Alyssa Tomkins
Alyssa Tomkins spoke 249 times across 18 days of testimony.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I’m going to object. Counsel, can you please provide more information?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I don’t see the document as saying that whatsoever.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
M’hm.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Mr. Commissioner, the witnesses have said they don’t recall this meeting. So unless my friend can contextualize or maybe help them remember what meeting it was, just putting statements to them when they’ve said they don’t remember being there, is not really going to be of much assistance to the Commission.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I think the councillors need to understand a bit more about the document, that it’s notes from a meeting taken by the OPS and maybe tr to help them recall the meeting.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Can we show the witnesses the document? Oh, there we are.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Alyssa Tomkins for the City of Ottawa. Happy news to everybody, all of the areas which I had hoped to cover have been covered through the examinations today.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
The document number is OTT00030030.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes, it’s OTT00030030.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
In the end, M. Aprin asked to testify in English.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
It was a last minute change, but Commission counsel was made aware.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And agreeable. Thank you, Mr. Schoenholz.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Alyssa Tomkins, counsel for the City. The good news is most of my questions have also been canvassed. Mr. Arpin, one of the things you mentioned was evidence of -- that trucks had moved, so I just want to take you to some photos and have you identify them for the Commissioner. So if we could bring up document OTT00030060. Perhaps while it's coming up, Mr. Arpin, can you explain what these photos are and who took them?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I think that looks like Bank, personally.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
The ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Apologies.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Mr. Arpin, can you provide further clarification for the Commissioner on the timing of the pictures?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes, that’s helpful. Just in terms of if you can situate the Commissioner, and I think what he’s referring to is the metadata will in fact reveal the dates that these pictures were taken. I’m asking the witness to provide evidence to the Commissioner on his knowledge as to when these pictures were taken.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Can we scroll to the next photo, please? Can you identify where this is, Mr. Arpin?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Can we look at the next photo, please? Can you identify ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Next page, please?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Can you identify this photo, Mr. Arpin?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Next photo, please. Mr. Arpin, can you identify this location?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I think that’s all the photos and all of my questions for you, Mr. Arpin. Thank you very much.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sorry, Counsel, just for clarity, Saturday is the 29th. I just don't want the witness to be confused.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you, Commissioner. Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel for the City of Ottawa. Mr. Ayotte, I just have a few questions today. You had mentioned in your evidence that there was a document that reflected the direction to By-law or to the EOC -- through the EOC on January 29th. I'm just going to take you to that for the record.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So if we could turn up document OTT00001270. And if we could just scroll -- next page, please. Under number three, under section updates, there's a comment from a J. Gravelle. Who's J. Gravelle; do you know?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And it says here, "(BLRS) were experiencing issues; a perimeter/red zone has been established; if BLRS are required to enter that zone, as directed by the NCRCC, they will be provided Police escort." And then we have a comment from K. Cochrane. Can you remind the Commissioner who is K. Cochrane?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And she states, "Police advising BLRS to withdraw services if they are encountering concerns; will provide escorts on an as-needed basis." Is this the direction to which you were referring earlier?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. There was a couple incidents discussed last week in the evidence involving the Chateau Laurier and the Rideau Centre, and I was just hoping you could provide the Commissioner with additional information on that. So starting with the Chateau Laurier, are you familiar with the concern that was raised?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Can you explain to the Commissioner what happened and what the City's follow-up was?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you, Mr. Ayotte. And in relation to the Rideau Centre incident, it might be helpful if we bring up some -- the email correspondence. If someone could turn up document OTT00008284? So this is your -- an email exchange between you and Councillor Fleury. Do you recall this exchange?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And we had seen your response, or the draft response prepared last week, but if we could scroll down and you could just explain the response to the Commissioner.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you, Mr. Ayotte. The last thing I was hoping you could assist the Commissioner with is the movement of trucks subsequent to the mayor's deal. You mentioned during your evidence that you went for a walk and observed the movement. If you could just explain to the Commissioner what you observed on your walk on the various streets?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. Those are my questions. Thank you very much, Mr. Ayotte.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
There’s solicitor/client privilege potentially here, so just try to be careful, please, counsel.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Mr. Commissioner, the one memo was legal information. Mr. White deliberately did not mark the document solicitor/client privilege because he didn’t intend privilege to apply. So there’s been no waiver. We have been very reasonable in our redactions where Mr. White was acting as part of the City leadership team -- well, not officially, but an important person providing strategic or tactical advice. We have released that where there’s legal advice, though there’s been no waiver.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
None, Mr. Commissioner.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We’ve been permissive. I think that’s the end of the discussion.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
No, Mr. Commissioner. The City consents.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I think the City of Ottawa had some time.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
No problem, Alyssa Tomkins; counsel for the City of Ottawa.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Councillor Deans, am I correct that your evidence was, that the first time you heard that resources were being held up was because Chief Sloly did not have a plan for the resources, was when Mr. Kanellakos said it on Monday?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Mr. Commissioner, can I have permission to take the witness to her witness summary to refresh her memory?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Can we please bring up document WTS.00000010? And Councillor Deans, this is your witness summary?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
