of them, if any, did you believe were the most effective in that circumstance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. The described notes for Supt. Earley, we won’t go there, but they record some concern that delivering the letter or taking action in Windsor would have an effect on what was going on in Ottawa. Do you recall that concern being raised in any of the calls on the 11th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you see -- did the OPP see any effects of taking action in Windsor on the 12th and 13th on what happened in Ottawa or elsewhere?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so -- did you participate in the drafting of this letter with the Deputy Solicitor-General’s Office?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Was there a similar -- was any similar requests made to have a letter delivered to the protesters in Ottawa, for instance?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. But I guess what I’m trying to understand is why this letter came about as a result of, as you say, an OPP request, essentially, that it be delivered?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
This letter was the result of a request to the Deputy Solicitor-General’s office; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Which you passed along to the Deputy Solicitor-General’s office?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so -- and this letter is drafted four days after the blockade starts in Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so -- but by the 11th it’s two weeks into what’s happening in Ottawa, and there wasn’t a similar request for a letter in Ottawa. That’s what I’m trying to understand; why not?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And why was that important to you?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You mentioned there that -- again, I’m paraphrasing, but you felt that public trust in the police couldn’t suffer another blow, essentially. Is that -- when you say that, you’re referring to the fact that the situation in Ottawa is entrenched and it’s not being resolved by police action at that point in time; is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, I understand that the Saturday, February 12th was one of the busier days for the OPP in terms of responding to protests; is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so on the 12th, one of the busier days, were there places or protests, or requests for assistance that the OPP just couldn’t fulfill?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, going back to Ottawa, the Integrated Plan Group starts its work on the 8th or the 9th, but there isn’t a sort of fully developed plan until the 13th, fully developed and signed off on. So why is that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you receive and review and sign off on a copy of the Integrated Plan?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so it would -- it was up to C/Supt. Pardy? He would have had final kind of approval on it without the need to escalate it any higher?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, we heard evidence on Tuesday from Insp. -- Acting Supt. Beaudin about this proposal from Deputy Minister Stewart in which Commission Lucki was involved as well. So I appreciate you weren’t involved in the back and forth, but I want to ask you what you knew about it and sort of what you reported to the Deputy Solicitor General’s Office about it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was the provincial Deputy Solicitor General’s view on it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And sorry, when I asked for his view, I just mean as it was communicated to you, obviously. Was he -- he was supportive of it, as far as you understood?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to take you to OPP00001585, which is an email thread about lining up tow trucks. You had stated, February 13th, if we can go down to page 3, when we pull it up. So I believe you’re -- I’m not sure if you’re on this initial chain, but it’s ultimately forwarded to you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And sorry, even prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act, there were tow trucks and towing companies looking to be compelled?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And where -- you’re talking about prior to the invocation of the Act? Is that ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Right. And so I was going to ask you, after the reference in the February 5th text message exchange with Commissioner Lucki, had you heard anything about the possibility that the Act would be invoked or was it, as you say, sort of a surprise?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to go back to sort of February 15th, ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- which is the day on which former Chief Sloly resigned. You had two calls with Commissioner Lucki and other members of the OPS on that day? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the first one, which was just RCMP and OPP, was prior to Chief Sloly’s resignation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I want to take you to the minutes of that call, which is OPP00000787. Just while that’s getting pulled up, you referred earlier to sort of a plan being ready by February 13th, but not being operationalized by the 15th. To your understanding, what was the delay? What was the problem?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we can kind of scroll through these minutes, but I want to -- I want you to tell us what was discussed on this first call, if it was just RCMP and OPP.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was -- and to your recollection, we can go through the minutes, but was the solution that you and Commissioner Lucki were -- how were you going to deal with this decision?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You told us, as we saw the text message from Commissioner Lucki previously, where she was relaying that the Government of Canada had lost confidence in the OPS by February 5th. By February 15th, had you lost confidence in the OPS’s ability to manage the situation?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Did you feel that it was time for that request, that the OPP be asked formally to step in?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But isn’t -- I’m just trying to understand. Isn’t that another way of saying you had lost confidence in the OPS’s ability? You wanted to be asked to step in and take over.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And you say if that assistance was not sort of received. I take it you mean sort of willingly welcomed.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. You never had occasion to have that conversation with Chief Sloly; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
He resigned some time after or maybe even during this call. Is that -- is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then you had a follow-up call with Commissioner Lucki and this time with members of the OPS as well.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if I could get OPP 00000788. I think these are the minutes from that second call on that day. While they’re being brought up, can you tell us about what -- what was discussed during that call?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And had you not had success in achieving unified command until this call with then Interim Chief Steve Bell? Like you just described that, okay, we’re going to have unified command. We’ve got this plan and we are going to action it. What had been the impediment to doing that on the 14th or on the 13th when the plan was completed?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. But the result of this second conversation -- the resignation and the second conversation and the plan for unified command was that you no longer had concerns to escalate to the Deputy Solicitor-General. Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you –- on the 15th, before, between, or after these calls, did you speak to the Deputy Solicitor General about what had transpired?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Was your concern because you had heard that there was going to be an external interim chief?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you relayed that to the Deputy Solicitor General?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did you specifically mention Steve Bell as an appropriate interim chief or did you just ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- relay the concern?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. Commissioner, I see we're at one o'clock, and now would be -- I'm about to change gears, so now's a perfect time.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Commissioner. We have about 20 minutes and then we'll be open to the other parties.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I just want to pick up on something that you mentioned before the lunchbreak. I think you referred to a public -- in talking about national security, you referred to a Public Safety Canada definition of national security, which you've distinguished from the sort of CSIS Act definition of national security. Do you remember that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And when you say Public Safety Canada, are you talking about your dealings with Public Safety Canada, like their website? I guess I'm trying to understand where this arises.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Is there anything that -- non-public about what you're referring to, or is it just Public Safety Canada material?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay, thank you. I'm not going to pull up the document, but there's -- the Commission has seen an email from Commissioner Lucki to Mike Jones the evening of February 13th, and I want to read the -- what Commissioner Lucki wrote and ask you if you agree with it. She wrote: "This said, I am of the view that we have not yet exhausted all available tools that are already available through the existing legislation. There are instances where charges could be laid under existing authorities for various Criminal Code offences occurring right now in the context of the protest. The Ontario Provincial Emergencies Act just enacted will also help in providing additional deterrent tools to our existing toolbox." (As read) Do you agree with this sentiment that Commissioner Lucki expressed there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
February 13th. The...
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Evening of February 13th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00001580, please? This is an email that you wrote to Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso on February 16th.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the second paragraph, "A good portion of the demonstrators don't care about being charged criminally, or they would have left already; however, if they live in Ontario, they will care about losing their vehicle insurance and/or license." Can you explain that view to us and how and why you formed that view?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now the tow truck issue, if I can call it that, as we've heard evidence on it, and so I believe you told us in your interview that the OPP did not compel the provision of tow truck services; is that accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I would like to pull up document PB.NSC.CAM00007378 with the REL 001 suffix. This is a letter that you wrote to Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso on February 22nd. Have you seen this letter recently?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could just scroll down to page 4, I understand the power to compel tow truck services was delegated to you; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Is ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we could go -- and, sorry, what's on screen is the actual delegation of that authority?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could go up to page 2? So that last paragraph, "While this situation is unprecedented, the OPP worked with Legal and determined that because we are engaging [tow companies -- sorry, engaging] companies under the provisions of the Emergencies Act, not as a procurement, contract or agreement, that we should work within the 'reasonable compensation' provisions consistent with the terms of the regulations." And so I just -- is that not -- are you not saying in that paragraph that you have, in fact, compelled companies under the Emergencies Act? And if not, can you help us understand what that paragraph means?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So it's fair to say then that they were indemnified under the Emergencies Act, but they were not actually compelled under the Emergencies Act?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we actually scroll down, I think that correspondence is attached to this letter, pass the authorization to all identified towing companies. That's the correspondence you're referring to?