You reviewed the summary and had an opportunity to make any changes that you wanted?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And you adopted it this morning, in fact?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So if we could just go to the bottom of the third page, and the last complete sentence states: “According to Councillor Deans, there is a possibility that resources were being held up because Chief Sloly did not have a plan for the use of the resources.” Councillor, you’ll agree that in fact this is something that you suggested during your interview with Commission counsel and not something that you heard for the first time during Mr. Kanellakos’ evidence?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good afternoon. Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel for the City of Ottawa.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Interim Chief Bell, I want to start by having a quick chat about intelligence and planning. And I've heard you mention a number of times today the behaviour that was not anticipated was the behaviour of the protestors in relation to the community, the actions vis-à-vis the community. Just to clarify for the record, what are the behaviours that were unanticipated?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you so much. And on the issue of the potential closure of Wellington Street, am I correct that the reason Command requested a legal opinion on the ability to close the streets is that they had never closed Wellington Street or downtown before to protesters?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Correct. Correct. In terms of why was the legal opinion obtained in this instance, and I'm just asking whether it's because it was not the general practice of the police to close streets to protests in Ottawa?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And I agree with your characterization. What I was getting at was indeed the practice. So it was not a practice that was generally engaged in. Had it been engaged in the past?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. Now my understanding is that you were present when the City Solicitor David White provided a briefing on the possibility of obtaining an injunction?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
It would be January 30th. We can bring up -- I was going to lead into another point, but we can bring it up. OPS00004878.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
At the very least, you received this email of the Command briefing; am I correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And just -- I just wanted to highlight some of the concerns that Mr. White had put forward. If we can go to page 2? And I just note that the third bullet down he noted that "injunction normally associated with labor disputes." Then two down from that, "how [the] injunction will be enforced will be important to outline." Then if we can scroll right down, right at the end ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Well, no, I was just ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
--- going to ask you to confirm that these were, in fact, concerns that Mr. White brought to your attention, to OPS's attention?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And the last few points I wanted to highlight were that an injunction is a more assertive step and that it might aggravate the situation. That's a concern that you are familiar with?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And that the injunction might give a platform or an outlet to protesters.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And if we can now go to document OPS I think it's 4 0s, maybe 000004927. Maybe four, sorry. These are scribe notes, if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Oh.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Do you remember a briefing to the RCMP and the OPP? It would be a Teams meeting on January 31st.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
If we go to page 3, it's indicated SB.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Do you think that's you?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I just wanted to -- if we can scroll up now to page 2? Here, if we can stop here. Again, talking about an injunction, so I believe BL, is that Commissioner Luckie?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And it states: "Concern. If injunction, now it's an official movement to another stage. This will involve the whole country. Anything official will spark a national response." (As read) Do you recall that concern being expressed by Commissioner Luckie?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And if we can scroll down a bit further, we have TC. Is that Commissioner Carrique?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And concern with injunction, you would have a legal obligation to enact it, continue to build, for -- I believe it's supposed to be injunction -- mass arrests and then removal of. And I believe there's a comment above. I apologize. I missed it. The fifth bullet: "BL is spot on. Must remain cautious. This is local. Careful not to become national or international." (As read) Then if we can go down to page 3, BL again, third bullet, "De-escalation, negotiation, up to legal for injunction but better not to have it." Do you recall Commissioner Luckie saying that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And then we'll just go to another document, OPS00005194. And this is another command briefing?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
You received this command briefing?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
This -- so it's sent February 1st, but I believe that it's referring to events on January 31st.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And if we can just go to page 2, one bullet after -- or sorry, after the redaction, if we can -- here we have what I believe to be a summary of the call which confirms that both Brenda Luckie and Tom Carrique did not seem to be in favour of going the injunction route, and that’s what the OPS took from that briefing, correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Now, I just want to talk you to about the negotiations between the City and the protestors. And if we could just bring up OPS00008418? And I'm not sure whose notes these are. Are you aware?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Well, we'll go to them and see if it refreshes your memory. So on page 4, again, there's a redaction, and then it says -- and this, I believe, follows the correspondence that Commission counsel took you to where there was an exchange from John Ferguson to Mark Patterson, and then you followed up. And it states here: "Redaction. One of the biggest advocates, organizers, demonstrators negotiating with PLT members last night. Going to be meeting with Steve K, with City -- wanted to meet with him -- win situation -- told will be some trucks that will be moved." So the idea that trucks would be moving came from the police, not the City; is that correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I believe it was the 8th.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And if we could go back, I see, "Superintendent -- it says Bell -- will have update in two seconds." I believe that’s you.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And then we get an update from Superintendent Patterson, "Steve K. assigned to work with PLT members to negotiate with Trans Mountain." So I assume that’s Mr. Kanellakos?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Agreed. I was more making a little joke. Okay. So then we're going to follow through. So in terms of -- we'll go down to your notes and those are at OPS00014525. And just in the interests of time, your evidence is that on the 12th, you got an update from the former Chief Sloly about the City's negotiations, and it was told to you to be highly confidential?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
If we can go to page 52, just quickly? So here we have -- this is a meeting with the chief. If you want to scroll up and see that it's the 12th, we can.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, no problem.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah. So this is the quick update that you got from the chief. Then if we can skip ahead to page 64, and this is the meeting at noon. And I just wanted to scroll down a little bit.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
No, you're quite right. It's the next day.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
It is the 13th.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I apologize. This is the meeting at noon on the 13th. So this is -- if we can just scroll down. One thing I wanted -- keep scrolling -- the comment here, "Premier is very supportive of the action." Do you have any recollection of who said that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And then if we can scroll down a bit more, "Two core scenarios. What is the outcome of the new footprint? Are we able to take out the remainders?" Do you recall this being discussed?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And then if we can just go down? This is a briefing from the chief, and is it just you and the chief at that point?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
It's coming from the chief, though? And the chief ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And it's clear from the direction from the chief that you've noted is to maintain our concept of operation, that’s correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now, if we can just scroll down a little bit more? We have another meeting at 2:30. This, you're starting to get into more of the logistics.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And under number 4, there's an arrow that says, "Elgin to Lyon is what is being looked at"?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And then it says, "At something footprint. Can you assist?"
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And then there's Rideau and Sussex has been developed, but the next bullet says, "Looking at how we can manage a reduction of the footprint"; is that correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Now, there's one other meeting that I didn’t see in your notes, but I'm going to take you to, because I think you were there. It refers to Bell. So it's OPS00011039. And maybe these one are scribe notes. Can we check the last page?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes, February 13th, and if we can go to page 6? And if we scroll up, we'll see the notes are from the -- there's a -- oh, there's Vicky Nelson, the scribe. If we can scroll up, we'll just see that there's notes from the call with the City at noon.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Then it appears there was a call with Commissioner Carrique. And then there appears to be another discussion, the one I'm interested in at -- on page 6 and it says “negotiating update meeting”. And this is where, if we go about seven bullets down, we see: “Bell all indication[s] that the city got through the negotiating the groups is trying to separate from the other group - we do not expect backlash” Can you explain what that meant, if you can?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And then Deputy Chief Ferguson says: “this does not change the operations. We can make this work to our advantage.” Do you recall that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
“Those remaining behind will be there [by] their […] choice JOHN - this is happening at 3pm. John Steinbeck; I assume? Now, after the reaction, we have Bernier. Is that Supt. Bernier?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So when my friend put to you that there was no discussion with Supt. Bernier about how this worked and with his plan, we actually see here there’s a meeting with him and Supt. Bernier says: “the plan aligns with what we planned and accelerates it. No concerns” Do you see that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
But there is a discussion here about the plan, and at the time, he expresses no concerns about how it’s going to work with his plan; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And in the end, the agreement -- well, unfortunately or fortunately, the fact is, the agreement did not have an impact -- not have the impact on reducing the footprint that it was intended to?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And the move had very little impact on operational planning?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. But I’ll just put it to you in your witness summary, that was your evidence.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you. I just wanted to contextualize that statement. So thank you so much for your time today, Interim Chief Bell.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good afternoon, Acting Superintendent. Alyssa Tomkins for the City of Ottawa. Luckily for everyone, most of the issues I was going to canvass with you have already been covered, so I'm just going to take you to one document, and it's OPP I think five zeroes 529.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So we see at the top that you're sending an email complimenting Diana Hampson, and I'll obviously go down to the email of which you're compliments refer to. But if you could just perhaps explain to the Commissioner who is Diana Hampson?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Excellent. So I wanted to look at if we scroll down further, we'll see the actual email that -- is it -- I don’t want to mess up the rank -- Inspector Hampson or Staff Sergeant?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sorry. I did the best with ranks.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay, Diana. So we see here right at the top of the page -- so it's January 31st of this year, and she's sending thoughts, it looks like, to two persons of the Ottawa Police. Is that -- do you see that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And she provides advice based on experience. And I just wanted to take you through some of them and get you to confirm whether it's consistent with your own experience.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So if we can just go down to the second bullet, and it deals with injunctions. And she notes that: "Recent academic literature shows why injunctions are not the best solution in resolving civil unrest, and negotiated solutions provide more sustainable solutions. It puts the court at the centre of political conflict and puts us in a position to implement enforcement clauses which in this case, may not be feasible (towing, numbers arrested). Judicial will impede ability to mediate and negotiate towards resolution." So is this consistent with your own experience?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah. And just to go to the fifth bullet: "Our experience in civil injunctions serve to inflame the group. They burn them on delivery, ignore them, and force police to contempt arrest authority where charges are eventually dropped. RCMP in BC at the Wet'suwe'ten event have had some success with conditions imposed. I suggest they can provide suggestions. Kyle Freissen, (now Surrey) legal counsel, has vast recent experience with solidarity demonstrations and injunctions, and I suggest he would be happy to be consulted." So that’s something that she suggests to OPS. Is it consistent with your experience as well?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah. So you'll agree though that there's complexities around injunctions that go far beyond the legal issues and they take in a whole socio ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
--- dynamic?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And these were concerns that the OPP was expressing to OPS January 31st?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Diana, yes.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And that you said deserved to throw in her file in a commendment.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you for your time, Acting Superintendent. Those are my questions.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
No, I’ll clarify.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We’ve agreed to swap. I just have a couple of clarifications that I anticipate being quite brief, and I will cede the remainder of my time, should there be any, which I hope there is, to my friend, counsel for the Ottawa Police Service.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So it’s Alyssa Tomkins, for the record. Counsel for the City of Ottawa. As I said, Commissioner, just a couple of little precisions. Not much from us today. So just in terms of the number of resources on the ground, I’m just going to take you to the witness summary for Supt. Abrams. This one is in evidence. So it’s WTS00000013. And it’ll be page 9, clerk. So if we could just scroll down a bit? And, Commissioner, if you see, in the paragraph starting with “After the February 9th meeting,” when we get to, I think it’s a very long sentence. So the second sentence: “By February 14[th], OPP support to OPS had increased from 60 officers per day to 150 per day. On February 15, Superintendent Abrams was informed that 400 additional OPP members would arrive by February 17.” So just in terms of the resources on the ground, do you have any basis to contradict Supt. Abrams here?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. I don’t think much turns on it. We just wanted to track that. Are those charts -- were they provided to your counsel?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Well I’ll assume ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