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Commissioner Carrique, in my last sort of 10 minutes, I want to ask you a few bigger picture questions. And the first one is about incident command. You are one of very few people who are going to testify at this Commission who has sat atop a police organization. And so I'm sure the Commissioner will be interested in your thoughts on proper role of a Police Chief when it comes to the Incident Command System.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah, we looked at Section 9 of the Police Services Act ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- earlier, and that set out the situations under which the OPP might be called on to assist. In your view, is there -- should that be revisited, or should there be other mechanisms by which the OPP could become engaged when an event overwhelms a local, municipal police force?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Looking at Ottawa and what happened in Ottawa, you told us, and we've seen emails that you offered whatever support was necessary. Whatever you need, Chief Sloly, OPS, it's yours. We've also heard, again, from witnesses who have testified, that -- and you’ve said this yourself, that it wasn’t -- it’s not possible or it’s not advisable or feasible to send resources without -- in the absence of a plan. And so -- and I know we’ve touched on this, but I just want to -- I want to put this to you, that there’s sort of a contradiction there, that, you know, “we will do anything we can to help you” versus “we really need to see a plan from you before I send one more OPP officer to Ottawa”. Can you help us understand it, you know, why that’s not a contradiction, if it’s not a contradiction?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Turning to Windsor a moment, I believe OPP counsel in their opening referred to it as a success story in terms of how it was handled, which may be true in terms of the amount of time it took to clear the blockade, but based on the fact that there was intelligence that this blockade was potentially coming for several days, if not a week, before it happened and the importance of Windsor, was it preventable?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
That’s okay. My final question. You told us this summer that there’s a limited formal role for the OPP to kind of coordinate resources across Ontario. Do you think, looking back in hindsight, that a more active and early engagement by the OPP in bringing resources together could have prevented certain protests or shortened the protests that did occur?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Commissioner Carrique. Those are my questions.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Commissioner, if I could just interject quickly. I got a request from the translators that counsel slow down when -- especially when reading. They're having a hard time keeping up.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Commissioner, just -- it's Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel. Just a reminder that Counsel require leave to cross-examine on a witness statement. Ms. King made us aware of this, but just for the record, leave is required ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry, go ahead.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I was just going to add that Superintendent McDonnell is a witness whose statement the Commission intends to enter into evidence. He's not a witness who will be called to give evidence or that the Commission intends to call to give evidence, as a relevant background for the question of leave.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Eric Brousseau, Commissioner Counsel, for the record. Commissioner Carrique, just two very brief points and one slightly longer point. The first is if I could get your witness summary up, which is WTS00000039? And if we go to page 5, in the middle of that page? This is just to clarify, in response to a friend -- a question from my friend, Mr. Champ, about the number of officers deployed to Windsor. So if you see there at the last sentence of that paragraph: “In total, the OPP deployed 410 members to assist WPS. The Minimum number of members deployed in a 24-hour period was 38 and the maximum was 263.” And it actually cites, in footnotes, to the Institutional Report?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Is that -- is what is in your summary accurate in terms of the number of officers deployed to Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. and so it’s not 410 at any one time? The maximum, as we see, is 263? Is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. A second document that I want to put to you is OPS00001547. You in fact -- sorry, Mr. Clerk, as you’re doing that, I think it might be OPP00001457, a mistake the parties make often on their witness lists. This is -- when the clerk pulls it up, it’s an email from Chief Sloly to you and to Commissioner Lucki the evening of February 13th. And I asked you, and when you were cross-examined, sort of about the calls that you had -- the two calls that you had with Commissioner Lucki on the 15th. Do you recall that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I think you said one of your concerns was the delay in sort of moving forward. Is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so I just wanted to clarify, you received this, you were still hearing after the 13th that Chief Sloly was -- there was an impediment and that Chief Sloly might be part of that impediment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Which was inconsistent with what you had received from Chief Sloly the evening of February 13th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And the last issue I want to address is the issue of the tow trucks, because I think it’s important that we all understand sort of the order and the sequence of events. And so if I could take you to OPP00001585, which is a document that I took you to this morning. This is the email from Deputy Commissioner Di Marco, which ends up being forwarded to you. If we can go down to Deputy Commissioner Di Marco’s initial email at the bottom, which is dated February 13th at 2:29 p.m. So, Deputy Commissioner Di Marco reports to the group: “Companies who would provide service: 7 [companies] with 34 total Heavy Tow units” Is that consistent with what you understand to be the case as of that time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if we scroll down -- sorry, just at the bottom of that email actually. The last paragraph: “As you suggested, it may be very helpful to have the immunity Emerg Order ready for community members to assist with land/facilities if required.” Do you know what the Deputy Commissioner is referring to here?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