--- that your counsel is going to deal with this issue.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We just want to know what the numbers are, like I said, whose evidence to prefer. So we’ll leave that to your counsel to clarify and explain whether or not these numbers are accurate. So one more small precision.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
In terms of the letter from the Mayor and Chair Deans, I don’t think I need to bring it up, we all -- you recall which letter we’re talking about? The one to the Solicitor General.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We just wanted to clarify, so when a copy of that letter was forwarded to you, was that the first time you had received the request from Chief Sloly?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. But in terms of the sort of larger ask, you did not receive a letter from Chief Sloly that reflected the same ask as is in the letter that the Mayor and Chair Deans sent to the Solicitor General?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. That’s perfect. Thank you so much, Commissioner. That’s ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I think it’s more a request from the Coalition to go later, but I said we’re happy to go any time.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I’m just checking if it’s morning or afternoon. Good morning, Mr. Barber. My name is Alyssa Tomkins, counsel for the City of Ottawa. I just have a few questions for you today. We saw earlier in this proceeding that you had texts with Kim Ayotte, who is the general manager of Emergency and Protective Services of the City?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I’m just going to put them on the screen ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
--- to assist you in that regard. So if we could bring up document OTT, I think it’s 00030057. And these are the -- the text messages were produced by Mr. Ayotte, so I believe Chris, protestor, is you.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes. So if we could just scroll down to the third page. And I just want to talk to you a little bit about your role in moving the trucks and how far it got. So if we get to here starting with this exchange, we’re not at February 15th, which I believe is the Tuesday, at 8:30. And Kim is asking you how it’s gone moving the trucks effectively and, in particular, how many big trucks you were able to move. So if we could keep scrolling, please. Just the large trucks and not the pickups or cars, and then I believe this is your response, if we keep scrolling. Yeah, can you confirm that you provided this information to Mr. Ayotte; that it’s accurate and that -- any elaboration that you see fit?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now, when you say 23, what happened to the rest of the 40?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Empire?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, Antrim truck stop, yeah.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. That was my next question was about the trucks leaving downtown. Now, after this, if we keep scrolling you -- we are -- it refers, I note in passing, to you tiring yourself out, so again, your weight loss. Sorry; if you could scroll up Mr. Clerk, apologies. So then Kim writes to you about running into trouble with any trucks, and then if we can scroll down to your response. I think keep scrolling. Yeah, so if you can just confirm that you wrote this to Mr. Ayotte, and then just provide a little more context for the Commissioner.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Steve Kanellakos?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. When you say, “Something fell apart”; you have no further evidence on that for the Commissioner?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. That’s -- those are all my questions, thank you very much Mr. Barber.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
All of the areas upon which we had intended to question have been canvassed. Thank you, Commissioner.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Alyssa Tomkins for the City of Ottawa. The City has no questions for this witness. Thank you.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Alyssa Tomkins for the City. The City has no questions for this witness.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Objection.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Objection. Chair Deans testified that she (indiscernible). On cross-examination, I put her witness summary to her. Sorry; I put -- Chair Deans initially testified that she was unaware that there was no operational plan. On cross-examination, I put her witness summary to her. She states in the witness summary that -- and it was her that suggested that one of the reasons that the resources weren’t coming is because the Chief lacks an operational plan. So I think this whole discussion about municipal politics and the Mayor lacks foundation in the evidence, and I don't want to mislead the witness.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good evening, Mr. Di Tommaso. My name is Alyssa Tomkins. I am one of the lawyers representing the City of Ottawa.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Now you testified earlier that the Police Board of jurisdiction is in the best position to determine whether adequate and effective police services are being provided; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
You also testified that the Board has the exclusive responsibility for the oversight of the Chief and ensuring adequate and effective police services are being provided in the municipality; do I have that right?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And what I want to follow up on initially is how this relates to Section 3(2) of the Police Services Act, and I think you addressed it with one of my friends, but that section, of course, provides that, "The Solicitor General shall, [...] monitor police forces to ensure that adequate and effective police services are provided at the municipal and provincial levels." Correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sure. So the Police Services Act is at document COM00000, I think that's 5 0s 819. And page 7, Mr. Clerk. So if we just scroll down, right there. So 3(2), right under duties and powers of Solicitor General. We start right away with, "The Solicitor General shall, [...] monitor police forces to ensure that adequate and effective police services are provided at the municipal and provincial levels."