It’s February 13th at 2:29.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Correct. This is ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If this -- this is a reference to the EMCPA, if anything?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And it’s -- as I think you just pointed out, it’s a reference to the staging areas for tow trucks or for trucks that are towed, not to a concern on behalf of the towing companies themselves? Is that fair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And then we’ve -- the Emergency -- so the Act is invoked on February 14th. The Emergency Management -- the Emergency Measures Regulations are published on the 15th. And I take it you’re aware, those required a -- either a written request to render services or a verbal request followed up in writing as soon as possible?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I won’t take you to it in the interest of time, but you’re February 17th letter, which we saw this morning and this afternoon, you’ve actually written in there, this is the one that goes to all identified towing companies, it says: “This letter is written confirmation of verbal instructions from the OPP acting on behalf of the RCMP to provide these services from the date of the Regulations coming into force [which was the 15th] and notice that you are required to continue to comply and provide these services.” (As read)
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So your letter, just so we understand, your letter was that sort of after the fact written confirmation of the verbal direction to provide towing services?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And my friend for the Government of Canada took you to your letter to Deputy Solicitor General Di Tommaso on February 22nd. And part of that letter, again, in the interest of time, I will just read it to you, you updated the Deputy Solicitor General and said: “As matters unfolded operationally in real time, the Ontario Provincial Police was made aware of the following:" (As read) And the first bullet point, which you may recall: "The vendor community was highly reluctant to assist the police." (As read)
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so -- and my question is if you can assist us in terms of what transpired and the timing because it appears from Deputy Commissioner DiMarco's email that as of the afternoon of the 13th there are tow truck companies lined up, but at some point you have compelled them verbally and followed up with confirmation in writing. What changed for the towing companies between the 13th and the 17th when you sent the letter?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And was the concern across -- sort of unanimous across these 7 companies and 34 trucks, or were there companies, to your knowledge, that would have participated without being compelled?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner, those are my questions.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Commissioner. For the record, Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel. Very, very briefly, I just rise to give notice formally. The documents that the Police Team is bulk entering this week, it -- my colleague Mr. Mather sort of explained the process on the record I believe last week. We circulated a list last week. We received objections. Those documents have been removed from the list and Commission Counsel will deal with those objections with the parties. The final list was circulated to the parties this morning and those documents will be marked as exhibits. They are a number of emails and other documents from the OPS, the OPP, the WPS, Windsor Police Service, as well as a few RCMP documents and the City of Ottawa documents, and including witness summaries for witnesses who, importantly, are not going to be called to testify, but whose evidence we wish to put in by way of summary.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Mr. Clerk, it's Eric Brousseau. I think -- I've opened the document that my friend I think sent you, and I think it's 7724 would be the second text message that he's trying to refer to.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We'll have five minutes.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yes, Commissioner. Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel for the record. Before we call the next witness, I just want to formally table the bulk entry list from last week, which some may have noticed was not tabled. The list being entered today was first circulated on October 24th. We asked parties for their objections by 5:00 p.m. on November 1st. Commission Counsel received those objections, removed those doc IDs from the list. And the final list consists of 250 documents identified by Commission Counsel working on the police aspect of the Commission's mandate, as with the prior lists, emails, plans, a number of documents which we did not have time to put to the witnesses. And as well, there were 92 documents identified by Commission Counsel working on the protester aspect of the Commission's mandate, largely documents produced by the convoy organisers group, but other Commissioned documents OPS, JCF, and a few other parties. So those now will be sort of formally tagged and marked as exhibits. And I also just want to speak very briefly about the process for resolving the objections, which the parties were advised of this morning. Going forward, Commission Counsel will be using a revised template to send out the document IDs each week. We will continue to give a week's sort of notice and opportunity to review the documents. By five p.m. the following Monday, we will ask for the parties to put their objections in writing within that Excel spreadsheet. We will, as Commission Counsel, put them together and then try to deal with them directly with the party who has objected, and if not, Commission Counsel will embed their responses within that sheet, which will then be up to you, Commissioner, to sort of make a decision on the admissibility. The default will be that it will be done in writing, so parties are being encouraged to put their submissions as fulsomely as they would like in that Excel. Oral hearings will be sort of exceptional, subject to your discretion. This is the process which we will use starting today, for this week's bulk entry. And at some point, we will communicate a timeline for dealing with all of the objections, which have accrued to date. And so I just wanted to put that on the record. And now I'd like to call the Commission's next witness, which is Deputy Chief Crowley of the Windsor Police Service.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good afternoon, Deputy Chief Crowley.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