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And I put to you that the Supreme Court of Canada has said that the Solicitor General has a duty to ensure that the Board provides adequate and effective services in a municipality.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, we'll deal with that in submission. Okay. But you don't have any reason to contradict that understanding?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now one of the ways that the Solicitor General fulfills this duty, as I understand your evidence, is through a Police Services Advisor; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Right. And we'll come to that, of course. But I want to focus right now on the Police Services Advisor. So we looked earlier at the February 5th meeting of the Ottawa Police Services Board, and it was the one you were texting with Commissioner Carrique about. So if we could bring up the document ONT, and I think it's 00001115. If you can just scroll down, I'm going to focus on the first four bullets -- oh, if we can actually go to the top first. So this is -- we've discussed earlier, you discussed, I should say, that Lindsay Gray was the solicitor, and we see that this is a Board meeting summary note for the Inspector General of Policing and that was the gentleman that you said reported to you?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now if we -- so this is her report. So if we can scroll down, the first -- the four bullets. So we have, "Chair Deans commented that the city is under siege and this is a threat to democracy, a nation-wide insurrection; the current situation is "madness" and stated that there needs to be a concrete plan to end this now And this gets important here. " Chair Deans stated that the meeting was called to ask the chief one question – in accordance with the mandate for the delivery of adequate and effective policing, she asked the chief if he [still] believes he is [...] able to provide, given the fluid nature of the occupation, adequate and effective policing to the city of Ottawa. If not, the Chair asked what legal authorities, what resources from the board or what assistance the board can provide at this time." And the Chief starts answering, and he says, "The Chief committed to lay out where the service is at and what their plan is. He did comment that there is nothing in the definition of adequate and effective policing that could resolve a city under siege, a threatened democracy, a nation-wide insurrection. He further commented that a police service is not created/contemplated to deal with a city under siege and as such, there is not necessarily a concrete plan for such a scenario as described." Now I don't think we have time to read the whole document, but you'll agree the Chief does not say yes. He does not say, "I'm able to provide adequate and effective police services."
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, so what I want to understand though is that this report was provided to your subordinate. And I’m wondering, did alarm bells not start ringing at the Ministry?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And at the same time, by this point, you were aware that by February 2nd, former Chief Sloly has stated that he doesn’t believe there’s a policing solution.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So your department is getting this report at the same time he’s saying that. And I ask again, are alarm bells not ringing?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sir, you testified that the Police Service Board is in the best place to assess whether there’s adequate or effective police services being provided.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We see here that the Chief was asked on point if he could, and he didn’t answer yes. And we can go to an internal OPB document. Let’s bring that up. Chair Deans’ speaking notes from this meeting. OPB0000655.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, OPB, as in bravo, 00000655. And these are Chair Deans’ speaking notes from that. And if we scroll down, ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Chair Diane Deans.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. But these are from the minutes. So I’m just going to scroll down further. And the Chair says: “I called the meeting to ask the Chief if he was still able to provide adequate and effective policing to residents of this city. The Chief confirmed that he could not. Which was very troubling to hear. The Board requested what additional resources he needed to restore calm and protest residents.” So that was what was stated by her, and what your staff member reported. And she didn’t say no, but she did not say yes. You’ll agree?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sir, you testified earlier that those resources were contingent on the existence of an operational plan.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Sir, I put to you that what the Chief described was that with the state of the occupation, he called it a near siege, a threat to democracy, that with the occupation in place, that he was unable to provide adequate and effective policing. And that’s noted in the report that went to your subordinate.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
They were contingent on the provision of a plan though?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And we looked at text messages earlier that by February 6th, you acknowledged -- or it was in the text to you, that there was a lack of a plan to dismantle the operation by Chief Sloly; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now one thing I want to look at, because I’m running out of time, is questions, because we see the Board is floundering. The Board is asking we need -- “We don’t know what authorities we have in the event there’s not adequate and effective policing.” So ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And what I’m going to put to you though is that there’s a provision of the Act, and it’s section 9, and I’m going to suggest to you that that section is what deals with a situation where a Police Board or a Chief determines that he’s unable to provide adequate and effective policing. You’ll agree?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Now what I want to understand, so the Board was asking lots of questions of your subordinates. And if we go first to ONT00001111. And if we scroll down a bit? I just wanted to draw this to your attention, that it goes to Kenneth Weatherill. And if I’m not mistaken, that’s the gentleman that’s the Inspector General ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
--- of Policing? And I just wanted to show you that he notes that these are very good questions. And if we scroll down, we see that they’re from the Ottawa Police Services Board looking for guidance from the Solicitor General.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I agree with you, but let’s go to the answer to these questions. So if we can go to the response ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I will. I’m ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
If I could just have a bit more time? I think this is an important point.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
ONT00001118. And this is the response that was provided. And I’m going to put to you that nowhere in this document is section 9 mentioned.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
This is the response, if you look at the top, and you are going to have to take my word, but it says “Q&A to support Ottawa PSB meeting re: board rules and responsibilities”. And if we look at the list of questions that Mr. Weatherill said were good questions, these are the questions, and these appear to be the responses. They’re produced from your department. So if we scroll through, and I am short on time, I’m cognizant, but what we see is that section 9 is never suggested. And I want to understand, why was that never suggested?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We started this examination by talking about the duty on the Solicitor General to ensure that the Board is providing adequate and effective policing. It was very clear from these questions that the Board was having trouble understanding what to do in what we’ve all described as an unprecedented situation. Why was section 9 not suggested to the Board as an option in light of the fact that the Chief could not confirm -- as Lindsey Gray stated in her note, the Chief did not confirm that he was able to provide adequate and effective services?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
So I put to you that it was never mentioned because Ontario didn’t want it to happen?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And I put to you that Ontario didn’t want the Province to publicly take responsibility for the situation in Ottawa?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Those are my questions. Thank you.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
The City has no questions for this witness. All of the areas were covered by Commission Counsel. Thank you. Alyssa Tomkins, though, for the record. Sorry about that.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good afternoon, almost evening. My name is Alyssa Tomkins. I’m one of the lawyers representing the City of Ottawa. I just have one quick question for you today, and it’s to the Clerk. If our Clerk could bring up document SSM. ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
We’ve had a lot of Commissioners until this point, so now we’re getting multiple clerks. So SSM.CAN.00008508. So if we can just scroll down to the bottom of page 2 just so the witness can see what we’re talking about? So there’s an email from Rob Stewart and it’s attaching the engagement proposal, I’m sure you’re familiar with. And if we scroll up, we see Ms. Thomas forwards it to you. And then if we keep scrolling, we see an email from you to Katie Telford. And it says: “I would like to green light this today if possible…” So is that -- were you wanting to -- my question is just were you wanting to greenlight it?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So wait, you were neutral as to the engagement proposal yourself?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. No, that’s the clarification I was looking for, so thank you very much, Clerk, and those are my questions.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you, Commissioner, I’ll do my best.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Minister, my name is Alyssa Tomkins; I’m one of the lawyers representing the City of Ottawa. So I will try to be quick. I do want to take you to a couple documents, though. So first document, Mr. Clerk, SSM.NSC.CAN00002993. So this is one of the texts between you and your Chief of Staff. And it’s just this comment -- so if, we see there a date below, Thursday, February 10th, but I’m actually looking at one of the comments above. And I believe if we scroll up -- because I believe these are produced by your Chief of Staff, so your texts are the ones on the left, and theirs in white.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And there’s a comment that says: “And it’s not really going to help in Ottawa unless the opp take over here” I just want to know what you meant by the OPP taking over?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And if the next document we can go to, SSM.NSC.CAN00003140. More text messages between you and your Chief of Staff. Now here, it’s just forwarding tweets. But there’s a tweet being forwarded from Robert Fife, that says: “This is what Ontario government sources have said was coming....ChiefSloly pushed aside to allow OPP/RCMP to take charge of 16 days of chaos in downtown....” I think you then forward a text from Glen McGregor, “Maybe the OPP will help...” I’m just wondering, particularly with respect to the text from Mr. Fife, the -- he’s hearing from Ontario government sources that OPP and RCMP are coming. I was just wondering, sir, whether you ever heard anything to that effect from the Province?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. No, those are -- those are my questions. Thank you very much, sir.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I’m going to object. This is again Alyssa Tomkins. Chair Deans, in her witness statement, stated that she knew that there was not -- that there was a concern that there wasn’t a plan, and my friend keeps putting that to witnesses to try to get them to agree when her witness summary, which she adopted on cross and confirmed, states expressly that she was aware ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
In fact, her statement suggests that she’s the one that suggested ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I just want to be careful because it’s an important point and my friend keeps putting it to witnesses.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Commissioner, Alyssa Tomkins for the City of Ottawa. I’m very sad because the witness in fact once taught me cross-examination for a week at intensive trial advocacy and I was desperately hoping to try an impeachment on him, but my areas of questioning have all been canvassed. So I’m going to cede my time to the City of Windsor. And I just wanted to let her know before she steps.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good evening, Mr. LeBlanc, my name is Alyssa Tomkins, I’m one of the counsel representing the City of Ottawa. I just have a couple of questions for you this evening, so – I’m going to follow-up on a document that Commission Counsel took you, the email from Ralph Goodale, so if we could bring that up; it’s SSM.CAN.00006594. Good. And if we can just scroll down. So it’s really the last sentence of the first paragraph, but we’ll start once sentence prior: “Granted the volume of the protest in Ottawa was greater and came without as much warning, but the City of Ottawa and the OPS have proven themselves incapable of grappling with this problem.” And I get that’s not your statement, it’s his, so I’m going to park it. But it’s the last sentence: “And it is now the duty of the responsible senior authority - i.e., the Public Safety Minister of ONTARIO under PROVINCIAL policing legislation - to rectify that problem, including talking control, if and as necessary.” So the follow-up question I had was, and my understanding is the public safety of the Minister of Ontario is in fact the Solicitor-General of Ontario; is that your understanding as well?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Now, all I want to know is, are you aware if anyone from the Federal Government followed up with Ontario to see if in fact they were going to discharge the duty that Mr. Goodale is talking about here.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
No, and I wasn’t intending to ask you about that, I was just asking if you’re aware of any interactions by your colleagues or by yourself with Ontario along this line.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. That’s helpful, and that’s all I have. Thank you, Minister.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Happy news again, Mr. Commissioner. Alyssa Tomkins for the City of Ottawa. We will not be using our time today. I have ceded it to the Canadian Constitution Foundation.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