What is your current rank with the Windsor Police Service?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And that's not the same rank that you held in January and February; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'd ask the Clerk to pull up your witness statement, which is WTS00000017. You'll recall sitting for an interview with Commission Counsel this summer?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And you reviewed this witness statement before it was finalized?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And do you have any corrections that you'd like to make to it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you. Everything else remains accurate, to your knowledge?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I'm also going to ask that the Windsor Police Service Institutional Report be pulled up. That is WPS.IR.00000001. And you've reviewed this in preparing to attend today?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And does that remain accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Absolutely. Just you just let Mr. Clerk know which page?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Thank you.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And the rest remains accurate?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now so in your role at the time as Superintendent of Investigation Services, what did that entail?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so you're trained as a Critical Incident Commander?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I understand you were appointed as one of the two Critical Incident Commanders from WPS for this incident?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And at the time of the convoys, did WPS have any Public Order Unit trained officers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
How about Police Liaison Team?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we heard Mayor Dilkens this morning explain to us a little bit about jurisdiction, but perhaps you can just sort of refresh us and help us in terms of what WPS's responsible to police versus the RCMP versus the OPP in this Windsor area.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so when an incident occurs on the bridge, who responds?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I want to ask you a little bit about the intelligence leading up to the blockade. Now I understand there were a number of slow roll protests that had come through Windsor previously; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
When did those start?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So before that, there had been slow rolls in the Windsor area, but nothing that targeted the bridge ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- specifically? Okay. And how long had these slow rolls lasted typically?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now you're familiar with the terms Project Hendon and the Hendon reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You were receiving those directly from the OPP?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Did you read them when you received them?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Would you have discussed most of the Hendon reports with Insp. DeGraaf on a daily basis?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And did you brief Deputy Chief Bellaire or Chief Mizuno on the reports?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So I’d like to bring up the Hendon report for January 31st, which is OPP00000819. And this, if we can go to page 3, looking for point 13. This is, again, like I said, from the 31st. So point 13 says: “Open source information suggests that truck drivers from the United States plan to block the American side of the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor to coincide with Canadian drivers blocking the bridge in Windsor. The available information does not include a date or time.” So do you recall seeing that at the time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what steps did the Windsor Police take to prepare for that possibility?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Would this information have gone to the OPP from Windsor Police, or this is coming to you through the Hendon report, and you’re sort of learning of it for the first time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, a few days later -- I’m sort of skipping ahead to February 3rd, I believe you told us this summer that the Windsor Police learned through monitoring social media that there was a slow roll planned for the coming weekend; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And at that point in time, was there an indication of a blockade on February 3rd?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And from what I understand at that point perhaps if it was a little bit more serious and Chief Mizuno actually sort of put you in charge of the Windsor Police Service’s response to that intended slow roll; is that correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what did that response look like?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And what was the plan? I mean, you mentioned, “What if?” What was the plan if the slow rolls just blocked the bridge?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And if I could just stop you there for a second, because we talked about slow rolls and how the Windsor Police Service just, you know, took steps to facilitate those in the weeks leading up to it. I mean, section 132 of the Highway Traffic Act prohibits unnecessarily slow driving, so a slow roll, depending on the speed, would be contrary to the Highway Traffic Act; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so why was it that the Windsor Police Service was, to use your words, were facilitating those protests?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
If we could pull up OPP00000825? I’m taking you to the Hendon report, dated February 4th. And Mr. Clerk, if we could go to page 6? There’s a section entitled, “Ontario: Open Source Information (Media and Social Media).” And so this right there, the second point: “Commercial truck drivers and supporters may conduct slow rolls on roadways near the Ambassador Bridge over the next three days, and may attempt to block the bridge on [February 7].” I think this is the first time that there’s actually a kind of specific date to a potential blockade, is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And in light of this information in this Hendon report, what steps were taken to prepare?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Fair enough. I’d like to take you to the Operational Plan for dealing with a slow roll now, which is WPS00001883. Although it might actually be five zeros, I think; WPS’s use nine digits. And so I think this is the operational plan that you had asked to be put together on February 4th for the slow rolls. You’ll be able to tell me if that’s correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, if we go down to page 2 on the “SITUATION”, in the middle of the paragraph. “There is further mention of the ongoing protests/blockade situation at Coutts, Alberta Port of Entry with intention to mirror this type of activity in Windsor at the Ambassador Bridge Port of Entry.” And if we can go down to the “EXECUTION”? The same page, the fourth point: “They will be utilizing this route for 3 days then consider Ambassador Bridge blockade on February 7, 2022.” And so I mean I think there was pretty clear evidence as of the 4th that the 7th was going to be the day of a blockade if one was going to occur. Is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so what kind of assistance did Windsor Police Service seek at that point?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand that Chief Mizuno spoke with Commissioner Carrique of the OPP on February 4th as well?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know -- I don’t think you were on that call, but did Chief Mizuno relay to you what was discussed?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So on the 4th, the intention was to be setting up a perimeter to try to prevent the blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I take it you didn’t have a time on the 7th? You didn’t know anything more than something might materialize on the 7th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to take you to I think probably one of the emails you just mentioned, which is WPS000001880. This is an email exchange between yourself and someone named Dwight Thib of the OPP. Who is Dwight Thib?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And he says in this email: “As discussed, you can continue to liaise with our Essex Detachment Command team…”
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
“Should intel be received or action by demonstrators taken to shut down the […] bridge dont [sic] hesitate to reach out…”
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And at this point, I guess what I’m trying to understand, even on the 4th, there is a threat of a blockade on the 7th. And the response is at the local OPP detachment level, nothing that kind of was escalated above that from a resource perspective?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think you mentioned earlier that there were 35 officers dispatched as part of that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And those would have all come from the Essex Detachment?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And your summary of our interview this summer mentions that you spoke with a CBSA officer and RCMP officer, Border Integrity Officer on that day as well. What can you tell us about that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Neither of them were -- neither the CBSA nor the RCMP were taking steps to prepare for, like, the blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I’d like to take you to another Hendon Report dated February 6th. That’s OPP00001622. And on page 6, there’s, again, a reference to the possible attempt to block the Ambassador Bridge. So this is now -- February 6th is the Sunday. What steps were being taken that weekend to prepare? The 5th, the 6th. The information still says, “Yeah, Monday, there’s likely to be a blockade.”
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we’ll talk about that in a moment.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
But that evening of the 6th, there was a slow roll protest at Mic Mac Park; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what happened there?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Disengage from the protestors?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, you mentioned by this point you had seen what was going on in Ottawa, so if you can just pause there briefly and tell us what -- up to the 6th, what lessons the Windsor Police Service had taken away from what had been going on in Ottawa for 10 days by then?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And those are all -- you’re saying those are all lessons you had taken away from what had been going on for 10 days.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I’d like to pull up WPS00000221. These are some emails early in the morning between Deputy Chief Bellaire and Chief Mizuno. I’ll ask you about them.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We’re still on the 7th. Chief Mizuno emails Deputy Chief Bellaire: “If we know then they are coming and where from, any thought to stopping the convoy and negotiating some terms before they reach the bridge? It sounds like they want the transports to leave the convoy with everyone following, so there may be an opportunity to try to control it.” And then Deputy Chief Bellaire says, “Yes, talking to JC about that exact thing.” I assume JC is ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So what can you tell us about his attempts at negotiation the morning that the convoy is descending upon Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I understand that, ultimately, there were sort of multiple groups of protestors that set up in Windsor. Was that apparent at this stage the morning of February 7th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And did that original slow roll organizer ultimately participate in the blockade of the bridge?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Now, I’d like to go to WPS000000266. These are emails between yourself and somebody at the RCMP. Kevin McGonigal, I think is the name that you ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