The City has ceded its time to the Government of Canada. Alyssa Tompkins for the record.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And I just want to be fair to the witness -- sorry. It’s PB.NSC.CAN.00007734. That’s the document. And I’ll just ask them if this is something they recognize and whether they know if it was shared. Just on that page. So I take it from shaking your heads, no. We need an audible answer.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good evening. My name is Alyssa Tomkins. I’m counsel for the City of Ottawa. I just want to ask you a couple of questions about some comments in the Witness Summary. So, Mr. Clerk, if we could bring up the Witness Summary? It’s WTS, however many zeros, 83. And if we could go down to page 4? The bottom of page 4. So I’ll start by directing my questions to Mr. Clow, because these comments are attributed to him, but obviously the others can add in. So there’s a comment here, Mr. Clow noted that: “…the City was clearly struggling to manage the occupation and that this was reflected in most conversations, in media reporting and reaction from residents.” So Mr. Clow, did you understand that the response to the protest was a police-led operation?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So you understand that the City cannot direct law enforcement as to operational matters?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So in terms though of it -- you understand it was managed by the police though?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So the police, you understand there’s a Police Services Board that is independent from the City?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Okay. I just wanted to be sure that you weren’t suggesting the City, itself, could be doing more?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And if we could just go to the next page, please? And again, it’s you, Mr. Clow, referring to a meeting you had. And I think if we were to actually look at the footnote, I won’t take you to it, but I think it’s February 3rd, and it’s noted that one issue identified in the notes of this meeting was the fact that the request from Ottawa did not come from Ontario and it was unclear whether provincial resources had first been exhausted. So this is prior to the letter from the Mayor. So we’re in the first week. And I just -- Commissioner Lucki and Minister Blair have both testified that it’s in fact very common for the City of -- for OPS to reach out to the RCMP directly because of Ottawa’s status as the National Capital, and I just want to make sure, you don’t have any evidence to contradict that this was actually quite a normal process at this point?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Counsel had discussed that I would actually start on behalf of the City, Mr. Commissioner, if that's acceptable.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good evening, Mr. Weatherill, thank you for making yourself available for us on seemingly quite short notice. My name's Alyssa Tomkins. I am counsel for the City of Ottawa in this case. So I just have a couple of issues that I want to discuss with you flowing from your witness summary. So one of the issues you raise in there is the training that's available to members of the Police Services Board. So I just wanted to bring up the Police Services Act. If we can go to document COM, I think it's five zeros, 819.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Oh, sorry. Page 28 of that. So if we can just scroll down, Mr. Clerk. When we get to -- I just wanted the witness -- keep scrolling please. So this starts with section 31, which is titled Responsibilities of the Boards. And if we can keep scrolling down, we get to subsection (5), please. Oh, there we go. So the training of board members, and the Act provides that: "The board shall ensure that its members undergo any training that the Solicitor General may provide or require." Now, my understanding from your witness summary is that in fact the Solicitor General does not provide formal training, or has chosen not to. Is that correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. So maybe it will be easier if we just go to your witness summary. If we can go to WTS0000080, however many zeroes, sorry. I’m always unsure. If we can just go to page 2 and scroll down, please. Sorry, scroll up. So the paragraph that starts with: “The work of the Liaison Unit includes providing orientation materials for new police services board members. That said, SOLGEN does not provide formal training.” So that’s what you were referring to?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And so then I want to scroll down to the top of page 3. In this case -- so as I understand your evidence that in fact in this case the Board did request training from the advisor, Ms. Grey, on their responsibilities during this type of incident. And because it was during an event, you took the position that advisors were not provide this training in the middle of an incident? Do I understand correctly?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And I'm not going to go to that document because I took the Deputy Solicitor General to it, and we’ll -- the Commission already has the evidence as to what information was provided to the Board in terms of what authorities were available to them under the Act, and more importantly what was not provided. I note here that it says part of the rationale for not agreeing to provide training during the incident is that the OPSB had its own resources, significant experience through former Board members on City Council. Now, I just want to be clear on that. Surely you agree that the Board and the municipal council are separate and distinct entities?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. And they’re legally separate as a matter of law?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Now, you'll agree though that of these other resources available, other than the advisors of the Solicitor General, only one of those being the advisors of the Solicitor General has a statutory duty to ensure that the Board is providing adequate and effective policing in the municipality.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And nobody is disputing that. What I'm referring to is when the Board could go outside itself and seek assistance as they were doing in this case. They were seeking assistance from another body that has that duty and in fact the duty includes the duty to ensure that the Board is doing its job.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And maybe it’s just a matter of argument. That when they have these other resources that they can go to, and that’s fine and good. But it’s in the statute -- there’s one entity that’s supervising the Board. And I put to Mr. Di Tommaso and I’ll put it in argument that the Supreme Court of Canada has said that the Solicitor General has a duty to ensure that the Board provides adequate and effective police services in the municipality. So the other entities, former members -- they’re resources but they’re not resources that have themselves a statutory duty.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And obviously the municipality’s other role is in appointing or removing as the case may be members of the Board.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Right. Thank you. I have no further questions. And thank you for your time this evening.