--- gave us before. So he is writing to you again the morning of the 7th: “Wanted to check in to see how things are going in Windsor this morning. As you are aware, we are being requested to support Ottawa with the situation there. We will have to balance operational response in all of our border points, especially Windsor, Sarnia, Erie, etc. Evaluating what is going on in those locations will assist with our decisions.” So I guess my first question is, what sort of pre-February 7th assistance was the RCMP making available, had they made available to the Windsor Police?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And there’s sort of a reference made to balance operational response. Now, I’m just talking about the convoy protest in general. Did that -- did that play out in the sense of did you see an inability or a reticence or were you told, “We can only send you X number of officers because we’ve got to police a whole bunch of different protests”?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I think you told us this summer, and it’s in your statement, that you attended a meeting of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police Committee that day on the 7th and you were told effectively the same thing, there’s a limit to the number of resources that we have for Windsor.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how about when it came to the OPP? At this stage on the 7th, were you being told the same thing, there’s -- you know, we can only give you X number of officers, vehicles?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what was the response?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And I think I’ve got the email, but tell me if I’m wrong. If we could pull up WPS000000374. This is an email from February 8th. This may not be the one that you’re looking for, but you reach out to Superintendent Early and say: “Hi, Dana. I received direction from Orillia to contact you if our blockade occurred and began to get to a point where extra resources may be required. It’s relatively manageable. I know your people are very spread out, but my ask at this point is if we were to need POU or PLT down here, what would availability be?”. This is the email?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And again, what -- I don’t know that we have a response, not in this thread, but what was the response in terms of availability?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And what kind of coordination occurred with the CBSA at this point once the blockade started?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Which other organisations were part of the Command Team?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. If we could pull up WPS000000235. This is an email with Glenn Miller of the OPP about the availability of the OPP's PLT for Windsor. These are Windsor Police. You can go down to the email at -- there. Sorry. The last paragraph: "As we speak Brad is reaching out to Sgt. Mike Acton, PLT if he could have his resources immediately deployed to Comber as its anticipated those in attendance will be leaving at 1000 hrs..." So were the OPP PLT able to reach the protesters before they set up the blockade?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Ultimately, there were OPP PLT deployed to Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I think you told us this summer that they had some success.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you expand upon that or elaborate on that?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know why, when they succeeded in opening a lane or a couple of lanes, those lanes would then subsequently reclose or be blockaded again.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah. Now, I want to move ahead to the evening of February 7th, and there's an event that happens on the property of Assumption High School.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Can you describe that for us?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just jumping ahead a bunch in the story, but you mentioned wanting to keep protesters off private property as something that you had learned from the experience in Ottawa.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And once the blockade was cleared, my understanding is there was a decision made, within the Windsor Police Service, not to set up an alternative protest site on private property or sort of away from Huron Church Road, and that that was also sort of a lesson drawn from Ottawa.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So can you tell us, what that lesson is and why that decision was made?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. So there was no option to continue protesting in the way that had been the case once the blockade was cleared?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Yeah. Sort of going back in time to the establishment of the blockade, can you tell us how that unfolded the evening of the 7th?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And I understand early in the blockade a number of trucks were sort of stranded on the bridge; is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
How were they cleared? How and why?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
I want to pull up WPS000000356. This is an email from February 7th and it's regarding the Ambassador Bridge Corporation and the President of the Corporation. So you're not on it, but Gary Williams sent an email to looks like Mem Murphy. I don't know if you know who that is.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And it's essentially relaying a conversation that Gary Williams had with the President of the Ambassador Bridge Corp., and Marc says, "I will forward to degraaf and Crowley to deal with. Thanks for the heads up." So first of all, did you get that email and sort of deal with it?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Do you know why they thought Windsor Police was blocking the bridge?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And how -- was this your only sort of contact with the company or did the Ambassador Bridge Corporation, you know, weigh in or sort of get in touch with the Windsor Police throughout that week?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Do you know if anyone -- do you know if Chief Mizuno or Deputy Chief Bellaire did?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