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Good afternoon, Prime Minister. My name's Alyssa Tomkins. I am counsel for the City of Ottawa. I just wanted to take you to a couple of statements on your witness summary to start. So if we could bring that up. It's WTS00000084, please, Mr. Clerk, and we'll be going to page 4. And just if we can scroll down to where we're talking about Challenges in Ottawa. So the first point you make is that: "...the lesson learned was not to let the trucks park because that makes it more difficult to remove them." And you: "...noted that decision-makers in Toronto and Quebec City heeded this lesson." Prime Minister, are you aware that since that time, the City of Ottawa, in preparation for two events, has indeed closed roads? So the City has learned that lesson as well. You'll agree?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. The second, about their resources, you state: "...that there appeared to be a breakdown of communication between OPS and the City..." And you stated: "It was unclear, for instance, whether the Mayor's request for additional police officers was made with the support of the OPS or the Ottawa Police Services Board." Now, are you talking about the letter that you received from Mayor Watson?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Well, I'm a bit short on time, but I'll put to you that the letter you received from the Mayor was co-singed by the Chair of the Ottawa Police Services Board. So by the time the letter came, it was clear it was from the OPSB as well; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Well, I can bring it up.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
I don't know that it serves us. I'll put to the record, and given my short time we'll deal with it after. And in terms of OPS, also, by that point -- well, why don't we go to the readout of the call. So the letter came, just to situate you, the letter came February 7th and the next day, on February 8th, you had a call with Mayor Watson. Do you remember that?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
But we'll bring up the readout. So it's SSM.CAN.NSC.00002837. Okay. And -- so there's nothing in here... Let's scroll down to page 2. ...that if we go through it, there's no concern expressed by you during this call that there's any uncertainty about whether OPS or the OPSB are aware of the resource request. So by this point, is that clear in your mind?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yes.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. No, I'm -- we'll -- I -- there is other evidence on that, I'm not going to take you to it, but I think you're saying that you were briefed on that but we couldn't rely on the evidence of those individuals here?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. But that concern was not expressed in this call to Mayor Watson, you'll agree?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah, and he responds about the police solution issue. So ---
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Okay. Well, we can debate the particularities of that point. This is the day after you received the letter, co-signed by the OPSB, and there's nothing on this call saying that there is concern that the OPS didn't provide that number.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Right. And we'll see the Mayor responds: "...one thing...was when he said it's not a police solution, but it is a police solution." So that's what the Mayor understood you to be expressing a concern about. And if we scroll down. Then we get to a discussion about Mr. Ford. And that's actually where I wanted to get to.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Yeah. So if we keep going, and -- oh, there we are. So you express that: "...the federal government will be there with the resources." And there's something about conflating. And I think you testified earlier about the source of the mandates, but you say: "...Doug Ford has been hiding from his responsibilities on it for political highlights as you highlighted, and important that we don't let them get away from that, and we intend to support on that." And the Mayor says: "If they keep dragging their feet, I'm happy to call them out. It’d be nice if we have something firmed up from the federal government to shame them. Ford didn’t even make an effort to come and see what’s going on.” So part of the reason that -- you’ll agree that part of the reason the Mayor was reaching out to the federal government directly was to give him additional ammunition to put pressure on the province; correct?
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
And all I’m saying is that when the Mayor went to both the province and the feds, he’s explaining to you here that one of the reasons he’s doing that because he’s also reached out to Ford, is that he’s hoping you’ll give him something so that he can also push on Ford. So he knows he has to go to the province, too.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
But you’ll agree that the Mayor was frustrated, as were you, that the province was not providing the resources they needed on an expedited basis.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
All right. Thank you very much, Prime Minister. I appreciate you answering my questions.
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Alyssa Tomkins, Counsel (Ott)
Thank you, Commissioner. Alyssa for the City. The City of Ottawa's role in responding to the Freedom Convoy was threefold. First, it sought to support the OPS as the lead agency in response to the protest. Second, maintain City services as much as possible, again, in coordination with police. And third, it exercised a convening function in terms of bringing people together at other levels of government, at both the political and official level. I'll remind the Commission what the City and Mayor cannot do, which is direct the police or the Police Services Board. City Council's oversight powers are extremely limited. They're limited to approving the police budget on a global basis and appointing four members to the Board, three councillors and one member of the public. Council did use its power to revoke an appointment in this case, as we've seen, when it removed Councillor Deans as Board Chair. We acknowledge the significant impact that the Freedom Convoy protests had on the citizens of Ottawa, on City services and on City staff. We submit there are five key questions that need to be addressed in response in particular to the Ottawa situation. We'll, of course, answer those questions in our written submissions, but for now, here are the issues. So one, did a lack of intelligence or lack of coordination among institutions responsible for collecting or analysing intelligence affect their response to the Freedom Convoy? Two, was there a delay in sending additional police resources to Ottawa, and if so, what caused or contributed to that delay? Third, was Windsor a or the priority, and if so, who was responsible for that decision? Fourth, if the lack of a plan or difficulties with achieving unified command caused delay, how could these issues have been addressed and resolved more quickly? In particular, what is the role of oversight bodies in such a situation, and in particular, what action could the Province have taken, if any, to end the protests in Ottawa sooner? And of course, here, we're referring to both the MTO and the Solicitor General in terms of discharging its obligation to ensure adequate and effective policing in Ottawa. The last one, number 5, is the role of negotiation and engagement with protesters in situations such as this, and the relationship between civilian authorities and police when participating in such discussions. So we'll have more to say on that in our written submissions. I'd like to thank you, Mr. Commissioner, Commission Counsel, and most of all, my friends, counsel for the other parties. Strange alliances formed and then unformed almost on a daily basis between the parties, but always with collegiality and cooperation between counsel. So thank you to all of you.