No. And how about just, again, generally speaking, other interests, unions, there was some evidence this morning about Stellantis, this new EV battery manufacturer, I think, but what was the sort of economic pressure like from the businesses in Windsor?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So is it fair to say, I mean, you were aware from reading the news that this was having an impact, but you weren't personally aware of pressure being inserted on the Windsor Police Service to ---
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. I'd like to go to WPS000000609. So move ahead to Wednesday, February 9th. This is an email from you to Jen Crosby and Inspector DeGraaf, saying, "I was asked by Jay to put something together to present to the OPP for a request for 100 officers to assist and include how, why, what, etc[etera]..." And further down in that paragraph, "The 100 officer request does not include POU." And so the attachment, which is the next number 610, and then so what I assume when you say I was asked by Jay, that's Deputy Chief Bellaire?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Sorry, I think you were writing that. If we can just pull that back up?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
You were writing that -- you sent that email.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so you -- you're the one who spearheaded kind of putting together, okay, here's the numbers we're going to request and here's how they're going to be used; is that right?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And just so I -- I want to make sure I understood correctly, it was McDonell who suggested the hundred officer figure to you?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And so this document that we're looking at on the screen is -- was the plan for how you're going to use the hundred officers?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And if we could just scroll down, just so you see all of it.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
We saw in the covering email that this doesn't include POU Units. Why would you have left those out of this request?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
And so this exchange is between -- this arises as a result of your discussion with Supt. McDonell but you’re aware, on the same day, Chief Mizuno sent letters to Minister Jones, the Solicitor General in Ontario, and to Bill Blair, Minister Blair; correct?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So -- and again, just so we understand, on February 9th, Chief Mizuno did not consult you or make you aware that she was writing to those two politicians asking for 100 officers.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. Now, if we could pull up WPS000000827. And so apart from seeing the letters, do you remember any discussion with Chief Mizuno or Deputy Chief Bellaire at the time about those -- that correspondence to Sylvia Jones or Bill Blair?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
So I’m showing you an email, and again, you’re not on this email, but it’s an email in which Commissioner Carrique of the OPP is writing to Commissioner Lucki of the RCMP, and it’s subsequent to Chief Mizuno’s emails -- letters to the ministers. It says: "Chief Pam Mizuno and I had an opportunity to discuss the attached correspondence. Currently, Windsor Police does not require the deployment of additional police officers from the OPP or the RCMP." And so what I’m trying to understand is, do you know why the about-face? I mean that morning, Chief Mizuno had said, “We need 100 officers,” sent the letters directly to the ministers, and then that evening, it’s -- according to Commissioner Carrique’s email, it’s -- everything’s fine.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Okay. And we heard this morning from Mayor Dilkens that there might have been some issue or confusion over going to the OPP and the RCMP, and that the proper channel is to go to the OPP first. Was that something that you were made aware of around this time?
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Deputy Chief. Commissioner, as I believe you know, the balance of the examination will be completed by my colleague, Guillaume. I don’t -- we’re sort of 15 minutes prior to the break; I don’t know if you’d like Guillaume to start now or take the break early.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Thank you, Deputy Chief.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
None, Commissioner.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
That's correct, Commissioner. Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel. This is just to formally enter 286 documents by way of bulk entry, which is actually the sort of combination of a couple of weeks of lists. We are playing catch-up. Objections were moved, they are being dealt with. These documents are largely sort of municipal and provincial documents, including documents produced by the Governments of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia; the institutional report for the Government of Manitoba and Saskatchewan; and several witness statements as well. And it was circulated to the parties -- the final list was circulated recently, and they will be entered as exhibits today.
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Eric Brousseau, Counsel (POEC)
Good morning, Mr. Commissioner. Eric Brousseau, Commission Counsel. Just very briefly before we get going with the next witness. I'm just going to formally bulk enter a number of documents that were on lists in several categories. The first being 28 documents, which were the subject of objections, which were worked out amongst counsel. They are HRF, OPP, OPS, City of Ottawa, and several Commission documents. The second is a list of largely, but not exclusively, Federal Government documents, which was circulated to the parties on November 9th. And objections were dealt with, were removed, and that's a total of 1,766 documents. The third is a list, again, of largely Federal Government documents, but as well as a number of others, which was sent on November 14th. Objections were removed and dealt with, and that's another 819 documents. And the fourth, as the parties were advised this morning, is the affidavit of Superintendent Bernier, which was circulated by counsel for OPS on Monday. No objections were received, no parties sought leave to cross-examine on it, and the parties were advised that it was being admitted today. And with that done, I'll let Mr. Cameron take the floor.